Discussion
Pitpass reporting it could be the end of the road for them https://www.pitpass.com/66980/End-of-the-road-for-...
Abiteboul says Renault planning a "very long stay" in F1 https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/abiteboul-renau...
Thoughts? They're the only team using the Renault engine next year.
Abiteboul says Renault planning a "very long stay" in F1 https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/abiteboul-renau...
Thoughts? They're the only team using the Renault engine next year.
Nothing much factual in that.. and if course Abiteboul is planning long term - doesn't mean it'll happen though.
It's very clear Renault's F1 push hasn't ticked as many boxes as hoped and now the financial power behind the team has its own worries.
I think if they're gonna depart the first announcement we hear will also be the final announcement.
It's very clear Renault's F1 push hasn't ticked as many boxes as hoped and now the financial power behind the team has its own worries.
I think if they're gonna depart the first announcement we hear will also be the final announcement.
Is the Pitpass story based on a report by Christain Sylt who has been doing nothing but talking down F1 since Coronavirus became an issue. Having said that if Renault is struggling keeping a F1 team seems unlikely.
Missed Apex have suggested Renault have approached a potential buyer.
Most F1 journalists seem to be maintaining radio silence.
Missed Apex have suggested Renault have approached a potential buyer.
Most F1 journalists seem to be maintaining radio silence.
Chrisgr31 said:
Is the Pitpass story based on a report by Christain Sylt who has been doing nothing but talking down F1 since Coronavirus became an issue.
Since before Coronavirus became an issue.But you have to wonder -- Renault is financed by the French government and are apparently closing factories including the Alpine one in Dieppe. Can they afford an F1 programme?
carl_w said:
But you have to wonder -- Renault is financed by the French government and are apparently closing factories including the Alpine one in Dieppe. Can they afford an F1 programme?
That's a many layered question. Renault are slightly stuffed overall financially, so technically they can't afford anything.However, that assumes an F1 team is a luxury or willy waving exercise. If the F1 team were effective at promoting the namesake brand and Renault sold more road cars as a result, then even whilst losing money Renault would only be worse off by sacking off the F1 team. That's not quite how it's worked out of course, their F1 effort has amounted to little and whatever positive exposure they were aiming for, constant engine blow-ups and losing to the British McLaren isn't exactly good for the brand. In fact they have shown the world that given the choice, not a single other team wants the Renault engine anymore.
It's even more complex than that however, as the French government are propping up the whole Renault outfit including the F1 team in order to maintain economic activity, maintain their place in the world as a car building nation and, in theory, keep voters happy. That last point about keeping voters happy might well determine the fate of the F1 team and even Renault themselves.. Voters might have a different set of priorities as the world moves on from CV and in to I expect a lengthy economic downturn.
Anyway, if you look at the whole thing in terms of purely financial performance, it hasn't been 'affordable' for years. That's not to say the French won't somehow find a way to justify keeping the show on the road. Personally, I think the writing was on the wall a while ago and it's likely that with a shift in political focus, the F1 team will be sold. Irrespective of how likely it might be that they would do better in F1 post cost caps and under the new regs.
Time will tell - probably not a lot of time given the rumours.
TheDeuce said:
That's a many layered question. Renault are slightly stuffed overall financially, so technically they can't afford anything.
However, that assumes an F1 team is a luxury or willy waving exercise. If the F1 team were effective at promoting the namesake brand and Renault sold more road cars as a result, then even whilst losing money Renault would only be worse off by sacking off the F1 team. That's not quite how it's worked out of course, their F1 effort has amounted to little and whatever positive exposure they were aiming for, constant engine blow-ups and losing to the British McLaren isn't exactly good for the brand. In fact they have shown the world that given the choice, not a single other team wants the Renault engine anymore.
It's even more complex than that however, as the French government are propping up the whole Renault outfit including the F1 team in order to maintain economic activity, maintain their place in the world as a car building nation and, in theory, keep voters happy. That last point about keeping voters happy might well determine the fate of the F1 team and even Renault themselves.. Voters might have a different set of priorities as the world moves on from CV and in to I expect a lengthy economic downturn.
Anyway, if you look at the whole thing in terms of purely financial performance, it hasn't been 'affordable' for years. That's not to say the French won't somehow find a way to justify keeping the show on the road. Personally, I think the writing was on the wall a while ago and it's likely that with a shift in political focus, the F1 team will be sold. Irrespective of how likely it might be that they would do better in F1 post cost caps and under the new regs.
Time will tell - probably not a lot of time given the rumours.
The Merc Board see F1 as investment, but the Renault Board and Govt will see it as a cost. When you need £5bn to keep the doors open, the F1 team must be the first thing to go? However, that assumes an F1 team is a luxury or willy waving exercise. If the F1 team were effective at promoting the namesake brand and Renault sold more road cars as a result, then even whilst losing money Renault would only be worse off by sacking off the F1 team. That's not quite how it's worked out of course, their F1 effort has amounted to little and whatever positive exposure they were aiming for, constant engine blow-ups and losing to the British McLaren isn't exactly good for the brand. In fact they have shown the world that given the choice, not a single other team wants the Renault engine anymore.
It's even more complex than that however, as the French government are propping up the whole Renault outfit including the F1 team in order to maintain economic activity, maintain their place in the world as a car building nation and, in theory, keep voters happy. That last point about keeping voters happy might well determine the fate of the F1 team and even Renault themselves.. Voters might have a different set of priorities as the world moves on from CV and in to I expect a lengthy economic downturn.
Anyway, if you look at the whole thing in terms of purely financial performance, it hasn't been 'affordable' for years. That's not to say the French won't somehow find a way to justify keeping the show on the road. Personally, I think the writing was on the wall a while ago and it's likely that with a shift in political focus, the F1 team will be sold. Irrespective of how likely it might be that they would do better in F1 post cost caps and under the new regs.
Time will tell - probably not a lot of time given the rumours.
Piginapoke said:
The Merc Board see F1 as investment, but the Renault Board and Govt will see it as a cost. When you need £5bn to keep the doors open, the F1 team must be the first thing to go?
I think it'll just come down to whether or not the politicians feel they get enough voter approval from having a French F1 team, and whether or not the team is positive enough for Renault's brand to justify whatever cost it represents.Renault F1 will stay or depart at the whim of a politicians pen. That's the problem with state ownership, things don't always go - or remain for the right long term reasons.
In this case, in business terms Renault have probably had an F1 team for longer than they can justify, given the performance. One can only assume the politicians however have felt they get something worthwhile from supporting it's existence.
TheDeuce said:
I think it'll just come down to whether or not the politicians feel they get enough voter approval from having a French F1 team, and whether or not the team is positive enough for Renault's brand to justify whatever cost it represents.
Renault F1 will stay or depart at the whim of a politicians pen. That's the problem with state ownership, things don't always go - or remain for the right long term reasons.
In this case, in business terms Renault have probably had an F1 team for longer than they can justify, given the performance. One can only assume the politicians however have felt they get something worthwhile from supporting it's existence.
French government only has a small stake in Renault though in these current times F1 doesn't bode well in the short term and the French gov't isn't keen on giving them a bailout.Renault F1 will stay or depart at the whim of a politicians pen. That's the problem with state ownership, things don't always go - or remain for the right long term reasons.
In this case, in business terms Renault have probably had an F1 team for longer than they can justify, given the performance. One can only assume the politicians however have felt they get something worthwhile from supporting it's existence.
F1 ultimately is in the hands of the board. You have to remember that when Carlos Ghosn took over the Renault-Nissan group he had a reputation as a cost-cutting penny pincher, the F1 side were quaking in their boots but according to some it turned out Ghosn didn't need much persuasion at all.
entropy said:
French government only has a small stake in Renault though in these current times F1 doesn't bode well in the short term and the French gov't isn't keen on giving them a bailout.
F1 ultimately is in the hands of the board. You have to remember that when Carlos Ghosn took over the Renault-Nissan group he had a reputation as a cost-cutting penny pincher, the F1 side were quaking in their boots but according to some it turned out Ghosn didn't need much persuasion at all.
True, but Renault are asking for the bailout and the government could quite well say yes, on the condition that the F1 team is also sold, to cut spending in the next couple of years.F1 ultimately is in the hands of the board. You have to remember that when Carlos Ghosn took over the Renault-Nissan group he had a reputation as a cost-cutting penny pincher, the F1 side were quaking in their boots but according to some it turned out Ghosn didn't need much persuasion at all.
It's all the same thing in the end - one way or another the person giving/lending the money has a level of influence over how it's spent, and what they're seen to be supporting/paying for.
Apparently everythings for sale. But its the cost of running it that was the previous problem.
This is now pretty much resolved by the cost cap and the teams will be able to at least break even in the future with the fairer distribution of earnings and less need for masses of big money sponsors.
Seems like an odd time to dump a sign of french pride.
At the end of the day all the factory teams beaver away and break new ground engineering wise.
Just because some of them are 1 second off the pace doesnt render their engineering efforts useless.
This is just distraction as there are a shed load of british teams worrying at the moment as we have seen already.
Too many for the UK government to care about any team in particular.
I think its more likely Renault will now stick around.
If the sport has a serious problem getting going again they are all in trouble.
This is now pretty much resolved by the cost cap and the teams will be able to at least break even in the future with the fairer distribution of earnings and less need for masses of big money sponsors.
Seems like an odd time to dump a sign of french pride.
At the end of the day all the factory teams beaver away and break new ground engineering wise.
Just because some of them are 1 second off the pace doesnt render their engineering efforts useless.
This is just distraction as there are a shed load of british teams worrying at the moment as we have seen already.
Too many for the UK government to care about any team in particular.
I think its more likely Renault will now stick around.
If the sport has a serious problem getting going again they are all in trouble.
sgtBerbatov said:
entropy said:
sgtBerbatov said:
Alain Prost to buy the team, resurrect Prost GP.
Why would he do such a thing? He never enjoyed it first time around and getting sponsorship is much harder now.TheDeuce said:
True, but Renault are asking for the bailout and the government could quite well say yes, on the condition that the F1 team is also sold, to cut spending in the next couple of years.
It's all the same thing in the end - one way or another the person giving/lending the money has a level of influence over how it's spent, and what they're seen to be supporting/paying for.
They've only gone and done it! It's all the same thing in the end - one way or another the person giving/lending the money has a level of influence over how it's spent, and what they're seen to be supporting/paying for.
Stipulation for greater emphasis on eco-technology https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52814074?xtor=...
Is it going to impact F1?
sgtBerbatov said:
I said it as a joke, but given this is 2020 anything is possible beyond reason.
I know, looking for an excuse to make it a discussionentropy said:
TheDeuce said:
True, but Renault are asking for the bailout and the government could quite well say yes, on the condition that the F1 team is also sold, to cut spending in the next couple of years.
It's all the same thing in the end - one way or another the person giving/lending the money has a level of influence over how it's spent, and what they're seen to be supporting/paying for.
They've only gone and done it! It's all the same thing in the end - one way or another the person giving/lending the money has a level of influence over how it's spent, and what they're seen to be supporting/paying for.
Stipulation for greater emphasis on eco-technology https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52814074?xtor=...
Is it going to impact F1?
In the mean time, whilst Renault thrash out all the changes they need to make to keep the government happy to sign off the 8bn, I doubt we'll hear very much of substance regards what the F1 teams future might look like. All we know is that the government hasn't moved to directly discourage Renault from keeping the team, which is of course great news for the team, for now.
It might still prove to be the case that the government remain of the view that France should have an F1 team regardless of performance or economic value.
Meanwhile, Williams have kindly stepped in and taken the eyes of the F1 media away from Renault's current predicament..
TheDeuce said:
Meanwhile, Williams have kindly stepped in and taken the eyes of the F1 media away from Renault's current predicament..
Unfortunately it's not just this team or that team in trouble. F1 is in trouble right now. There are current stories and rumours about two thirds of the teams on the grid - manufacturers thinking of pulling out, teams for sale, massive job cuts, no races yet in 2020. It's not a question of who, but who first.thegreenhell said:
Unfortunately it's not just this team or that team in trouble. F1 is in trouble right now. There are current stories and rumours about two thirds of the teams on the grid - manufacturers thinking of pulling out, teams for sale, massive job cuts, no races yet in 2020. It's not a question of who, but who first.
Well yes, it's a worrying time for everyone, and the sport itself. But whilst everyone normally worries in times of economic uncertainty, most do in fact find a way through - some even prosper on the other side of the disaster they face.I think the current combination of factors influencing F1 have brought forward the day of reckoning for a few teams that probably were already unlikely to remain as they are today for very much longer in any case - Williams being the prime example.. I expect the majority will pull through ok and all suffer to a degree but relative to one another remain in a similar position overall.
The one big problem is that the sport relies upon 20 cars... that could prove impossible at extreme short notice. I think something radical needs to be considered to re-format the agreements in place to ensure the sport can scale up/down in real-time as needs be, because there might yet be some very big surprises down the line. We could lose a team overnight mid season due to knock on effects such as sponsors collapsing. This whole period has demonstrated that F1 is easily destabilised by anything much unplanned interfering with what is expected - needs more flexibility.
thegreenhell said:
Unfortunately it's not just this team or that team in trouble. F1 is in trouble right now. There are current stories and rumours about two thirds of the teams on the grid - manufacturers thinking of pulling out, teams for sale, massive job cuts, no races yet in 2020. It's not a question of who, but who first.
The real question is how much is rumour and how much is fact. It has been rumoured that Mercedes and Renault would pull out, both have denied it. It’s been rumoured there will be no races this year, but it looks as though racing will be starting in July.With the budget cut coming it’s probably a good time to sell at present as buyers know the expense going forward and if they can use it for global advertising Red Bull and Mercedes style then it starts to look like a good investment particularly if the costs are capped and effectively covered by the money share from Liberty.
Many of the journalists have been relatively quiet during this period the rumour and speculation appears to come from a select few social media commentators and you do have to Wonder what their vested interest is.
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