Thought on these two 987 Caymans with rebuilt engines?
Discussion
As it would be my first foray into Porsche ownership, I'd very much appreciate any thoughts and opinions on both of these cars:
3.4 Cayman S. 114,500 miles. Engine rebuilt 30k/5 years ago by Hartech. Looks to be in excellent condition. https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1213258 - £12,250.
3.4 Cayman S. 87,000 miles. Engine rebuild by SCS less than 10,000 years ago. Looks a little bit scrappy. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-Porsche-Cayman-987... £12,000
I intend to get a PPI on either/both, but just wondered whether either car was known to the Porsche community or whether there is anything obvious I'm missing.
3.4 Cayman S. 114,500 miles. Engine rebuilt 30k/5 years ago by Hartech. Looks to be in excellent condition. https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1213258 - £12,250.
3.4 Cayman S. 87,000 miles. Engine rebuild by SCS less than 10,000 years ago. Looks a little bit scrappy. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-Porsche-Cayman-987... £12,000
I intend to get a PPI on either/both, but just wondered whether either car was known to the Porsche community or whether there is anything obvious I'm missing.
Hartech car looks better to me..On the face of it the advert just suggests it's a better spec car that's been looked after better in the past and the condition today looks better too. Add to that the Hartech reputation and it looks a much better proposal than the second car. All needs checking out and just my two peneth of course..
Edited by Edmundo2 on Saturday 23 May 08:01
It's a testament to their reputation that it's lasted so long already! Edmundo2 said:
Hartech car looks better to me..On the face of it the advert just suggests it's a better spec car that's been looked after better in the past and the condition today looks better too. Add to that the Hartech reputation and it looks a much better proposal than the second car. All needs checking out and just my two peneth of course..
Along similar lines to what I was thinking, although considering how long ago the Hartech rebuild was, I was unsure whether it's such an important factor any more.Edited by Edmundo2 on Saturday 23 May 08:01
Will the Hartech rebuild have resolved the bore scoring issue for good?
I used to own a 997.1 that previously had a full Hartech rebuild (at cost of just under 10k) and it was perfect 
From many years on the Porsche forums, I have never heard of bore-scoring or IMS failure on a Hartech'd engine; so fwiw, I think it is the better option as far as the engine goes & good for at least 100k. Spec is better too, including extended leather on dash (not on the other one). No heated seats on either car.
But I'd want to know the story behind the non-standard front bumper.
-replaced due to damage / or just for the "look" ?
From many years on the Porsche forums, I have never heard of bore-scoring or IMS failure on a Hartech'd engine; so fwiw, I think it is the better option as far as the engine goes & good for at least 100k. Spec is better too, including extended leather on dash (not on the other one). No heated seats on either car.
But I'd want to know the story behind the non-standard front bumper.
-replaced due to damage / or just for the "look" ?
Have you seen this one, also with a re-build?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
...and don't dismiss the Boxsters!
Very similar driving experience, with the added option of al-freso motoring
And earlier 987S with 3.2 rarely suffers from bore scoring, so could be a good choice.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
...and don't dismiss the Boxsters!
Very similar driving experience, with the added option of al-freso motoring
And earlier 987S with 3.2 rarely suffers from bore scoring, so could be a good choice.
Edited by SnowySpeeder on Saturday 23 May 11:32
Edited by SnowySpeeder on Saturday 23 May 11:40
SnowySpeeder said:
£5k seems to be quite cheap for a rebuild?Ah, I see. Makes sense. Though you'd think you'd just pay for the money to get a full rebuild done.
Andyoz said:
I saw a manual gen 2 S with 50k miles sell for £16,500 so if it was me right now I'd be stretching for a 987.2S
My guess is whatever price premium you pay for a gen 2 manual now will be maintained on any future sale.
My thinking is that I'd rather get a mint gen 1, than pay 25% more and get a ropey gen 2?My guess is whatever price premium you pay for a gen 2 manual now will be maintained on any future sale.
It wasn't a ropey one though by all accounts and lowish miles which will always be a big factor. Maybe poor photos used in the advert but they are out there. The gen 2 manual S is cheaper road tax too (I think)
I can't see how a gen 1 with 115k miles will ever be defined as "mint' engine rebuild it not
I can't see how a gen 1 with 115k miles will ever be defined as "mint' engine rebuild it not
Edited by Andyoz on Saturday 23 May 13:28
the other lower risk option, is to go for a nice 2.7
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Edited by SnowySpeeder on Saturday 23 May 13:58
I personally don't care re mileage or number of owners etc...I'd buy based on spec and condition. Not sure if "mint" is subjective but to my mind it means fantastic condition whether that be zero miles or mega miles...
I bought a gen 1 with 90k on it because of the spec/history it came with. Full engine rebuild, records of every little job being done, fastidious ownership etc..etc. I was also looking for desireable mods which in my mind made the car better than stock. That's personal preference but the mods and replacement parts on.the car I bought probably totaled £10k ,( in addition to the £10k engine rebuild ), which is money I would have had to spend to arrive at the same place...
I have to say I'm really pleased with it and it feels like a hell of a car for the money. I bought it as a weekend performance car that I can develop in a mini GT3 guise..,( it's never going to reach Mezger levels I know ..). That's just me but other people may want a car for a different purpose and therefore place more importance on different aspects... If you are looking for a pristine daily that's comfortable on a motorway work commute and don't plan to keep it that long then I guess low mileage, original, unmodified etc etc might be best as likely other prospective owners of that sort may be easy to sell it onto in the future..
I guess you just need to decide what matters to you most..the car itself or its future value and resale potential..
I bought a gen 1 with 90k on it because of the spec/history it came with. Full engine rebuild, records of every little job being done, fastidious ownership etc..etc. I was also looking for desireable mods which in my mind made the car better than stock. That's personal preference but the mods and replacement parts on.the car I bought probably totaled £10k ,( in addition to the £10k engine rebuild ), which is money I would have had to spend to arrive at the same place...
I have to say I'm really pleased with it and it feels like a hell of a car for the money. I bought it as a weekend performance car that I can develop in a mini GT3 guise..,( it's never going to reach Mezger levels I know ..). That's just me but other people may want a car for a different purpose and therefore place more importance on different aspects... If you are looking for a pristine daily that's comfortable on a motorway work commute and don't plan to keep it that long then I guess low mileage, original, unmodified etc etc might be best as likely other prospective owners of that sort may be easy to sell it onto in the future..
I guess you just need to decide what matters to you most..the car itself or its future value and resale potential..
The Hartech engined car gives more insight to the level of maintenance that’s taken place & it’s reassuring to see annual servicing reported since the rebuild - If the car was in fact owned by Hartech when the rebuild took place, I take comfort from that in the expectation they’d have thoroughly checked it over for all other wear items. I’d go with the general consensus of the Hartech engine rebuild.
To give you an idea on replacement of “wear” items, I’m just doing a suspension refresh on my 996 & the parts alone for coffin arms, shocks, springs, top mounts and other items is about £2k & I’d suspect the Hartech engined car has had suspension work given the MOT history.
As Edmundo said (& I introduced him to his new Cayman S as it belonged to a friend) there are some very fastidious owners of the early Caymans etc. who have spent eye watering amounts on maintenance with piles of invoices to support their efforts & you’re not paying a significant premium over most other cars relative to the cost of the upgrades/replacement items.
It’s a buyer’s market so don’t be afraid to try a lower offer if you’re genuinely interested.
To give you an idea on replacement of “wear” items, I’m just doing a suspension refresh on my 996 & the parts alone for coffin arms, shocks, springs, top mounts and other items is about £2k & I’d suspect the Hartech engined car has had suspension work given the MOT history.
As Edmundo said (& I introduced him to his new Cayman S as it belonged to a friend) there are some very fastidious owners of the early Caymans etc. who have spent eye watering amounts on maintenance with piles of invoices to support their efforts & you’re not paying a significant premium over most other cars relative to the cost of the upgrades/replacement items.
It’s a buyer’s market so don’t be afraid to try a lower offer if you’re genuinely interested.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
There are three that I have my eye on:Cat S repaired, but looks to be A1 condition: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-Cayman-S-3-4-Ge...
Not many details, but seems cheap: https://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-cayman-2...
Local to me, still under Porsche warranty, but really stretching my budget: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
If resale is on the horizon then gen 2 manual all the way.
Alot less gen 2 manuals made than gen 1
Lots of buyers just skim past 100k+ mile Porsches in the classifieds and you won't change that.
A well priced gen 1 Hartech at 70k miles might be a different proposition.
Who knows, you might wanna keep it as cheaper to own than an R8...and probably more fun at street legal speeds.
Alot less gen 2 manuals made than gen 1
Lots of buyers just skim past 100k+ mile Porsches in the classifieds and you won't change that.
A well priced gen 1 Hartech at 70k miles might be a different proposition.
Who knows, you might wanna keep it as cheaper to own than an R8...and probably more fun at street legal speeds.
Just refreshed my memory on the different write off categories and realised that Cat S is a structural repair, so that one is off the list.
Are the PDKs really that not sought after? I thought the PDK was a big improvement over the Tiptronic box, so I would have thought it would be a bit more popular?
Are the PDKs really that not sought after? I thought the PDK was a big improvement over the Tiptronic box, so I would have thought it would be a bit more popular?
jammy-git said:
Just refreshed my memory on the different write off categories and realised that Cat S is a structural repair, so that one is off the list.
Are the PDKs really that not sought after? I thought the PDK was a big improvement over the Tiptronic box, so I would have thought it would be a bit more popular?
In the gen 2, the manual is the rarer one compared to gen 1. They sold less gen 2 Caymans in general due to the recession and of those sold, many more went for the PDK as PDK wasn't available in gen 1. I think they made at least 5 times as many gen 1 manuals as gen 2 but others here will know better....might even be 6 or 7 times. Are the PDKs really that not sought after? I thought the PDK was a big improvement over the Tiptronic box, so I would have thought it would be a bit more popular?
The market could be very busy with sellers in 6 to 12 months so you need to think about how many similar cars your cat will be up against.
Do you want a manual or PDK for yourself?
Edited by Andyoz on Saturday 23 May 16:50
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