Advertised prices a third over sold prices... What gives?
Discussion
Always on the look out for the next interesting classic but even beyond the price bubble that we can argue may or may not exist, since lockdown I can't fathom asking prices. EBay and physical auctions are showing sale prices remaining static whilst asking prices have gone up a good third,looking at vehicles in the 8 to 10k sold prices bracket now being advertised at 12 all the way up to 16!
Any theories behind why this is? Could it be as simple as a few chancing traders followed by private sellers thinking that price must be right because trader x put it up?
Any theories behind why this is? Could it be as simple as a few chancing traders followed by private sellers thinking that price must be right because trader x put it up?
This is interesting because it support my hypothesis about what is going to happen when lockdown ends. Completely different subject but I had a hotel booked for next week. Price was fine by me. This is way back, when all this nonsense started. It was cancelled and I was left hoping the hotel would in fact reopen by June and I could take my holiday. Hotel is still closed.
So it leaves me wondering what the pricing is going to be like when this hotel, that has been closed for months, reopens and I can look at making a reservation for later in the year.
Theory1 - they have taken a hit. They need to slash prices and get rooms filled. Times are uncertain, people have lost their jobs, the only way to attract punters is to offer some low low prices or they will be left with an empty hotel and no money, still
Theory2 - they have taken a hit, so in order to recoup their losses, they are going to pump prices up and squeeze people hard, under some arrogant assumption that people will still come irrespective.
Its theory 2 that I suspect will happen and maybe that is where your car prices relate to this unconnected situation. I think some business will decide that the only way they can survive is to pump up the prices and increase their margins to make up for the bad times. I'm sure there is a economic name for this but I don't know it. I dare say all it takes is one car dealer to take the opposite view and discount to win more business and then Mr High prices will start to get real. Then Mr discount reacts by not cutting prices quite so aggressively and then equilibrium is restored. It will just take time and in the meantime I will get rinsed on my holiday!
I'm reminded of Viz, back in the day when it suddenly went crazy and they were selling millions. After the hype died down, somewhere in there the writers put in some snarky comment about how the publishers had put the price up to compensate for the lower sales figures and maintain the same income. Viz is still going, so maybe it works!
So it leaves me wondering what the pricing is going to be like when this hotel, that has been closed for months, reopens and I can look at making a reservation for later in the year.
Theory1 - they have taken a hit. They need to slash prices and get rooms filled. Times are uncertain, people have lost their jobs, the only way to attract punters is to offer some low low prices or they will be left with an empty hotel and no money, still
Theory2 - they have taken a hit, so in order to recoup their losses, they are going to pump prices up and squeeze people hard, under some arrogant assumption that people will still come irrespective.
Its theory 2 that I suspect will happen and maybe that is where your car prices relate to this unconnected situation. I think some business will decide that the only way they can survive is to pump up the prices and increase their margins to make up for the bad times. I'm sure there is a economic name for this but I don't know it. I dare say all it takes is one car dealer to take the opposite view and discount to win more business and then Mr High prices will start to get real. Then Mr discount reacts by not cutting prices quite so aggressively and then equilibrium is restored. It will just take time and in the meantime I will get rinsed on my holiday!
I'm reminded of Viz, back in the day when it suddenly went crazy and they were selling millions. After the hype died down, somewhere in there the writers put in some snarky comment about how the publishers had put the price up to compensate for the lower sales figures and maintain the same income. Viz is still going, so maybe it works!
Edited by Stigproducts on Thursday 4th June 20:11
I see stuff now about advertised 25% higher than 6 months ago.
But does it sell, some maybe but a lot just sits there I suspect.
Personally, I'm on the lookout fr a new "classic" having sold my TVR (at a reduced to price) and my SL500 for (what it cost me).
I'm not prepared to pay the "new" prices for any of the possibles on my list, I'd rather wait and see what the next 6 months brings unless something comes up at a sensible price. Not prepared to be caught by the hype.
Maybe Car SOS & Bangers an Cash have something to do with it.
But does it sell, some maybe but a lot just sits there I suspect.
Personally, I'm on the lookout fr a new "classic" having sold my TVR (at a reduced to price) and my SL500 for (what it cost me).
I'm not prepared to pay the "new" prices for any of the possibles on my list, I'd rather wait and see what the next 6 months brings unless something comes up at a sensible price. Not prepared to be caught by the hype.
Maybe Car SOS & Bangers an Cash have something to do with it.
Having a quick look last night, I spotted a VW Corrado, ltd edition version, on @ £35,000, yes £35 grand. Either the crack in that part of Blighty is Über strong, or is a Corrado really £35,000 ??
That kind of cash buys some Awesome cars, who in their right mind would pay even half that sum, for a Corrado!
That kind of cash buys some Awesome cars, who in their right mind would pay even half that sum, for a Corrado!
paintman said:
You can ask for the sun the moon & the stars.
What you actually get may well be rather different!
Not to mention you may put a genuine buyer off.
^^THIS^^What you actually get may well be rather different!
Not to mention you may put a genuine buyer off.
Once this lockdown thing is done and dusted I'm looking for something new but at the prices currently being asked I'm keeping my money. Not prepared to pay some of the prices asked when you know the seller has bought the car a few months earlier and then added a couple of grand.
(I have been watching one particular vehicle appearing regularly on a well known auction site, each time with a different seller, each time a barn find and each time the price goes up. Nothing much done to it during it's travels by the look of it either).
It is close to my experience of looking for a house after the 2007+ recession started. Many, probably most people with a decent house decided not to move. Houses that were put on the market seemed to fall mainly into one of two groups. The smallest group consisted of decent houses at a reasonable price for the economic situation and they sold as soon as the agent could put them on the internet. Most of the remainder had some problems and were on the market for months, even years, at prices that were way too high, presumably extrapolated from the last price boom.
You don't want to buy above a certain point, they don't want to sell below a certain point, why is their desire any less important than yours?
Consider also, everyone is still in lockdown, so no rush to sell, it's not like they have to sell and buy something else, so why not take a punt, someone might buy it, and if not, no real loss, wait for all that pent up demand to kick in when all those desperate to buy realise they've almost missed the whole summer waiting for a car to drop a few quid.
Consider also, everyone is still in lockdown, so no rush to sell, it's not like they have to sell and buy something else, so why not take a punt, someone might buy it, and if not, no real loss, wait for all that pent up demand to kick in when all those desperate to buy realise they've almost missed the whole summer waiting for a car to drop a few quid.
paintman said:
You can ask for the sun the moon & the stars.
What you actually get may well be rather different!
Not to mention you may put a genuine buyer off.
Exactly that. there are 2 cars I'd be interested in at their value based on sold prices, but their asking prices are so high it just makes me question the sellers knowledge, and by extension, how well the car has been looked after.What you actually get may well be rather different!
Not to mention you may put a genuine buyer off.
I enquired about one a while back that was advertised at a higher price than sold prices indicated - I suggested a figure, got told thanks but no, I'll put it on ebay.. it appeared on ebay, I finished top bidder with a price a little under what I'd suggested I was prepared to pay, seller still insisted that it wasn't the true value of the car. rightyo then..
sociopath said:
You don't want to buy above a certain point, they don't want to sell below a certain point, why is their desire any less important than yours?
Consider also, everyone is still in lockdown, so no rush to sell, it's not like they have to sell and buy something else, so why not take a punt, someone might buy it, and if not, no real loss, wait for all that pent up demand to kick in when all those desperate to buy realise they've almost missed the whole summer waiting for a car to drop a few quid.
Good point to be truthfulConsider also, everyone is still in lockdown, so no rush to sell, it's not like they have to sell and buy something else, so why not take a punt, someone might buy it, and if not, no real loss, wait for all that pent up demand to kick in when all those desperate to buy realise they've almost missed the whole summer waiting for a car to drop a few quid.
sociopath said:
You don't want to buy above a certain point, they don't want to sell below a certain point, why is their desire any less important than yours?
Consider also, everyone is still in lockdown, so no rush to sell, it's not like they have to sell and buy something else, so why not take a punt, someone might buy it, and if not, no real loss, wait for all that pent up demand to kick in when all those desperate to buy realise they've almost missed the whole summer waiting for a car to drop a few quid.
Or alternatively carry on sitting with an unsold car because all the buyers bought elsewhere are reasonable prices.Classic cars are a finite resource but there are plenty of them about for sale, especially when a ton of people have lost their job and need to liquidize some assets.Consider also, everyone is still in lockdown, so no rush to sell, it's not like they have to sell and buy something else, so why not take a punt, someone might buy it, and if not, no real loss, wait for all that pent up demand to kick in when all those desperate to buy realise they've almost missed the whole summer waiting for a car to drop a few quid.
Don't forget OP, what you are seeing are the unsold cars.It's quite likely anything reasonably priced got bought and the dreamers are the ones with their ads up.
I've seen examples where cars bought at the ACA auction at Kings Lynn appear on a dealer website 3 days later with a huge markup and almost certainly zero work gone into preparing it for sale, usually just recycling the ACA website pictures. Answer is to just get yourself to Kings Lynn and buy it direct!
Edited by Stigproducts on Friday 5th June 23:42
A good place to find 'real' world prices are the ebay - 'COMPLETED LISTINGS' - these list any car advertised therein and it's selling price - if it doesn't sell it also tells you this. too
Plenty don't sell.
I looked for a whole year for a particular car - all sellers were asking twice the price of anything that actually sold
and wouldn't be reasonable regarding price.
>
eventually I bought something very similar which I now beleive is better imo] for a very fair price. - both these cars had a Chevy LS1 fitted which is what I wanted
>
Like me if you can't find your first choice car - Look at similar vehicles I'm pleased I did
Plenty don't sell.I looked for a whole year for a particular car - all sellers were asking twice the price of anything that actually sold
and wouldn't be reasonable regarding price.>
eventually I bought something very similar which I now beleive is better imo] for a very fair price. - both these cars had a Chevy LS1 fitted which is what I wanted
>
Like me if you can't find your first choice car - Look at similar vehicles I'm pleased I did
Simple "Supply and Demand".
The hotel may well be able to charge a higher price for a hotel straight after lockdown as demand to get away will be high...if the hotel is in demand.
As time goes on people won't pay over the asking price and the hotels rooms won't be booked or price will have to reduce.
With cars the question will be will demand go up?
I doubt it because:
1) People will have lost their jobs
2) People will be questioning if they need a car
3) There will be less money around chasing those cars
But,
4) Some people will have saved money and be thinking 'sod it, life's too short'
5) Certain cars are in short supply so demand will still be high
Really depends if you're chasing a car in short supply, with other interested parties, keeping demand and prices high.
The hotel may well be able to charge a higher price for a hotel straight after lockdown as demand to get away will be high...if the hotel is in demand.
As time goes on people won't pay over the asking price and the hotels rooms won't be booked or price will have to reduce.
With cars the question will be will demand go up?
I doubt it because:
1) People will have lost their jobs
2) People will be questioning if they need a car
3) There will be less money around chasing those cars
But,
4) Some people will have saved money and be thinking 'sod it, life's too short'
5) Certain cars are in short supply so demand will still be high
Really depends if you're chasing a car in short supply, with other interested parties, keeping demand and prices high.
I attend classic car auctions regularly, and in the last 2 months, Brightwells, CCA, Bonhams and H+H have all had online classic car auctions. The achieved prices still seem to be at pre Covid19 prices, or even higher in some places!
The online DVLA registration number auction achieved prices a good 10% - 20% above previous prices for similar ones I reckon. I can only put it down to many more people stuck at home viewing these auctions, whereas they would normally be out doing something else. Also, a lot of people now have money (those who haven't been laid off) thatt hey can't spend at pubs, restaurants or going abroad on holidays.
The online DVLA registration number auction achieved prices a good 10% - 20% above previous prices for similar ones I reckon. I can only put it down to many more people stuck at home viewing these auctions, whereas they would normally be out doing something else. Also, a lot of people now have money (those who haven't been laid off) thatt hey can't spend at pubs, restaurants or going abroad on holidays.
I think we're living in a make believe world since lockdown. As said in an earlier post, most people have no real reason to sell currently. Many are making the most of furlough, govt. grants, deferred VAT and self assessment payments. On top of this many people are spending less for all the reasons we know: no eating out, little socialising, probably no summer holiday etc.
I believe when furlough ends in October and VAT and SA payments for the self employed need to be paid in January 2021 as well as 2020/21 payments on the horizon, then you will start seeing prices drop as many are forced to sell.
I believe when furlough ends in October and VAT and SA payments for the self employed need to be paid in January 2021 as well as 2020/21 payments on the horizon, then you will start seeing prices drop as many are forced to sell.
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