EP3 Type R - vs - mk1 MX-5
Discussion
I'm looking to spend around £2k on a car, I think I've narrowed it down to a mk1 MX-5, or, a EP3 type R.
Can anyone offer opinions on this?
I know obviously the MX-5 is very slow, but it feels special. I've tested an MR2 and a Clio 182 and I didn't really feel much for them. But drove a MX-5 last week and it feels really special...
MX-5 a lot more unreliable in terms of being old and potentially rusty too.
I've just got rid of my mk7 Fiesta ST so the Civic would be much more like my car albeit with a lot less usable power.
Will be using it as my only car but I don't need any practicality. Also will use for track days and drag racing.
Thanks
Can anyone offer opinions on this?
I know obviously the MX-5 is very slow, but it feels special. I've tested an MR2 and a Clio 182 and I didn't really feel much for them. But drove a MX-5 last week and it feels really special...
MX-5 a lot more unreliable in terms of being old and potentially rusty too.
I've just got rid of my mk7 Fiesta ST so the Civic would be much more like my car albeit with a lot less usable power.
Will be using it as my only car but I don't need any practicality. Also will use for track days and drag racing.
Thanks
Have had a rusty mk1 mx5 and still have a rusty ep3 for the time being. Completely different feel to both cars obviously, mx5 as you say feels special, you sit low down in a small cabin, feels like you're going faster than you actually are, where as the ep3 is dominated by the brilliant k20 engine, the rest of the car is almost irrelevant. The ep3 has as much if not worse of a problem with rust than the mx5 has, but all is forgiven when you hit the redline.
This is a genuine question, why would you drag race a £2K MX-5?
If there are reliability issues to be found this will be the quickest way of revealing them.
This is PH, so the answer is still MX-5.
I’ve owned a Mk 1 MX-5 at the same time as a DC2 ITR. Both are great fun in a very different way. The MX-5 was probably more fun just driving at 5/10 on the road, where the ITR could feel a bit dull with lifeless steering and just a lot of road noise. The EP3 is more refined but still a bit of a shopping trolley in normal driving. The ITR outrageous fun on track, where I never wanted the trackday to be over. The MX-5 felt slow and rather uncomposed on the track. That said they can be modified to be excellent track cars.
What’s more important to you, rear wheel drive open top motoring or being able to carry 4 rather than 1 passenger and having a lovely high revving engine?
If there are reliability issues to be found this will be the quickest way of revealing them.
This is PH, so the answer is still MX-5.
I’ve owned a Mk 1 MX-5 at the same time as a DC2 ITR. Both are great fun in a very different way. The MX-5 was probably more fun just driving at 5/10 on the road, where the ITR could feel a bit dull with lifeless steering and just a lot of road noise. The EP3 is more refined but still a bit of a shopping trolley in normal driving. The ITR outrageous fun on track, where I never wanted the trackday to be over. The MX-5 felt slow and rather uncomposed on the track. That said they can be modified to be excellent track cars.
What’s more important to you, rear wheel drive open top motoring or being able to carry 4 rather than 1 passenger and having a lovely high revving engine?
Dave. said:
I saw the topic title and thought the same. I currently have a Ep3 Civic type R and can honestly say it's made a big impact, it has by far the best NA 4 cylinder engine of its time and once you've experienced it going to any other 130-150hp 16v engine just sucks. Hence looking for upgrades is a tough call!!! At present I have upgraded suspension, poly bushes, cat back exhaust & intake combined with a semi aggressive geometry & sticky tyres. Spending another £2-4k going for forced induction can yield some very impressive HP figures on a otherwise standard block and having access to a Rotrex'd circa 350hp EP3 with a Kaaz LSD - it's unbelievable how good it is, you'd have to spend another £7k+ to get into a FK8 Civic or Megane R260+ to get close to the same experience.
As a result, as much as I want a 2 seater in my fleet for a bit of a giggle, I'm finding the only way to temp me into a MX5 now is one with Forced Induction be it a supercharger or turbo. From what I've experienced a circa 200hp Mx5 is about as close to perfection.I'd really like a go in one with a fully built (maybe bored out closer to 2.0l) high compression with throttle bodies an proper management which should get close to 200hp but I suspect that to build that kind of spec engine you'd be able to buy 2 or 3 Honda K20 engines!!
Also consider the Toyota MR2 mk3 ,, those can also benefit from the 190hp 1.8 16v Toyota engine which makes them kind of like a 1/2 price Elise or there are also quite a few Honda K20 powered ones being built as a 1/3 price Lotus Exige!!
The MX5 shouldn't be unreliable in terms of the mechanicals, to be fair they are pretty bomb proof.
Rust is the killer on MX5's mine will be sold off this year I imagine as an MOT failure because of the dreaded rust but the engine is solid as is the gearbox and its nearly 20 years old.
Im a big fan of the EP3 type R too but i don't think they are really comparable
Rust is the killer on MX5's mine will be sold off this year I imagine as an MOT failure because of the dreaded rust but the engine is solid as is the gearbox and its nearly 20 years old.
Im a big fan of the EP3 type R too but i don't think they are really comparable
Jamescrs said:
Im a big fan of the EP3 type R too but i don't think they are really comparable
Agree, I see them as car which can compliment each other well. You can use the Civic daily knowing you have additional seats/boot space/comfort but you won't feel that you missed out if/when there is an opportunity to give it some beans an let it scream out past 8000rpm and fire it through some corners. Other days the suns out an you fancy a little blast whilst travelling light, grab the keys to the MX5.Would selling a Fiesta St and putting £2000-2500 into a Civic Type R and giving it a few months to iron out any niggles then buying a "fixer upper" MX5 for sub Shed Money be an option?
mrtwisty said:
How does an ep3 have 'a lot less useable power' than a mk7 Fiesta st?
I'd go for the MX-5. Or more likely Eunos - better spec, possibility of less rust.
Possible alternative to the Mazda - MG TF?
Possible alternative to the Honda - Celica T-Sport?
My Fiesta ST had 260 lb ft of torque... a Civic type-R has 130...I'd go for the MX-5. Or more likely Eunos - better spec, possibility of less rust.
Possible alternative to the Mazda - MG TF?
Possible alternative to the Honda - Celica T-Sport?
You have to rev the nuts off it whereas the ST has power available all the time in every gear.
Not at all interested in the MG but ty for the suggestion. Celica are meant to be good but I just cant stand the way they look.
aka_kerrly said:
I saw the topic title and thought the same.
I currently have a Ep3 Civic type R and can honestly say it's made a big impact, it has by far the best NA 4 cylinder engine of its time and once you've experienced it going to any other 130-150hp 16v engine just sucks. Hence looking for upgrades is a tough call!!! At present I have upgraded suspension, poly bushes, cat back exhaust & intake combined with a semi aggressive geometry & sticky tyres. Spending another £2-4k going for forced induction can yield some very impressive HP figures on a otherwise standard block and having access to a Rotrex'd circa 350hp EP3 with a Kaaz LSD - it's unbelievable how good it is, you'd have to spend another £7k+ to get into a FK8 Civic or Megane R260+ to get close to the same experience.
As a result, as much as I want a 2 seater in my fleet for a bit of a giggle, I'm finding the only way to temp me into a MX5 now is one with Forced Induction be it a supercharger or turbo. From what I've experienced a circa 200hp Mx5 is about as close to perfection.I'd really like a go in one with a fully built (maybe bored out closer to 2.0l) high compression with throttle bodies an proper management which should get close to 200hp but I suspect that to build that kind of spec engine you'd be able to buy 2 or 3 Honda K20 engines!!
Also consider the Toyota MR2 mk3 ,, those can also benefit from the 190hp 1.8 16v Toyota engine which makes them kind of like a 1/2 price Elise or there are also quite a few Honda K20 powered ones being built as a 1/3 price Lotus Exige!!
Yeah I am looking forward to trying the legendary engine - going to drive an EP3 this evening. I currently have a Ep3 Civic type R and can honestly say it's made a big impact, it has by far the best NA 4 cylinder engine of its time and once you've experienced it going to any other 130-150hp 16v engine just sucks. Hence looking for upgrades is a tough call!!! At present I have upgraded suspension, poly bushes, cat back exhaust & intake combined with a semi aggressive geometry & sticky tyres. Spending another £2-4k going for forced induction can yield some very impressive HP figures on a otherwise standard block and having access to a Rotrex'd circa 350hp EP3 with a Kaaz LSD - it's unbelievable how good it is, you'd have to spend another £7k+ to get into a FK8 Civic or Megane R260+ to get close to the same experience.
As a result, as much as I want a 2 seater in my fleet for a bit of a giggle, I'm finding the only way to temp me into a MX5 now is one with Forced Induction be it a supercharger or turbo. From what I've experienced a circa 200hp Mx5 is about as close to perfection.I'd really like a go in one with a fully built (maybe bored out closer to 2.0l) high compression with throttle bodies an proper management which should get close to 200hp but I suspect that to build that kind of spec engine you'd be able to buy 2 or 3 Honda K20 engines!!
Also consider the Toyota MR2 mk3 ,, those can also benefit from the 190hp 1.8 16v Toyota engine which makes them kind of like a 1/2 price Elise or there are also quite a few Honda K20 powered ones being built as a 1/3 price Lotus Exige!!
I have considered the MR2 mk3 - I went for a good drive and was quite unimpressed, just felt slow and jittery. I know you can get them with engine swaps but those are £5k+.
MiseryStreak said:
This is a genuine question, why would you drag race a £2K MX-5?
If there are reliability issues to be found this will be the quickest way of revealing them.
This is PH, so the answer is still MX-5.
I’ve owned a Mk 1 MX-5 at the same time as a DC2 ITR. Both are great fun in a very different way. The MX-5 was probably more fun just driving at 5/10 on the road, where the ITR could feel a bit dull with lifeless steering and just a lot of road noise. The EP3 is more refined but still a bit of a shopping trolley in normal driving. The ITR outrageous fun on track, where I never wanted the trackday to be over. The MX-5 felt slow and rather uncomposed on the track. That said they can be modified to be excellent track cars.
What’s more important to you, rear wheel drive open top motoring or being able to carry 4 rather than 1 passenger and having a lovely high revving engine?
About drag racing - you can drag race anything. I am not some serious racer... I just enjoy doing it fairly regularly. A few hard launches won't do much damage to a car... thrashing a car on track is a much quicker way of getting through components!If there are reliability issues to be found this will be the quickest way of revealing them.
This is PH, so the answer is still MX-5.
I’ve owned a Mk 1 MX-5 at the same time as a DC2 ITR. Both are great fun in a very different way. The MX-5 was probably more fun just driving at 5/10 on the road, where the ITR could feel a bit dull with lifeless steering and just a lot of road noise. The EP3 is more refined but still a bit of a shopping trolley in normal driving. The ITR outrageous fun on track, where I never wanted the trackday to be over. The MX-5 felt slow and rather uncomposed on the track. That said they can be modified to be excellent track cars.
What’s more important to you, rear wheel drive open top motoring or being able to carry 4 rather than 1 passenger and having a lovely high revving engine?
None of those things are super important to me. I don't mind front or rear wheel drive. Convertible or not. 1 v 4 passengers I don't care. Having a nice engine is great though.
I know the two cars are very different, but the MX-5 basically is a car I "desire" quite genuinely, whereas the Civic type r is just a car I think would make a lot of sense to me - and I didn't really like driving its rival the CLio 182. (even tho the clio looks a lot better)
Thanks for all the opinions. Whichever car I get, i will be making modifications to.
treeroy said:
My Fiesta ST had 260 lb ft of torque... a Civic type-R has 130...
You have to rev the nuts off it whereas the ST has power available all the time in every gear.
.
Hopefully this makes more sense once you've driven one. Everyone goes on about the amount of torque that a K20 engine has , comparing it to other 2.0 16v for example pug 306 GTI-6, Renault Clio 182s the Civic doesn't have a huge deficit but it does have between 20-40hp more than either of those engines. Once you've driven one you will realise the significance of the gear ratios combined with a lower final drive and having nearly 2000rpm of extra revs to play with makes, the engine is a lot more flexible than people give it credit for.You have to rev the nuts off it whereas the ST has power available all the time in every gear.
.
From what I've seen a Ep3 Civic and a Fiesta ST mk7 have within a couple hundreds of a second difference between them over a 1/4 miles , its the sensation of acceleration that may fool you;-)
aka_kerrly said:
Hopefully this makes more sense once you've driven one. Everyone goes on about the amount of torque that a K20 engine has , comparing it to other 2.0 16v for example pug 306 GTI-6, Renault Clio 182s the Civic doesn't have a huge deficit but it does have between 20-40hp more than either of those engines. Once you've driven one you will realise the significance of the gear ratios combined with a lower final drive and having nearly 2000rpm of extra revs to play with makes, the engine is a lot more flexible than people give it credit for.
From what I've seen a Ep3 Civic and a Fiesta ST mk7 have within a couple hundreds of a second difference between them over a 1/4 miles , its the sensation of acceleration that may fool you;-)
You are right. I drove a Ep3 this evening and before vtec, it actually still has plenty of punch. The reviews I've seen really exaggerate how big the difference is between off vtec and on vtec. And yes the gears are used in a completely different way from any other car i've driven. From what I've seen a Ep3 Civic and a Fiesta ST mk7 have within a couple hundreds of a second difference between them over a 1/4 miles , its the sensation of acceleration that may fool you;-)
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