992, its so good, its actually a bit urm, boring?
Discussion
So I’ve had my 992 C2S since September last year, massive bucket list box ticked, wanted one since I was a kid, RUF-esq yellow, the essential driver boxes ticked, a bit over £100k. And its a great car, no, its a flipping awesome car, it really isn’t very big compared with ‘normal’ cars and it doesn’t feel big to me on the A and B roads of Herefordshire and Worcestershire. Mrs DG quite likes it, thats a compliment, she really could not give a s
t about most cars, positively hated my old Elise.
But its just too damned fast, as in I simply can’t let the thing go, cant wring it out in 2nd, let alone 3rd in sport plus without reaching stupid speeds. It is so accomplished, it just effortlessly demolishes roads, and apart from the odd naughty foray to the redline, its getting a bit frustrating if I’m honest. Oh, and it sounds great to me with its induction gurgling and turbo chuffing.
Clearly not looking to sell, I love it to bits, and I’ve had a great weekend using it around the Malvern Hills, clocking up 30 odd miles in the car, and another 30 odd miles on foot, at the southern end, away from the masses.
But where do I go from here in 2-3 years? I always have to have a plan! The dream is probably some kind of 964 Outlaw, 996 and 997 don’t really do it for me, they are too in between modern and classic, and Mrs DG would not sit in any kind of GT (maybe a touring sans any kind of motorsport look-a-like bits).
It also needs to effortlessly deliver down to and across the Alps once a year, as well as a good few trips to Cornwall on the M5/A30. Which the 992 absolutely does and some.
Maybe a manual 992-T with just 385bhp? For the first time I can actually get why people don’t need north of 400bhp. Never thought I’d say that!
Hmmmm.
t about most cars, positively hated my old Elise.But its just too damned fast, as in I simply can’t let the thing go, cant wring it out in 2nd, let alone 3rd in sport plus without reaching stupid speeds. It is so accomplished, it just effortlessly demolishes roads, and apart from the odd naughty foray to the redline, its getting a bit frustrating if I’m honest. Oh, and it sounds great to me with its induction gurgling and turbo chuffing.
Clearly not looking to sell, I love it to bits, and I’ve had a great weekend using it around the Malvern Hills, clocking up 30 odd miles in the car, and another 30 odd miles on foot, at the southern end, away from the masses.
But where do I go from here in 2-3 years? I always have to have a plan! The dream is probably some kind of 964 Outlaw, 996 and 997 don’t really do it for me, they are too in between modern and classic, and Mrs DG would not sit in any kind of GT (maybe a touring sans any kind of motorsport look-a-like bits).
It also needs to effortlessly deliver down to and across the Alps once a year, as well as a good few trips to Cornwall on the M5/A30. Which the 992 absolutely does and some.
Maybe a manual 992-T with just 385bhp? For the first time I can actually get why people don’t need north of 400bhp. Never thought I’d say that!
Hmmmm.
It does seem to be an increasingly common theme on here.
Some cars are just too efficient and the performance advantages aren’t really accessible.
Perhaps that’s why there is so much love for the aircooled 911s.
In an ideal world I suppose there would be a modern Porsche with all the toys and conveniences for day-to-day duties, whatever the weather, in the garage.
And, parked next to it, a nice little aircooled gem for sunny days, fun trips and old-Skool indulgence, where the driver does the work and has some play
Some cars are just too efficient and the performance advantages aren’t really accessible.
Perhaps that’s why there is so much love for the aircooled 911s.
In an ideal world I suppose there would be a modern Porsche with all the toys and conveniences for day-to-day duties, whatever the weather, in the garage.
And, parked next to it, a nice little aircooled gem for sunny days, fun trips and old-Skool indulgence, where the driver does the work and has some play
To quote Jerry Seinfeld on a Podcast about the 992...”tremendous capability a little character challenged”. I think both the 991 and 992 Carrera and S are more GT than Sports Car at normal road speeds....when you push on the sports car comes out loud and clear but when you’re not pushing on I find them a bit “boring” to quote the OP.
I took out our base 992 cab yesterday probably for it's first real drive (bought in Jan), and, having been a bit concerned that we should have bought the S, felt somewhat confirmed in the choice. It was a hoot to drive, even in cab form, without having to access silly speeds. My M6 comp was considerably faster, but other that the giddy pleasure from the initial acceleration (after which you would just have to slow down again), there was no way you could push the car without driving like a lout. I know it is not a direct comparison, but that is the fastest car I have had. The 992 base feels like the 981S we had, but just more civilised (and comfortable for me at 6'3"), but with the sports exhaust & the roof down it was really fun in a way that the faster car may not be.
What am I thinking. So, I've met (and bought) my hero car, and its a bit boring??? Sounds cr@p doesnt it, first world problem especially at the moment and £100k is no small amount of cash to the vast majority of people, including me. Sure 99% of car enthusiasts stepping into a 992 wouldnt find it boring..... so maybe just familiarity is starting to bite.
So it isnt really boring at all, its a lovely lovely thing, and that rush of acceleration is phenominal, still surprises me when I pin it for a few seconds, and it goes so well down a twisty A/B road, especially in Sport with the chassis tightened up a bit. It obviously doesnt flow quite like the Elise did, or anywhere near as involving, but its a very different car and unfair to even compare. With the Lotus and JCW Mini I've had previously, I did always feel they never had enough grunt, so its also nice to know you've got significant 'go' when you need to pass a dawdler, and on the bone dry roads it certainly kicks up a dust storm behind you when you nail it. And I havent felt the rear end wiggle once yet in 2,500 miles, even in the wet. But I havent tried to provoke it either.
The JCW Mini was fun mind, especially on wet roundabouts, probably one of the 'fun-est' cars I've ever had - probably the almost artifical-feeling go-kart like handling, made you feel like a hot hatch hero without trying to kill you. Surprised there isnt more praise for the F56, it knocks the socks off a Golf GTI / R in the giggle stakes, certainly the ones I test drove at the time anyway. Only three doors, less practical and has a girly image maybe. Took it camping a few times, bit of a squeeze.
The reality is if I ever went classic, I fear it could be a b1tch to drive - especially after the 992 - and I'd be disappointed. And I'd need to double my budget for a really sorted Outlaw. I just can't think of a similar car for my £100k budget that I'd rather have, or at least think I'd rather have.
Exige 350/410/430, I'd absolutely love one, Mrs DG wouldnt go near it, so pointless. Evora probably the closest, but never tried one. M3 / M4 / RS6 / C63, nah, not really my bag. Came very close to clicking a cheap lease on an M2 Comp a couple of years ago (Mrs DG didnt like that either), before venturing into our OPC. Aston, McL etc starting to get into the price league above. In the old days, I'd have been an ideal TVR customer in the £60-80k zone.
If I was buying again, I'd definitely be looking at a manual non-S to try and save £10k, especially with its higher profile tyres I think, bit more compliance when cruising and effectively free Sports Chrono with the manual. The non-S was not available when I ordered. I did originally wander in to my OPC for a 991.2 Carrera-T so be interesting what the 992 version looks like.
If I was feeling brave and with hindsight, a pre-loved manual 991 Carrera T in Yellow or Red, coupled with a visit to Litchfield (who are only 500yds from my OPC) for a bit more of everything and some suspension voodoo; looking at prices, for £60-65k it could be a classic, no filter removal MOT issues and with an Akropovic exhaust and somekind of Aerokit - a future Outlaw and a keeper forever. Especially if you could get one without rear seats and PCM, so the cabin doesnt date so much.
Or take a peek at the 6-cyl 718 stuff, maybe a Boxster. Friend of mine has just got a late 981 Cayman S, but then lockdown happened and we havent been out in it yet. He says it screams when you let it go.... He's come from a company Prius though, so not quite convinced yet lol!
I drive my wife's Fiat 500X, thats boring, but she likes it and despite being offered an array of flashier / faster / nicer metal, she says she doesnt care what car she has and she doesnt need to stress when she scrapes it. Again. My work car is an A6, a paragon of dullness but good at what it does.
Clearly too much time on my hands, working from home 4/5 days, missing the daily waste of 3hrs of commute and god knows how much CO2. But then if I could loose the daily commute long term, the 992 could become the daily, but then familiarity would really kick in. Or would it. Hmmmm, what car would I choose if I only needed one for 8k p/a and not 28k miles p/a...... Probably a 992. Answers it.
So it isnt really boring at all, its a lovely lovely thing, and that rush of acceleration is phenominal, still surprises me when I pin it for a few seconds, and it goes so well down a twisty A/B road, especially in Sport with the chassis tightened up a bit. It obviously doesnt flow quite like the Elise did, or anywhere near as involving, but its a very different car and unfair to even compare. With the Lotus and JCW Mini I've had previously, I did always feel they never had enough grunt, so its also nice to know you've got significant 'go' when you need to pass a dawdler, and on the bone dry roads it certainly kicks up a dust storm behind you when you nail it. And I havent felt the rear end wiggle once yet in 2,500 miles, even in the wet. But I havent tried to provoke it either.
The JCW Mini was fun mind, especially on wet roundabouts, probably one of the 'fun-est' cars I've ever had - probably the almost artifical-feeling go-kart like handling, made you feel like a hot hatch hero without trying to kill you. Surprised there isnt more praise for the F56, it knocks the socks off a Golf GTI / R in the giggle stakes, certainly the ones I test drove at the time anyway. Only three doors, less practical and has a girly image maybe. Took it camping a few times, bit of a squeeze.
The reality is if I ever went classic, I fear it could be a b1tch to drive - especially after the 992 - and I'd be disappointed. And I'd need to double my budget for a really sorted Outlaw. I just can't think of a similar car for my £100k budget that I'd rather have, or at least think I'd rather have.
Exige 350/410/430, I'd absolutely love one, Mrs DG wouldnt go near it, so pointless. Evora probably the closest, but never tried one. M3 / M4 / RS6 / C63, nah, not really my bag. Came very close to clicking a cheap lease on an M2 Comp a couple of years ago (Mrs DG didnt like that either), before venturing into our OPC. Aston, McL etc starting to get into the price league above. In the old days, I'd have been an ideal TVR customer in the £60-80k zone.
If I was buying again, I'd definitely be looking at a manual non-S to try and save £10k, especially with its higher profile tyres I think, bit more compliance when cruising and effectively free Sports Chrono with the manual. The non-S was not available when I ordered. I did originally wander in to my OPC for a 991.2 Carrera-T so be interesting what the 992 version looks like.
If I was feeling brave and with hindsight, a pre-loved manual 991 Carrera T in Yellow or Red, coupled with a visit to Litchfield (who are only 500yds from my OPC) for a bit more of everything and some suspension voodoo; looking at prices, for £60-65k it could be a classic, no filter removal MOT issues and with an Akropovic exhaust and somekind of Aerokit - a future Outlaw and a keeper forever. Especially if you could get one without rear seats and PCM, so the cabin doesnt date so much.
Or take a peek at the 6-cyl 718 stuff, maybe a Boxster. Friend of mine has just got a late 981 Cayman S, but then lockdown happened and we havent been out in it yet. He says it screams when you let it go.... He's come from a company Prius though, so not quite convinced yet lol!
I drive my wife's Fiat 500X, thats boring, but she likes it and despite being offered an array of flashier / faster / nicer metal, she says she doesnt care what car she has and she doesnt need to stress when she scrapes it. Again. My work car is an A6, a paragon of dullness but good at what it does.
Clearly too much time on my hands, working from home 4/5 days, missing the daily waste of 3hrs of commute and god knows how much CO2. But then if I could loose the daily commute long term, the 992 could become the daily, but then familiarity would really kick in. Or would it. Hmmmm, what car would I choose if I only needed one for 8k p/a and not 28k miles p/a...... Probably a 992. Answers it.
Wait for the 992t.
Reckon this will be a sweet car. But still maybe too quick.
Just about special enough to have as a long term keeper i think.
But in the near term try a 4.0 boxster/cayman when your dealer gets one. Preferable a manual.
I still reckon a boxster t with right spec is the best fun v price mind. You can extend the car more of the time.
Reckon this will be a sweet car. But still maybe too quick.
Just about special enough to have as a long term keeper i think.
But in the near term try a 4.0 boxster/cayman when your dealer gets one. Preferable a manual.
I still reckon a boxster t with right spec is the best fun v price mind. You can extend the car more of the time.
Have had a £145k spec car for a few days.
It’s one car to Perform in all situations. Better performance (comfort, speed, composure etc), more confidence inspiring (you will drive faster on poorer roads for example), with added convenience (tech and toys).
It removes what suddenly feels like flaws that made ones that came before... well it just felt like I got nothing from it. No excitement, just less relationship. I never tested it at the extremes - I couldn’t even get close and I was trying in the wet too.
I could easily have this as my main car. But I wouldn’t have it as my “drivers” car.
It’s one car to Perform in all situations. Better performance (comfort, speed, composure etc), more confidence inspiring (you will drive faster on poorer roads for example), with added convenience (tech and toys).
It removes what suddenly feels like flaws that made ones that came before... well it just felt like I got nothing from it. No excitement, just less relationship. I never tested it at the extremes - I couldn’t even get close and I was trying in the wet too.
I could easily have this as my main car. But I wouldn’t have it as my “drivers” car.
I've driven a 992 and have a 991.2 C2S. I also have a Elise Cup and getting into the 911 after the Elise it feels huge, the steering is lifeless and there is only a part of the connection/excitement but the 911 is still a great drive just not many things aside from similar (caterhams etc) will give you the same involvement as the Lotus. That said the Lotus can be a PITA at times and very tiring. Very much horses for courses. I guess I'm lucky that MrsG likes the Lotus and likes driving it so I can get away with both!
evora 400/410 is basically the perfect car, if you (and the mrs) can put up with the slightly out of date interior (massively out of date compared to a 992). the ride is far more comfortable than you think is possible, whilst being way more engaging than most modern porches. Another option is an aston vantage new or old. The old v8/12 are great cars, and the new one has a lot more character than a 992.
Back in 2009 I ordered a C2 and then spent 6 months annoyed that I didn't plump for the C2S. The C2 just didn't seem to have enough torque for the PDK gearbox and spent most of its life thinking there was a better gear than the one it was already in. So after 6 months I got annoyed and traded it in for a Mini JCW to run alongside my BMW 335d Coupe (no it wasn't faster than an M3, oh how I miss those threads). But together the Mini and the BMW were better than the C2.
Roll on 10 years and I have a 992 C2 and this time I traded in my Mini JCW Challenge. I have a Mini GP3 on order which should have been delivered last month but I'm going to cancel the GP3, truth is the 992 C2 can do fast and fun and be a truly usable everyday car to the point where I don't see when I'd jump into the GP3 over the 992.
I also never considered the C2S this time around (did think about the 4.0 GTS Cayman). There is plenty of power for the road, it now has the widebody and all of the chassis tech which needed and being the "boggo" model I'm not precious about where I leave it. It seems the gap between the C2 and the C2S has never been closer and the difference is not something that makes the car more fun on the road.
I would have loved an Evora but the rear seat space means it's not quite as easy to live with which circles us back round to why the 911 is a great thing and the 992 seems to fit with the old philosophy of a usable everyday sports car better than pretty much anything else out there. Might be a different conversation if I didn't need 4 seats.
Roll on 10 years and I have a 992 C2 and this time I traded in my Mini JCW Challenge. I have a Mini GP3 on order which should have been delivered last month but I'm going to cancel the GP3, truth is the 992 C2 can do fast and fun and be a truly usable everyday car to the point where I don't see when I'd jump into the GP3 over the 992.
I also never considered the C2S this time around (did think about the 4.0 GTS Cayman). There is plenty of power for the road, it now has the widebody and all of the chassis tech which needed and being the "boggo" model I'm not precious about where I leave it. It seems the gap between the C2 and the C2S has never been closer and the difference is not something that makes the car more fun on the road.
I would have loved an Evora but the rear seat space means it's not quite as easy to live with which circles us back round to why the 911 is a great thing and the 992 seems to fit with the old philosophy of a usable everyday sports car better than pretty much anything else out there. Might be a different conversation if I didn't need 4 seats.
I test drove a 992 C2 end of last year as I mulled over changing out the Cayman - fantastic car really really enjoyed it, but as others have said it just felt so competent that I wondered apart from some rear seats - which I don’t need - and a 70K cost to change - would it really have given me a 70K amount of enjoyment over and above the Cayman - and decided at that point it didn’t - with the current craziness I am maybe even more glad I didn’t take it on
But having said that would still love a 911 at some point
But having said that would still love a 911 at some point
I had a 991 Turbo S for a while, but didn't keep it for exactly the reasons you mention. It wasn't interesting enough at slow speeds, and then got to silly speeds too quickly. Seemed to be too much cash for too little excitement.
Despite that, have been thinking about a 992 Carrera recently, (an even more dull Carrera 4 to be precise...) as a daily driver. I think you need to recalibrate expectations, and appreciate it for what it is...fast, reliable, does anything every day, is a good size, not over the top conspicuous. It still handles and goes better than you'll need on the road, (on the occasions you can see a long way ahead..).
It's not particularly exciting compared to older 911s, but is still a lot more interesting than 99% of other cars, which suffer from the same constraints, and more so.
I read a couple of years ago, that Porsche was really making 911s for people who want a Panamera, but want one that looks like a sportscar...I think that might be me now! Not all of the time, but most of the time...and i agree with woollyjoe - it's one for every day, but not for high days and holidays, if you're able to have that choice.
I do have an Exige 430, and don't think anyone, including Lotus, will be building anything like that again, but it's whole different kind of car. I also used an early Evora daily for a year or so, and it's a great thing. The ride and handling is better than a 911, imo, but it's hard not to notice the difference in quality of interior, drivetrain etc. Again, depends which boxes you want to tick.
I'm another one who thinks the T is the sweetspot in terms of value, and drive-ability right now, if you don't need the "added plushness" of a 992. 997 GTS is also a good shout - but again it will feel like a much older car.
Despite that, have been thinking about a 992 Carrera recently, (an even more dull Carrera 4 to be precise...) as a daily driver. I think you need to recalibrate expectations, and appreciate it for what it is...fast, reliable, does anything every day, is a good size, not over the top conspicuous. It still handles and goes better than you'll need on the road, (on the occasions you can see a long way ahead..).
It's not particularly exciting compared to older 911s, but is still a lot more interesting than 99% of other cars, which suffer from the same constraints, and more so.
I read a couple of years ago, that Porsche was really making 911s for people who want a Panamera, but want one that looks like a sportscar...I think that might be me now! Not all of the time, but most of the time...and i agree with woollyjoe - it's one for every day, but not for high days and holidays, if you're able to have that choice.
I do have an Exige 430, and don't think anyone, including Lotus, will be building anything like that again, but it's whole different kind of car. I also used an early Evora daily for a year or so, and it's a great thing. The ride and handling is better than a 911, imo, but it's hard not to notice the difference in quality of interior, drivetrain etc. Again, depends which boxes you want to tick.
I'm another one who thinks the T is the sweetspot in terms of value, and drive-ability right now, if you don't need the "added plushness" of a 992. 997 GTS is also a good shout - but again it will feel like a much older car.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This.I sold a very nice 997.1 to buy the (then newly released) 991. It was a dull car to drive and I grew to dislike it. Hugely capable, but when you weren't hoofing it it was like being in some sort of Audi repmobile.
So I went "backwards" and bought a 997.2 GTS, which I have owned ever since and it's probably the best car I have ever owned.
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff