The 'I am living in a Dilbert cartoon' thread.
Discussion
Two weeks ago my employer quoted a software development at 20 days work at £700 a day. The client started asking about a discount, which in the current climate is reasonable for such a good customer. I've now heard the account manager wants to keep the rate at £700 but offer to do the work in 17 days instead.
Dr Jekyll said:
Two weeks ago my employer quoted a software development at 20 days work at £700 a day. The client started asking about a discount, which in the current climate is reasonable for such a good customer. I've now heard the account manager wants to keep the rate at £700 but offer to do the work in 17 days instead.
Ah yes, I have had that one, a switched to fixed price engagements can help here though, delivery effort doesn't change but the price does, providing it is scoped correctly anyway.If we take away the Dilbert-ness, it's about social engineering isn't it?
£700 a day for 17 days instead of 20 reduces the price by £2100.
£600 instead of £700 for 20 days reduces the price by £2000.
If I am the customer I know which one looks like a discount to me, and it's the latter...
£700 a day for 17 days instead of 20 reduces the price by £2100.
£600 instead of £700 for 20 days reduces the price by £2000.
If I am the customer I know which one looks like a discount to me, and it's the latter...
Dr Jekyll said:
Two weeks ago my employer quoted a software development at 20 days work at £700 a day. The client started asking about a discount, which in the current climate is reasonable for such a good customer. I've now heard the account manager wants to keep the rate at £700 but offer to do the work in 17 days instead.
With the cost per time being fixed, the employer wants you to move to the bottom of the triangle - away from scope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_t...
On a more banal level, I have just returned to work as the whole department was furloughed. We look after plants in offices btw.
Priority one was to get out there and start watering them (at this point it is only me doing any work).
Start doing that and priority one becomes ringing all the customers who haven't responded to my initial email asking if we can start visiting their offices.
Start doing that and now apparently my office is very dusty after not being occupied, and priority one is to give it a good clean.
I will start laughing like a crazy person if my manager walks in while I am doing so and asks why I'm not out there watering plants.
Priority one was to get out there and start watering them (at this point it is only me doing any work).
Start doing that and priority one becomes ringing all the customers who haven't responded to my initial email asking if we can start visiting their offices.
Start doing that and now apparently my office is very dusty after not being occupied, and priority one is to give it a good clean.
I will start laughing like a crazy person if my manager walks in while I am doing so and asks why I'm not out there watering plants.
I guess about six or seven years ago, I was desperately arguing to pick a certain vendor over another. I am an engineer so I was trying to convince our procurement team, my immediate manager, quality team etc.
Later that day the general manager of the entire quite large oil & gas project I was on passed me this...
I've kept it with me and still chuckle when I see it at the bottom of a box when I move office.
Later that day the general manager of the entire quite large oil & gas project I was on passed me this...
I've kept it with me and still chuckle when I see it at the bottom of a box when I move office.
It's simple. Get clarity on regardless of how sales have chosen to price it, how many days (elapsed & effort) you have to complete the work.
If either the elapsed or effort days is less that was given to sales at the pre-sales stage ask what has been taken out of development scope. Then re-price based on the new scope to set a clear expectation and to assure yourselves that it can actually be delivered. If this is all nonsense and sales won't listen just tell them what can be delivered in the available elapsed and effort days.
A discount is a commercial decision. If sales / management are fine to work with reduced margin, that's fine - shouldn't impact your delivery.
If either the elapsed or effort days is less that was given to sales at the pre-sales stage ask what has been taken out of development scope. Then re-price based on the new scope to set a clear expectation and to assure yourselves that it can actually be delivered. If this is all nonsense and sales won't listen just tell them what can be delivered in the available elapsed and effort days.
A discount is a commercial decision. If sales / management are fine to work with reduced margin, that's fine - shouldn't impact your delivery.
Nearly 20 years ago I worked for a computer retailer. This was around the introduction of Windows XP which came with many Driver and compatability issues with the peripherals we sold with them, amongst other issues, premium rate telephone support and a big push for expensive 'support' packages.
This was before you could just plug in the USB cable and it would work.
There was a Dilbert cartoon I pinned in the back office which went along the line of the boss saying they've found a way of cutting costs by stopping telephone support and customers will need to use web support... And a flaw in the product stops the modem working.
Our Area manager took it down when he visited the store.
This was before you could just plug in the USB cable and it would work.
There was a Dilbert cartoon I pinned in the back office which went along the line of the boss saying they've found a way of cutting costs by stopping telephone support and customers will need to use web support... And a flaw in the product stops the modem working.
Our Area manager took it down when he visited the store.
Dr Jekyll said:
Two weeks ago my employer quoted a software development at 20 days work at £700 a day. The client started asking about a discount, which in the current climate is reasonable for such a good customer. I've now heard the account manager wants to keep the rate at £700 but offer to do the work in 17 days instead.
As somebody with no real business knowledge 2 things jump out at me.1. Can you actually complete it in 17 days if so why did you quote for 20?
2. The customer is going to think if they quoted 20 days how come they can suddenly do it in 17?
Drawweight said:
As somebody with no real business knowledge 2 things jump out at me.
1. Can you actually complete it in 17 days if so why did you quote for 20?
2. The customer is going to think if they quoted 20 days how come they can suddenly do it in 17?
This is not 2 things. It is the same thing written slightly differently.1. Can you actually complete it in 17 days if so why did you quote for 20?
2. The customer is going to think if they quoted 20 days how come they can suddenly do it in 17?
Drawweight said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Two weeks ago my employer quoted a software development at 20 days work at £700 a day. The client started asking about a discount, which in the current climate is reasonable for such a good customer. I've now heard the account manager wants to keep the rate at £700 but offer to do the work in 17 days instead.
As somebody with no real business knowledge 2 things jump out at me.1. Can you actually complete it in 17 days if so why did you quote for 20?
2. The customer is going to think if they quoted 20 days how come they can suddenly do it in 17?
2. Precisely. I think the account manager simply assumed the time estimate was negotiable and not a realistic figure the developer was going to be under pressure to achieve.
A lot of our account managers live in a world where every item on their 'to do' list can be done in a few minutes. Make a phone call, send an email, update a spreadsheet etc. They really cannot understand that some jobs do take time, They do think that if a developer is working on the same item on Friday that they were in Monday that means they have done nothing all week and obviously just need to get their finger out.
Dr Jekyll said:
A lot of our account managers live in a world where every item on their 'to do' list can be done in a few minutes. Make a phone call, send an email, update a spreadsheet etc. They really cannot understand that some jobs do take time, They do think that if a developer is working on the same item on Friday that they were in Monday that means they have done nothing all week and obviously just need to get their finger out.
Also an attitude best summed up as "if it takes a woman nine months to have a baby, nine women can produce one in a month".Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff