Discussion
Hi guys, my video recorder is dying, it will play tapes but recording has a an odd fault which makes recording programmes useless.
So I'm looking to buy something new. I could buy another VCR or a DVDR but I'm not so keen on old technology and the DVDR are still in two different formats and its not clear which on is going to win (like betamax and VHS).
So I've looked around and found this tivo. Its a harddisk recorder which learns what you like to watch and records it for you. Also you can set it to record series/your favourite programmes.
I tended to use my video as a time shifter ie I record a programme to watch later, it also allows me to skip adverts etc. eg eurosport MotoGP I can skip to the races.
I just wondered if any of you have got one of these machines and what you thought of it.
So I'm looking to buy something new. I could buy another VCR or a DVDR but I'm not so keen on old technology and the DVDR are still in two different formats and its not clear which on is going to win (like betamax and VHS).
So I've looked around and found this tivo. Its a harddisk recorder which learns what you like to watch and records it for you. Also you can set it to record series/your favourite programmes.
I tended to use my video as a time shifter ie I record a programme to watch later, it also allows me to skip adverts etc. eg eurosport MotoGP I can skip to the races.
I just wondered if any of you have got one of these machines and what you thought of it.
As I understand it you have to pay a subscrption to be able to use the clever features eg series linking etc.
Another good options would be to go for Sky Plus which gives you a combo Sky box plus (hence the name ;-) a hard disk recorder (which I think is based on Tivo). It does all the Tivo stuff such as learning your shows, series link etc.
The other advantage is that you can record one sky channel and watch another which you have never been able to do before. There is a £10 per month subscrption to this also, and I think the boxes are around £300 installed.
Another good options would be to go for Sky Plus which gives you a combo Sky box plus (hence the name ;-) a hard disk recorder (which I think is based on Tivo). It does all the Tivo stuff such as learning your shows, series link etc.
The other advantage is that you can record one sky channel and watch another which you have never been able to do before. There is a £10 per month subscrption to this also, and I think the boxes are around £300 installed.
I've had my TiVo for about 18 months and wouldn't be without it. I used to have a problem with my Sky digibox crashing, but that's been fixed by a recent software upgrade.
When I bought mine, the box was £400, Comet are selling them for £150 now. I believe Sky are doing Sky+ boxes for £199 with Sky+/mirror subscrption at a lower rate for existing customers.
The TiVo subscrption is either £10 per month, or £200 for the life of the box (it stays with the box if you sell it), Sky+ does not have a lifetime subscrption available yet. Sky+ does have the advantage that it records the stream directly from the dish, whereas Tivo re-encodes the output from the digibox.
I believe it is fairly simple to replace the Sky+ hard drive with a higher capacity one, with the TiVo it is a bit awkward, but mine now has a 160GB capacity, enough for 56 hours on the best quality setting.
TiVo lets you set Season Passes for any programme,, and you can order their priority in cases of clashes, whereas Sky+ only has series links on some series, and I believe, once the programme disappears form the planner, so does the link, although I have also heard that this is being addressed in a future software release.
Sky+ does not (yet) have Suggestions based on your current likes and dislikes like the TiVo.
I have had a few programmes missed by a failure to change channel correctly, something which won't happen with Sky+.
There are also rumours that soon Sky+ will be able to record 2 channels whilst you watch something already on the disc, invaluable for the odd occasion where clashing programmes are not repeated.
If I was buying now, I think the TiVo's suggestions would sway me.
Martin.
When I bought mine, the box was £400, Comet are selling them for £150 now. I believe Sky are doing Sky+ boxes for £199 with Sky+/mirror subscrption at a lower rate for existing customers.
The TiVo subscrption is either £10 per month, or £200 for the life of the box (it stays with the box if you sell it), Sky+ does not have a lifetime subscrption available yet. Sky+ does have the advantage that it records the stream directly from the dish, whereas Tivo re-encodes the output from the digibox.
I believe it is fairly simple to replace the Sky+ hard drive with a higher capacity one, with the TiVo it is a bit awkward, but mine now has a 160GB capacity, enough for 56 hours on the best quality setting.
TiVo lets you set Season Passes for any programme,, and you can order their priority in cases of clashes, whereas Sky+ only has series links on some series, and I believe, once the programme disappears form the planner, so does the link, although I have also heard that this is being addressed in a future software release.
Sky+ does not (yet) have Suggestions based on your current likes and dislikes like the TiVo.
I have had a few programmes missed by a failure to change channel correctly, something which won't happen with Sky+.
There are also rumours that soon Sky+ will be able to record 2 channels whilst you watch something already on the disc, invaluable for the odd occasion where clashing programmes are not repeated.
If I was buying now, I think the TiVo's suggestions would sway me.
Martin.
Thanks for the replies guys, of course when you go to their forums and website you get distorted views so asking here has helped.
Matt are you talking about "showshifter" which is software on the PC or buying a seperate system like tivo. I believe you can hack the tivo to have a network card otherwise you need a video capture card to talk to the PC. But it doesn't look that easy.
I also looked into the PC method of PVR but found that it uses a video capture card which needs video out (not so common and a bit pricey) and its also quite processor intensive. As my work is constantly on PC and I need to run several programs at once, so slowing my machine any more is not an option.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 3rd October 02:06
Matt are you talking about "showshifter" which is software on the PC or buying a seperate system like tivo. I believe you can hack the tivo to have a network card otherwise you need a video capture card to talk to the PC. But it doesn't look that easy.
I also looked into the PC method of PVR but found that it uses a video capture card which needs video out (not so common and a bit pricey) and its also quite processor intensive. As my work is constantly on PC and I need to run several programs at once, so slowing my machine any more is not an option.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 3rd October 02:06
I can lay my hands on some free but low spec PCs which I was considering using as a PVR. If you get a quality MPEG2 card like the Matrox Marvel or whatever, does it take the strain off the processor? You can get a grapics card with TV out pretty cheaply and hard disks are pretty cheap these days.
The problem is, you don't get the ease of programming that you do with a Sky+ box.
Ian A.
The problem is, you don't get the ease of programming that you do with a Sky+ box.
Ian A.
I've had a Sky Plus box for quite a while now and I think it's absolutely brilliant. I looked at the Tivo, but I decided against it. I didn't like the way it has to use an infra-red output to send commands to the Sky box so that it can change channel. Also, the box is HUGE!
Aprt from all the benefits of being a combined unit, another thing in the Sky Plus boxes favour is that it has an optical digital output for sound. This means that if you have a suitably equiped Dolby Digital home cinema amp you can watch certain channels in full Doly 5.1 Digital. It certainly makes the movies come alive after dull old Pro Logic.
The Sky Plus box is also very good at handling "Box Office" movies. You can record any film you like onto disk, you only pay if you actually watch it.
Whichever device you go for, be prepared for the box to totally change the way you watch TV. (Sorry if this all sounds a bit like an advert, but I just think the Sky+ is brilliant).
Aprt from all the benefits of being a combined unit, another thing in the Sky Plus boxes favour is that it has an optical digital output for sound. This means that if you have a suitably equiped Dolby Digital home cinema amp you can watch certain channels in full Doly 5.1 Digital. It certainly makes the movies come alive after dull old Pro Logic.
The Sky Plus box is also very good at handling "Box Office" movies. You can record any film you like onto disk, you only pay if you actually watch it.
Whichever device you go for, be prepared for the box to totally change the way you watch TV. (Sorry if this all sounds a bit like an advert, but I just think the Sky+ is brilliant).
Does anyone know if you can use the Sky+ box without the monthly fee? Obviously it won't integrate with the Sky guide but can you program it manually?
I'm moving house in a few months so I don't really want to install it now and then have to move it. I would prefer to just use it like a normal video recorder for a couple of months.
Ian A.
I'm moving house in a few months so I don't really want to install it now and then have to move it. I would prefer to just use it like a normal video recorder for a couple of months.
Ian A.
quote:any DVB medium/format will phone home with info.. it's the way of things.. and providing that data subsidises the cost of the kit and the broascasting.
Be aware that the bastard thing will tell the teev company what you watch, and can be told to record stuff by them for you that you didn't ask for.....
As for the TiVo recording stuff they 'pushed' .. well yes, this has happened, but (a) not if the box was scheduled to be doing anything else at the time and (b) not using any of your disk space up - pushed programs have been recorded to the system partition of the disk, which you wouldn't normally be able to use anyway..
So what's the big deal.. besides, you might find they send something you like but otherwise would have missed out on.
I've not played with TiVo, but I did a lot of research into buying one just before the far more attractive oppotunity to own a TVR came up..
I've played with Sky Plus - very tasty and undoubtedly a better package all round if you take digital TV - which you really should to justify the purchase of a DVR of any sort.
All IMNESHO, naturally
Okay here's the news I've bought the Tivo, I'm on NTL for broadband cable so I don't have Ski digital. Also the system should fit in with business etc. Installed it last night with only one problem that it had to be set-up twice first for an arial so it could download the upgrade software to allow me to set it up as digital cable. You then have to leave it to organise the programmes etc. wait for it 4-8 hours 
(I went to bed) but you can watch normal tv whilst its sorting itself out.
When I activated the account they told me about this spying stuff and effectively they collect the data of whats popular and sell that on but not your name address and so on. I personally don't mind that, they may even pick up on which progrmmes are sh*te and stop showing them.
This morning I set up my favourites/season pass and was very impressed. You can prioritise and alter its ideas. For example I set it to record 4 simpsons maximum so i don't get a hard disk full of it BUT if motorcycling is on at the same time it will record the motorcycling instead (it even asks which one when you set the season pass)
One thing that has got to me though is the getting out of the habit of watching Tv at a certain time. It felt very odd feeling I was missing a programme. Also the fact its recording ahead of you whilst you're watching it is well cool.
Finally programming this thing is so easy. You say what programme you want and thats it (you can optionally change the quality settings and give padding etc.), no finding out the times, channel etc. The guides are superb instead of surf by channel you surf what you want eg show me comedy films. Makes NTL guide look very basic.
(I went to bed) but you can watch normal tv whilst its sorting itself out. When I activated the account they told me about this spying stuff and effectively they collect the data of whats popular and sell that on but not your name address and so on. I personally don't mind that, they may even pick up on which progrmmes are sh*te and stop showing them.
This morning I set up my favourites/season pass and was very impressed. You can prioritise and alter its ideas. For example I set it to record 4 simpsons maximum so i don't get a hard disk full of it BUT if motorcycling is on at the same time it will record the motorcycling instead (it even asks which one when you set the season pass)
One thing that has got to me though is the getting out of the habit of watching Tv at a certain time. It felt very odd feeling I was missing a programme. Also the fact its recording ahead of you whilst you're watching it is well cool.
Finally programming this thing is so easy. You say what programme you want and thats it (you can optionally change the quality settings and give padding etc.), no finding out the times, channel etc. The guides are superb instead of surf by channel you surf what you want eg show me comedy films. Makes NTL guide look very basic.
Couple of points about TiVo:
The latest software is pretty decent, and mine hasn't crashed in living memory. (Mind you, my memory ain't that great, especially after last week's drunken antics in Brighton.)
The viewing stats TiVo collects _are_ anonymised. Ergo, who gives a flying stuff? There was lots of media bollocks about this at the outset.
Dossa & Jo: space is reserved on all TiVos for recording special stuff like this. It _does not_ eat into the advertised capacity of the unit. It _does not_ get recorded if you've got something else scheduled. The only really invasive thing it did was to appear in the main menu instead of in the "my recordings" menu thang. There was lots of media bollocks about this too. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story, etc.
It'll do "season passes" for most programs for which there's more than one episode. As has been mentioned, Sky have been slow to roll their "series link" out to all possible series. That might be fixed now tho...
You can choose what quality level to record stuff at: really crap quality (still better than VHS IMHO) for the stuff you watch once and discard; through another couple of levels to something decent for films you plan to keep. On "best quality", the picture quality is still pretty spiffy even though it's taken an already decoded digital TV stream and re-encoded it.
You don't *have* to have Sky, which to some people like me, is important. In actual fact, I *do* have Sky, because the quality and stability of the digital cable service from, uh, the other people, was laughable. But it's important for me to be able not to have Sky. Er.
The latest software is pretty decent, and mine hasn't crashed in living memory. (Mind you, my memory ain't that great, especially after last week's drunken antics in Brighton.)
The viewing stats TiVo collects _are_ anonymised. Ergo, who gives a flying stuff? There was lots of media bollocks about this at the outset.
Dossa & Jo: space is reserved on all TiVos for recording special stuff like this. It _does not_ eat into the advertised capacity of the unit. It _does not_ get recorded if you've got something else scheduled. The only really invasive thing it did was to appear in the main menu instead of in the "my recordings" menu thang. There was lots of media bollocks about this too. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story, etc.
It'll do "season passes" for most programs for which there's more than one episode. As has been mentioned, Sky have been slow to roll their "series link" out to all possible series. That might be fixed now tho...
You can choose what quality level to record stuff at: really crap quality (still better than VHS IMHO) for the stuff you watch once and discard; through another couple of levels to something decent for films you plan to keep. On "best quality", the picture quality is still pretty spiffy even though it's taken an already decoded digital TV stream and re-encoded it.
You don't *have* to have Sky, which to some people like me, is important. In actual fact, I *do* have Sky, because the quality and stability of the digital cable service from, uh, the other people, was laughable. But it's important for me to be able not to have Sky. Er.
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