Carrera GT - an itch that will need scratching at some point

[RSVP911]

I’m in a bit of a mess - I keep looking at Carrera GT’s and have done so for years now, knowing that one day I might not be able to stop myself buying one . I’ve done a pretty good job of resisting so far; a heady combination of their price, combined with my technical ignorance has managed to keep me on the straight and narrow.

Imagine for a moment though, that the temptation simply became too great - how does someone know if they are buying a good one - who does one ask, what does one look for to ensure that they are spending their money wisely ?

Thoughts on a postcard

[993rsr]

Inspection at Reading/ talk to Andy Keywood/John Manning about any potential purchase. They know the cars residing in the UK.

A large proportion have not had the four year engine out services each time, that restricts you seeing if there is any cam lobe wear, not covered by any goodwill now from PCAC.

My advice would be do your due diligence, buy one with a very good history even if that means more miles, maybe not the ideal colour, and one that Reading have seen on a regular basis over the years.

Edited by 993rsr on Saturday 6th June 11:31

[RSVP911]

993rsr said:

Inspection at Reading/ talk to Andy Keywood/John Manning about any potential purchase. They know the cars residing in the UK.

A large proportion have not had the four year engine out services each time, that restricts you seeing if there is any cam lobe wear, not covered by any goodwill now from PCAC.

My advice would be do your due diligence, buy one with a very good history even if that means more miles, maybe not the ideal colour, and one that Reading have seen on a regular basis over the years.

Edited by 993rsr on Saturday 6th June 11:31

Thanks very much.

Roughly, what does a 4 year engine out service cost - or is it a case of, “how longs a piece off string”

[Meeten-5dulx]

I'll start at 20k if there is nothing major to rectify.....

[993rsr]

RSVP911 said:

993rsr said:

Inspection at Reading/ talk to Andy Keywood/John Manning about any potential purchase. They know the cars residing in the UK.

A large proportion have not had the four year engine out services each time, that restricts you seeing if there is any cam lobe wear, not covered by any goodwill now from PCAC.

My advice would be do your due diligence, buy one with a very good history even if that means more miles, maybe not the ideal colour, and one that Reading have seen on a regular basis over the years.

Edited by 993rsr on Saturday 6th June 11:31

Thanks very much.

Roughly, what does a 4 year engine out service cost - or is it a case of, “how longs a piece off string”

On average, every 4 years the costs increases by 25% for the service.

Mine is in for one now, as well as some cosmetic work - the carbon rear diffuser has some lacquer lifting so they are re-doing the entire piece, a large number of other small items outside of the normal engine out service including a not insignificant £1232 to strip the drivers side wing to get to the windscreen washer bottle as it was gunked up. It you take out these items it's around £7.5k + VAT. Not unreasonable IMO.

[Yellow491]

RSVP911 said:

993rsr said:

Inspection at Reading/ talk to Andy Keywood/John Manning about any potential purchase. They know the cars residing in the UK.

A large proportion have not had the four year engine out services each time, that restricts you seeing if there is any cam lobe wear, not covered by any goodwill now from PCAC.

My advice would be do your due diligence, buy one with a very good history even if that means more miles, maybe not the ideal colour, and one that Reading have seen on a regular basis over the years.

Edited by 993rsr on Saturday 6th June 11:31

Thanks very much.

Roughly, what does a 4 year engine out service cost - or is it a case of, “how longs a piece off string”

Exactly what rsr says,many properting to be experts,eye watering when they need parts.
4 year service,depends whats required,but expensive.
A lot of usa cars serviced at race shops or opc out in the sticks,
Go on you know you want to

[Cheib]

So would £10k a year be a conservative amount to allow for maintenance over a 10 yr period ? If say you owned the car for 10 years and had a clutch in that time and a few other parts needed replacing you’d be looking at something like £100k ?

The former SSO of Evo fame made an interesting comment about CGT’s in one of his recent blog posts....that he’s noticed a lot of low mileage cars coming to market which are presumably cars that are/were investments rather than cars that have been used and enjoyed.

https://karenable.com/supercar-market-update-q1-20...

I’ll be honest if I bought a car like this (I like RSVP think about it too much) I’d have to think about it as a “capital/asset allocation” as much as a car. That said I think when you look at what else you can buy for the money 812 TDF for example and what the F cars and 918 Spyder cost they do seem decent value...as much as a car at this price can.

[993rsr]

Cheib said:

So would £10k a year be a conservative amount to allow for maintenance over a 10 yr period ? If say you owned the car for 10 years and had a clutch in that time and a few other parts needed replacing you’d be looking at something like £100k ?

If you used it on the road, I suspect much less. In 10 years two engine out services so £15k, average £3k per year for the others, I'd say £50-70k if no track use, plus consumables.

[Cheib]

993rsr said:

Cheib said:

So would £10k a year be a conservative amount to allow for maintenance over a 10 yr period ? If say you owned the car for 10 years and had a clutch in that time and a few other parts needed replacing you’d be looking at something like £100k ?

If you used it on the road, I suspect much less. In 10 years two engine out services so £15k, average £3k per year for the others, I'd say £50-70k if no track use, plus consumables.

Thanks ! How much is the clutch ?

[stefan1]

As usual 993rsr is spot on. I would not buy a car that Andy K and team haven't inspected. Not because others cars aren't good, but just because almost all UK cars (including those imported) have been through the Reading workshops, and so there is no team better qualified to opine on a particular car. As the old adage goes - I would go for condition and service record over mileage.

I've found running costs to be more than reasonable - the engine out services (which I have had done religiously) are under £10k, and then it is just a question of whether you want to maintain the car irrespective of costs (e.g. elective cosmetic work), as some elective work can be expensive. Clutches should last 20k miles or more with the correct technique.

The only unexpected big bill I have had was for the gearbox rebuild last year, due to a notchy 2nd gear synchro. It is documented in my 12 year end out thread.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

With new synchros installed, and also revised forged differential components I am hoping that the car will be good for another 12 years at least!

I don't usually comment on values, but I still believe that in the long run this car will be seen and valued for what it is - one of the finest engineered cars of its type. I sometimes re-read the workshop manuals, as they show just how exceptional the car is.

My car was due to be shipped to Manthey Racing in early March to fit KW Variant 3 suspension (which I tried on a friend's car last year and which makes it even more special) - but C19 intervened! However, I am hoping to get it across later this month and then collect in July and do some road driving in the Eiffel mountains. I can't wait!

To the OP - I'd say go for it without hesitation!

[Phooey]

A friend of mine is seriously contemplating buying one too and had a chat with 993rsr recently - he really knows his stuff!

I'd have one in a heartbeat if I had the chance - a proper special supercar with an amazing story behind it's creation. I always think If you budgeted £10k/yr worst case scenario to run it you'd very likely get that back if and when you come to sell it, but the memories of owning such a car would be priceless. If you can, do it!

[Dr S]

The OP is a wise man. Several years I was also contemplating buying a CGT. At that time they were still cheap as chips compared to today. I had found an interesting example and pinged the dealer - but never heard back. I took this as a bad sign and did not move forward. Shortly thereafter prices skyrocketed.

[2010spy]

Is this the type of car that, say, x4 enthusiasts could buy together (with agreed rules). Or does that always end in tears

[RSVP911]

Dr S said:

The OP is a wise man. Several years I was also contemplating buying a CGT. At that time they were still cheap as chips compared to today. I had found an interesting example and pinged the dealer - but never heard back. I took this as a bad sign and did not move forward. Shortly thereafter prices skyrocketed.

Obviously not that wise - or I’d have bought one then

[RSVP911]

2010spy said:

Is this the type of car that, say, x4 enthusiasts could buy together (with agreed rules). Or does that always end in tears

Tears before bedtime I imagine

[Cheib]

2010spy said:

Is this the type of car that, say, x4 enthusiasts could buy together (with agreed rules). Or does that always end in tears

I think that’s very difficult....especially with 4 people. 2 could work I suppose but you’d need to agree how it’s used (track or no track) and also what happens if one wants to sell etc before you go in,

[RSVP911]

Phooey said:

A friend of mine is seriously contemplating buying one too and had a chat with 993rsr recently - he really knows his stuff!

I'd have one in a heartbeat if I had the chance - a proper special supercar with an amazing story behind it's creation. I always think If you budgeted £10k/yr worst case scenario to run it you'd very likely get that back if and when you come to sell it, but the memories of owning such a car would be priceless. If you can, do it!

Yep - other than the blue one at DK people who drive them seem to hold onto them for a very long time - which is a good sign

[RSVP911]

Yellow491 said:

RSVP911 said:

993rsr said:

Inspection at Reading/ talk to Andy Keywood/John Manning about any potential purchase. They know the cars residing in the UK.

A large proportion have not had the four year engine out services each time, that restricts you seeing if there is any cam lobe wear, not covered by any goodwill now from PCAC.

My advice would be do your due diligence, buy one with a very good history even if that means more miles, maybe not the ideal colour, and one that Reading have seen on a regular basis over the years.

Edited by 993rsr on Saturday 6th June 11:31

Thanks very much.

Roughly, what does a 4 year engine out service cost - or is it a case of, “how longs a piece off string”

Exactly what rsr says,many properting to be experts,eye watering when they need parts.
4 year service,depends whats required,but expensive.
A lot of usa cars serviced at race shops or opc out in the sticks,
Go on you know you want to

LOl - I have to say, it would be nice

[David W.]

RSVP911 said:

I’m in a bit of a mess - I keep looking at Carrera GT’s and have done so for years now, knowing that one day I might not be able to stop myself buying one . I’ve done a pretty good job of resisting so far; a heady combination of their price, combined with my technical ignorance has managed to keep me on the straight and narrow.

Imagine for a moment though, that the temptation simply became too great - how does someone know if they are buying a good one - who does one ask, what does one look for to ensure that they are spending their money wisely ?

Thoughts on a postcard

I think that’s the car that would be in the top 5 of many of us.
I followed a certain yellow one in a group on a Le Mans trip once, nothing on earth sounds better.
Then I watched this
https://youtu.be/8U89bMBOz0M
Don’t even know if it’s possible to buy one though.

[RSVP911]

Thanks stephen1, 993rsr , et all.

I feel the time is getting closer - not yet, but one day I hope - would love to take one touring when I have some time - this was me a few years ago :

https://youtu.be/iR2nVOK0WZU

Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 6th June 17:49