Tourism and Deals with other Countries!
Discussion
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but with BJ doing reciprocal travel deals with certain countries agreeing no quarantine for it's citizens, how the f
k does he expect to stop the spread of CV-19??
With some people being asymptomatic, does a quick temp. check at customs prove you've not got it? We've already seen a steady stream of visitors from all over the world and very few checks, so a percentage of carriers must have come through
Why no self isolation / quarantine for BJs international buddies, or for ours going the other way(s)??
This seems a totally counter-productive, even dangerous! Or have I missed something?
k does he expect to stop the spread of CV-19??With some people being asymptomatic, does a quick temp. check at customs prove you've not got it? We've already seen a steady stream of visitors from all over the world and very few checks, so a percentage of carriers must have come through
Why no self isolation / quarantine for BJs international buddies, or for ours going the other way(s)??This seems a totally counter-productive, even dangerous! Or have I missed something?
dmahon said:
Yes, you’ve missed that the virus is a trivial risk to anyone under the age of 65, that there is no way to stop the spread, and that we need to get back to normal which includes opening borders with our near neighbours, most of which have better stats than us.
But leaving gyms, hairdressers, pubs and cinemas closed because..Because the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora's box opened. Its not getting put back or closed now. Or ever. This is the new normal.
It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
dmahon said:
Yes, you’ve missed that the virus can be a trivial risk to anyone under the age of 65, that there is no way to stop the spread, and that we need to get back to normal which includes opening borders with our near neighbours, most of which have better stats than us.
There may be no way to stop it, but we have shown we can slow it down and therefore not be totally overwhelmed, but surely, isolating for 10-14 days on entering a country is a safer way to go?I agree, we need the economy opening up. At risk groups should isolate and take all the precautions they can, the rest go about their lives following all precautions, masks, hand gels, social distancing, etc. Letting some come in and others go out without at least a week of isolation! Sure it's inconvenient, but we've already seen that a lot business meetings can be done via Team etc. Yes, it will cock up your holiday plans, but is that more important?
Michael O'Leary reckons the aircon in planes will filter the air efficiently enough but, the air on planes has been recycled since smoking on planes was banned. From reading reports of how to minimise jet lag, dehydration, etc. from long haul flights, the fact the air is recycled already causes problems for some people.
If a nut allergy traveller causes airlines to stop selling nuts on a plane, (a possible film title there, a la Airplane), due to the 'remote' possibility of a reaction, how does he expect microscopic CV-19 particles to be stopped?
This thing does need to run it's course, just not at Usain Bolt Speed!!
Smarter people than me will of course have an answer to this!
Getragdogleg said:
Because the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora's box opened. Its not getting put back or closed now. Or ever. This is the new normal.
It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
That is one of the most sensible and pragmatic things I’m I’ve seen written about this cluster fIt's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
k since it began. It’s about time people accepted some responsibility for their own actions, because as you rightly point out, since that Tosser in China ate an undercooked bat, the genie is out the bottle and it is not going back in, we cannot continue like this and people will have to do what they are comfortable with to minimise their own risk.Getragdogleg said:
Because the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora's box opened. Its not getting put back or closed now. Or ever. This is the new normal.
It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
Agree whole heartily Getradogleg, I'm in an at risk group as well. What I don't understand, is why air travel suddenly becomes acceptable with no isolation at the other end!!It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
Short Grain said:
Getragdogleg said:
Because the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora's box opened. Its not getting put back or closed now. Or ever. This is the new normal.
It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
Agree whole heartily Getradogleg, I'm in an at risk group as well. What I don't understand, is why air travel suddenly becomes acceptable with no isolation at the other end!!It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
Megaflow said:
Getragdogleg said:
Because the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora's box opened. Its not getting put back or closed now. Or ever. This is the new normal.
It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
That is one of the most sensible and pragmatic things I’m I’ve seen written about this cluster fIt's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
k since it began. It’s about time people accepted some responsibility for their own actions, because as you rightly point out, since that Tosser in China ate an undercooked bat, the genie is out the bottle and it is not going back in, we cannot continue like this and people will have to do what they are comfortable with to minimise their own risk.If you decide to take a risk, the main person you are risking is yourself.
People who want to take less risk are likewise free to do so.
Yes there are some externalities such as load on the NHS or the small chance of a low risk person passing it to a higher risk person where they do meet, but in a world of bad options where the genie is out of the bottle, it seems like one of the most sensible ways through this.
Particularly because the low risk people are “paying back” the high risk people through keeping society and the economy running and crucially, building herd immunity. Yes Mr Low risk there is a 0.01% chance I give it to you as we pass in the supermarket, but there is a > 0.01% chance I get the antibodies which ultimately keep you safe.
Edited by dmahon on Wednesday 13th May 15:45
Edited by dmahon on Wednesday 13th May 15:46
Megaflow said:
That is one of the most sensible and pragmatic things I’m I’ve seen written about this cluster fknsince it began. It’s about time people accepted some responsibility for their own actions, because as you rightly point out, since that Tosser in China ate an undercooked bat, the Genesis is out the bottle and it is not going back in, we cannot continue like this and people will have to do what they are comfortable with to minimise their own risk.
Again, I agree totally, but why not take every precaution possible while trying to get things moving? Little Steps to start. Unrestricted Air Travel in particular is a huge leap, not necessarily in the right direction! IMHOknsince it began. It’s about time people accepted some responsibility for their own actions, because as you rightly point out, since that Tosser in China ate an undercooked bat, the Genesis is out the bottle and it is not going back in, we cannot continue like this and people will have to do what they are comfortable with to minimise their own risk.Our lives have changed completely and will continue to change. Even if a vaccine is found, some people will still get it, just like every version of winter flu!! So, rinse and repeat, peaks and troughs ad infinitum?
If that's our future, I, for one, am not that bothered that I'm entering my twilight years!
dmahon said:
I thought the same - great post.
If you decide to take a risk, the main person you are risking is yourself.
People who want to take less risk are likewise free to do so.
Yes there are some externalities such as load on the NHS or the small chance of a low risk person passing it to a higher risk person where they do meet, but in a world of bad options where the genie is out of the bottle, it seems like one of the most sensible ways through this.
Particularly because the low risk people are “paying back” the high risk people through building herd immunity. Yes Mr Low risk there is a 0.01% chance I give it to you as we pass in the supermarket, but there is a > 0.01% chance I get the antibodies which ultimately keep you safe.
Is It? If you decide to take a risk, the main person you are risking is yourself.
People who want to take less risk are likewise free to do so.
Yes there are some externalities such as load on the NHS or the small chance of a low risk person passing it to a higher risk person where they do meet, but in a world of bad options where the genie is out of the bottle, it seems like one of the most sensible ways through this.
Particularly because the low risk people are “paying back” the high risk people through building herd immunity. Yes Mr Low risk there is a 0.01% chance I give it to you as we pass in the supermarket, but there is a > 0.01% chance I get the antibodies which ultimately keep you safe.
Edited by dmahon on Wednesday 13th May 15:45
And we know that herd immunity is guaranteed? From what I've read, scientists are still not sure that surviving it makes you immune!!
Edited by Short Grain on Wednesday 13th May 15:54
Short Grain said:
Again, I agree totally, but why not take every precaution possible while trying to get things moving? Little Steps to start. Unrestricted Air Travel in particular is a huge leap, not necessarily in the right direction! IMHO
Our lives have changed completely and will continue to change. Even if a vaccine is found, some people will still get it, just like every version of winter flu!! So, rinse and repeat, peaks and troughs ad infinitum?
If that's our future, I, for one, am not that bothered that I'm entering my twilight years!
I get what you are saying and why you are saying it, but we have already spent £282bn on precautions, at some point we need to pay that back. For context, that is £9,100 for every person the U.K. workforce... Our lives have changed completely and will continue to change. Even if a vaccine is found, some people will still get it, just like every version of winter flu!! So, rinse and repeat, peaks and troughs ad infinitum?
If that's our future, I, for one, am not that bothered that I'm entering my twilight years!
Getragdogleg said:
Because the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora's box opened. Its not getting put back or closed now. Or ever. This is the new normal.
It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
That's true. But people (like myself - mid 60s) on the cusp of high risk, might think it's statistically safer to catch it now than, say, next year or the year after. We can't run away from it forever.It's up to the individual to take as few or as many steps to avoid this illness as they feel is suitable for their circumstances.
As a high risk person I will not be going anywhere near anyone else for a long time let alone getting on public transport or an aeroplane for a long time
A low risk person is quite at liberty to crack on as they see fit.
What I won't have is low risk people telling me that what I'm doing is wrong.
Megaflow said:
I get what you are saying and why you are saying it, but we have already spent £282bn on precautions, at some point we need to pay that back. For context, that is £9,100 for every person the U.K. workforce...
Yes we have to open the economy, the debt will keep building and has to be paid back somehow. Opening up virtually unrestricted international travel seems to be swinging the door open wider than it needs to be to start with!Short Grain said:
Yes we have to open the economy, the debt will keep building and has to be paid back somehow. Opening up virtually unrestricted international travel seems to be swinging the door open wider than it needs to be to start with!
Sorry if I have missed something, but I thought he had only done a deal with France, which considering we are linked by rail, seems a sensible move to me. Which is a long way from unrestricted travel.Also the deal with France hopefully means, if nothing else I at least get a holiday at my parents place in france this year.
hutchst said:
That's true. But people (like myself - mid 60s) on the cusp of high risk, might think it's statistically safer to catch it now than, say, next year or the year after. We can't run away from it forever.
No, but we can jog away, or in my case, hobble slowly hoping it doesn't catch me 
. If it does all I can hope for then is something akin to flu at most. If not it would probably finish me 
If I can go quickly with very little pain so be it. In the meantime, taking more chances with the health of ALL of us, is irresponsible by BoJo and his international buddy club!No way will I be flying in the foreseeable future
Short Grain said:
Is It?
And we know that herd immunity is guaranteed? From what I've read, scientists are still not sure that surviving it makes you immune!!
Some of the media made a headline of the fact that there is no proof that it confers immunity. Well, duh, we haven't had time! But it would be rather unusual if our immune systems stopped working over Christmas after several million years of faithful service...And we know that herd immunity is guaranteed? From what I've read, scientists are still not sure that surviving it makes you immune!!
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