Opinions on a 20k Porsche
Discussion
Hopefully the Porsche experts on here can offer me some good advice-
So within the next few months I'm looking at buying myself a new car for my 40th coming up and after bouncing ideas around in my head for months I keep coming back to Porsche.
I should stress this will be a weekend car, I have a Volvo estate for the daily stuff so practicality isn't an issue but I don't want to go as raw as say Caterham for example.
I've looked at loads of options, including maintenance costs and running costs for a couple of local specialists, which are what I would expect.
I keep coming back to the 987.2 Cayman S as the answer, I would love a 911 but I don't think it's realistic, I do like the 996 style personally but the whole bore scoring thing would I think spoil the experience for me and Hartech rebuild cars seem non existent in my budget.
I would prefer a coupe to convertible, I currently have an MX-5 for track days and as much fun as it is with the top down I prefer a tin top so I have discounted Boxters.
The 987.2 variant seems to have got rid of the common issues in the main such as bore score, IMS, RMS, etc so it seems to be worth paying the premium over the 987.1 models.
Before I start going out to view actual cars and bothering sellers and dealers is there anything I have missed or gotten wrong in my logic here?
Thanks in advance
So within the next few months I'm looking at buying myself a new car for my 40th coming up and after bouncing ideas around in my head for months I keep coming back to Porsche.
I should stress this will be a weekend car, I have a Volvo estate for the daily stuff so practicality isn't an issue but I don't want to go as raw as say Caterham for example.
I've looked at loads of options, including maintenance costs and running costs for a couple of local specialists, which are what I would expect.
I keep coming back to the 987.2 Cayman S as the answer, I would love a 911 but I don't think it's realistic, I do like the 996 style personally but the whole bore scoring thing would I think spoil the experience for me and Hartech rebuild cars seem non existent in my budget.
I would prefer a coupe to convertible, I currently have an MX-5 for track days and as much fun as it is with the top down I prefer a tin top so I have discounted Boxters.
The 987.2 variant seems to have got rid of the common issues in the main such as bore score, IMS, RMS, etc so it seems to be worth paying the premium over the 987.1 models.
Before I start going out to view actual cars and bothering sellers and dealers is there anything I have missed or gotten wrong in my logic here?
Thanks in advance
I'm biased towards the 996, and the 3.4 is much less prone to bore score and IMS than the 3.6, if you don't mind the front lights (which i don't).
However, if the worry is enough to make you question it, you'll probably never get rid of the niggling doubt and spoil your enjoyment of the car. I know of a hartech rebuilt 996 ('99 c4) where the owner is looking for something like £12k leaving a lot of room to refresh anything you like. So i definitely wouldn't say that £20k won't get you a hartech rebuild 996 you will just have to be patient.
If you just can't find the right 996, then a 987.2 is definitely where I'd go next (unless the 981 continues to drop)
However, if the worry is enough to make you question it, you'll probably never get rid of the niggling doubt and spoil your enjoyment of the car. I know of a hartech rebuilt 996 ('99 c4) where the owner is looking for something like £12k leaving a lot of room to refresh anything you like. So i definitely wouldn't say that £20k won't get you a hartech rebuild 996 you will just have to be patient.
If you just can't find the right 996, then a 987.2 is definitely where I'd go next (unless the 981 continues to drop)
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I wouldn't listen to the horror stories. Possibly one of the finest sports car ever made imo and even if it does go Hartech can build better than factory with 3.7 and 3.9.
The 987 better cars definitely but you'll be lapping their best time on circuit within weeks. The 996 will take you years to get the best out of and I love the styling. Cayman S Boxster S more car for your money ie newer cars with better interiors but I dont mind the 996 interior. I think with the right use of materials he CSRs from RPM have shown how nice the interiors can be.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I wouldn't listen to the horror stories. Possibly one of the finest sports car ever made imo and even if it does go Hartech can build better than factory with 3.7 and 3.9.
The 987 better cars definitely but you'll be lapping their best time on circuit within weeks. The 996 will take you years to get the best out of and I love the styling. Cayman S Boxster S more car for your money ie newer cars with better interiors but I dont mind the 996 interior. I think with the right use of materials he CSRs from RPM have shown how nice the interiors can be.
If you want a 911 don't compromise, I paid £11.3k for a 996.2, c2, manual non sunroof with 89k. At that price you don't have to rebuild should it do the worst, just sell it on as a project and lose a few K?
They won't all score the bores, just roll the dice get it PPI first. Send oil away every year if you want to keep an eye on engine health.
They won't all score the bores, just roll the dice get it PPI first. Send oil away every year if you want to keep an eye on engine health.
I'd be going for a 987.2 given the choice.
I used to have a 987.1 (Cayman S) which was great, a few cars later I went for a 997 (c2s) which I currently have but regret the decision. For me the only downside to the Cayman is no back seats, if they aren't required go for the Cayman as it's the better drive in my opinion.
Dunc.
I used to have a 987.1 (Cayman S) which was great, a few cars later I went for a 997 (c2s) which I currently have but regret the decision. For me the only downside to the Cayman is no back seats, if they aren't required go for the Cayman as it's the better drive in my opinion.
Dunc.
Thanks for all the input, it is appreciated. Im not in a rush to buy so.ill probably keep an eye on bothe the 987.2 and the 996 still to see what comes up.
I havent tried a Csterham but I do the odd driving holiday with friends and I think a Caterham would be too raw for a week behind the wheel everyday.
I havent tried a Csterham but I do the odd driving holiday with friends and I think a Caterham would be too raw for a week behind the wheel everyday.
Definitely 987.2 manual.
When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
Edited by Andyoz on Monday 1st June 10:01
If you're looking for a rebuilt 911 then this has been discussed a lot on the other thread:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Might be worth a look. Rebuilt and in budget.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Might be worth a look. Rebuilt and in budget.
Also, don't discount the 987.1 Cayman either.
IMO, half the cost of an engine rebuild is priced in and you probably won't need it (keep the money saved in your war chest).
The gen 1 also has the benefit of alot more manual examples out there and you can get it without the PCM sat nav thing that just dates all cars. I'd also get non PASM personally but that's me as yours is just a weekend car. One less thing to go wrong and makes a suspension refresh cheaper.
IMO, half the cost of an engine rebuild is priced in and you probably won't need it (keep the money saved in your war chest).
The gen 1 also has the benefit of alot more manual examples out there and you can get it without the PCM sat nav thing that just dates all cars. I'd also get non PASM personally but that's me as yours is just a weekend car. One less thing to go wrong and makes a suspension refresh cheaper.
shalmaneser said:
If you're looking for a rebuilt 911 then this has been discussed a lot on the other thread:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Might be worth a look. Rebuilt and in budget.
Bit of a strange engine rebuild history, but if it all stacks up, it could be a good carhttps://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Might be worth a look. Rebuilt and in budget.
Bert
Andyoz said:
Definitely 987.2 manual.
When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
As discussed elsewhere, i've just made a similar switch to the one mentioned above (987.2 CS manual to Elise S2 Sports Racer).When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
Edited by Andyoz on Monday 1st June 10:01
Chalk and cheese cars - if you're used to Porsches (as I am) then a Lotus feels very different and a refreshing change. If you're new to Porsches, then the 987.2 is a great place to start if you're worried about reliability.
I would add though, that whilst they are pretty bulletproof, they can provide big bills if you're unwary. Clutch and flywheel especially - you're unlikely to get much changes out of £2-2.5k for both of those.
Flamesuit on...but I would go for a 987.2 Boxster S over a Cayman S. The extra dynamism of the Cayman is hard to detect at even enthusiastic speeds, but the drop top is more of an event more of the time, especially with a Carnewal or PSE fitted.
Plus they're a couple of grand cheaper.
KPB1973 said:
Andyoz said:
Definitely 987.2 manual.
When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
As discussed elsewhere, i've just made a similar switch to the one mentioned above (987.2 CS manual to Elise S2 Sports Racer).When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
Chalk and cheese cars - if you're used to Porsches (as I am) then a Lotus feels very different and a refreshing change. If you're new to Porsches, then the 987.2 is a great place to start if you're worried about reliability.
One thing about the Lotus is if an engine grenades itself it's ALOT cheaper to replace. After driving his Exige, I'm gagging to try a later V6 Exige and an Evora. The on/off cam of the Toyota 2ZZ 4cyl would bug me for road use I suspect but I need a longer go on one . Photos of Lotus's generally don't do them justice either. Here's his.
I'd still recommend the OP at least drive one seeing as they track an MX-5.
Andyoz said:
Yes, I'd say the Cayman S is a great stepping stone into something like a Lotus later.
One thing about the Lotus is if an engine grenades itself it's ALOT cheaper to replace. After driving his Exige, I'm gagging to try a later V6 Exige and an Evora. The on/off cam of the Toyota 2ZZ 4cyl would bug me for road use I suspect but I need a longer go on one . Photos of Lotus's generally don't do them justice either. Here's his.
I'd still recommend the OP at least drive one seeing as they track an MX-5.
Nice car. Slight thread drift but the Toyota lump is a lot quicker off cam than it is sometimes given credit for.One thing about the Lotus is if an engine grenades itself it's ALOT cheaper to replace. After driving his Exige, I'm gagging to try a later V6 Exige and an Evora. The on/off cam of the Toyota 2ZZ 4cyl would bug me for road use I suspect but I need a longer go on one . Photos of Lotus's generally don't do them justice either. Here's his.
I'd still recommend the OP at least drive one seeing as they track an MX-5.
I'm finding that Lotus' n/a models are momentum cars more than acceleration ones, if that makes sense.
KPB1973 said:
Nice car. Slight thread drift but the Toyota lump is a lot quicker off cam than it is sometimes given credit for.
I'm finding that Lotus' n/a models are momentum cars more than acceleration ones, if that makes sense.
Yes, I didn't get enough of a drive but can see that you can carry so much speed into a corner you don't need loads of low down torque. An interesting car and I've been promised a longer drive once he gets it taxed again (it was mainly a track beast with mods to match).I'm finding that Lotus' n/a models are momentum cars more than acceleration ones, if that makes sense.
It was actually more conforatable than I expected!
Took me ages to actually get around to driving it as I was taking in all the shapes and stance. Definitley a classic.
KPB1973 said:
Andyoz said:
Definitely 987.2 manual.
When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
As discussed elsewhere, i've just made a similar switch to the one mentioned above (987.2 CS manual to Elise S2 Sports Racer).When I was looking last year the good gen 2 Caymans seemed over £20k but not anymore.
Even spice it up with an exhaust mods (Carnewal GT) and it's a great all rounder. I drove a friend's Lotus Exige S2 last week and did like it but more a one trick pony (I think I'll end up with a Lotus at some stage though!). With the Cayman, you can cruise to your favourite B road in comfort...beat on it for a bit then cruise back. It's a great entry into Porsche ownership and you'll either get hooked on the Flat 6 engine or not
Have you driven a Cayman and 911 back to back? As you've got the estate sounds like you definitely don't need the 911 rear seats anyway.
Edited by Andyoz on Monday 1st June 10:01
Chalk and cheese cars - if you're used to Porsches (as I am) then a Lotus feels very different and a refreshing change. If you're new to Porsches, then the 987.2 is a great place to start if you're worried about reliability.
I would add though, that whilst they are pretty bulletproof, they can provide big bills if you're unwary. Clutch and flywheel especially - you're unlikely to get much changes out of £2-2.5k for both of those.
Flamesuit on...but I would go for a 987.2 Boxster S over a Cayman S. The extra dynamism of the Cayman is hard to detect at even enthusiastic speeds, but the drop top is more of an event more of the time, especially with a Carnewal or PSE fitted.
Plus they're a couple of grand cheaper.
Andyoz said:
I'd still recommend the OP at least drive one seeing as they track an MX-5.
Strangely I didn't get on with mine (2007 exige), the suspension was just too hard for the roads around me - every bump felt like it was going to put the wheel through the clam. Had suspension refurbed and was the same - nice on a smooth track but then the engine was a bit frustrating.Still think 987 is the pick of the bunch being discussed in this thread so far.
Dunc.
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