Suspension geo setup
Discussion
So I’ve bit the bullet and ordered the blistein sport suspension kit from Ben Lang to replace my gaz setup.
I just wondered who are the go to people for a full geo set up or will a respected Hunter 4 wheel alignment centre be able to cope with it?
I would be willing to travel 2-3 hours to get the work done properly.
I just wondered who are the go to people for a full geo set up or will a respected Hunter 4 wheel alignment centre be able to cope with it?
I would be willing to travel 2-3 hours to get the work done properly.
Definitely a specialist. I had a very bad experience with Hunter plus non-specialist.
Or even better, do it yourself. All you need is some fishing line, 2 straight edges slightly wider than the car, some method of setting up the car level and weighting it and some way of measuring camber.
For straight edges, I picked up some aluminium patio door runners at the scrappy.
Fishing line I had to buy - cheap!
To level, I had some square tube scrap and welded up four frames with plywood platforms and adjustable bolts for feet.
For weighting I used bags of cement, anything handy would do.
To measure camber, I had a vernier angle gauge to which I added a machine level. Used that against a straightedge, held vertically on the rim. However a smart phone level app gave good enough readings also, if your not worried about the odd 1/10th degree.
Once set up, it's great to be able to redo your own setup if it's disturbed following mechanical work. It also allows you to experiment with camber settings if you do some track days.
Or even better, do it yourself. All you need is some fishing line, 2 straight edges slightly wider than the car, some method of setting up the car level and weighting it and some way of measuring camber.
For straight edges, I picked up some aluminium patio door runners at the scrappy.
Fishing line I had to buy - cheap!
To level, I had some square tube scrap and welded up four frames with plywood platforms and adjustable bolts for feet.
For weighting I used bags of cement, anything handy would do.
To measure camber, I had a vernier angle gauge to which I added a machine level. Used that against a straightedge, held vertically on the rim. However a smart phone level app gave good enough readings also, if your not worried about the odd 1/10th degree.
Once set up, it's great to be able to redo your own setup if it's disturbed following mechanical work. It also allows you to experiment with camber settings if you do some track days.
I converted my Billies to height adjustable - used kits from Rally Design https://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?pro...
although I did not weld to the damper body I used 3 pointy grub screws
although I did not weld to the damper body I used 3 pointy grub screws
I second the vote for Mat Smith, he's a great TVR specialist, but he's in West Norfolk, which is about 180 miles from Newport, Gwent - you compute the rest to where you actually are in south Wales.
He not only has a Hunter machine, he knows how to use it and how to adjust the settings to suit the individual driver's use of the car.
Mine is set up by him with a compromise camber set up to give me better handling on track, but not ruin the road handling. Works well.
He not only has a Hunter machine, he knows how to use it and how to adjust the settings to suit the individual driver's use of the car.
Mine is set up by him with a compromise camber set up to give me better handling on track, but not ruin the road handling. Works well.
QBee said:
I second the vote for Mat Smith, he's a great TVR specialist, but he's in West Norfolk, which is about 180 miles from Newport, Gwent - you compute the rest to where you actually are in south Wales.
He not only has a Hunter machine, he knows how to use it and how to adjust the settings to suit the individual driver's use of the car.
Mine is set up by him with a compromise camber set up to give me better handling on track, but not ruin the road handling. Works well.
Make that three votes!He not only has a Hunter machine, he knows how to use it and how to adjust the settings to suit the individual driver's use of the car.
Mine is set up by him with a compromise camber set up to give me better handling on track, but not ruin the road handling. Works well.
Paulprior said:
I’m certainly no expert on setup , but if you have a spec to work to then what is the difference between a specialist and your local place if they both have a Hunter for instance ?
The last time I took it to a place called A&A tyres in Cardiff who are well respected but when I got home I noticed on the results sheet that it had Cerbera on the settings.Not sure if it had a Chim on the database or they just made a mistake, the settings may be similar anyway I’ve not looked.
All the best Chimaera I’ve driven have all been corner weighted! You can have a battery anywhere if your corner weighting but you have still removed the battery from its preferred location low down centrally in the car to a place over the back wheels and creating an even bigger fire hazard in the process.
Nice work if you can get it
It depends just how likely you are to dance on the edge of grip on say a TVR trackday as to wether corner weighting should be applied or not.
It’s never a bad idea put it that way.
For most owners they can record spring heights so a once in a blue moon event having the car weighted. What’s the big deal?
ETA I’ve never seen a serious race car with a sportscar configuration similar to ours with the battery say high up in the boot. Have a guess as to where it sits?
Reduce the size of your battery but moving it, It’s never going to be my choice. Not in the boot anyway
Nice work if you can get it
It depends just how likely you are to dance on the edge of grip on say a TVR trackday as to wether corner weighting should be applied or not.
It’s never a bad idea put it that way.
For most owners they can record spring heights so a once in a blue moon event having the car weighted. What’s the big deal?
ETA I’ve never seen a serious race car with a sportscar configuration similar to ours with the battery say high up in the boot. Have a guess as to where it sits?
Reduce the size of your battery but moving it, It’s never going to be my choice. Not in the boot anyway
Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 8th June 07:17
Belle427 said:
So I’ve bit the bullet and ordered the blistein sport suspension kit from Ben Lang to replace my gaz setup.
I just wondered who are the go to people for a full geo set up or will a respected Hunter 4 wheel alignment centre be able to cope with it?
I would be willing to travel 2-3 hours to get the work done properly.
By the way, you'll not be disappointed with that suspension, I went from rose jointed Gaz Gold Pros to Ben Lang's Mk4 spec big bush Bilsteins in Mk2 Tuscan 'S' spec and the car was completely transformed. Actually Ben did me a special sprung and valved set after giving him the additional weight over my rear axle (gas bottles) so if you ask he will be happy to create a bespoke setup.I just wondered who are the go to people for a full geo set up or will a respected Hunter 4 wheel alignment centre be able to cope with it?
I would be willing to travel 2-3 hours to get the work done properly.
My mate has a five litre Chimaera on Gaz Gold Pros, I picked him up from Str8Six the other day and ran him home in my 4.0HC, we ran back covering some epic roads in the Chiltern hills and he couldn't stop raving about the way my gas powered TVR went, handled and its ride quality. The Gaz suspension served me well for many years but it's really a track focused setup, rose joints are not for the road and the Bilsteins are just way better damped as well as having those big rubber bushes,.
I can 100% guarantee you you've made an excellent choice Belle427, on the road your TVR will be massively faster with the more compliant and superior damped Bilsteins, my mate's 5.0 litre has massive grunt but there's no way he'll hang with me on the B roads where these cars should shine. He'll be banging and crashing about as his TVR skips unpredictably and changes position on the road without his instruction through the steering, just as mine did when it was on the Gaz Gold Pros.
In contrast I will be soaking up the bumps, devouring those same broken surface corners in comfort and at prodigious pace, since switching to Ben's Mk4 big bush Billies I've replaced gripping the steering wheel tightly with sweaty palms for a a car that now gives confidence and I can pilot very rapidly without the buttock clenching stress of old, this more relaxed progress translates to a massive increase in my A to B pace on the road.
The car is so much more predictable as it now actually goes where I point it instead of hopping and skipping along as it shakes out all my fillings, the enjoyment this puts back into driving my Chimaera is quite simply game changing, and the pace its adds is truly significant. Suspension is meant to suspend, your tyres are your only contact with the road..... so keeping them in contact with it at all times is a really good idea
Enjoy
And now a different view regarding battery placement.
The passenger footwell is nice and low down, agreed.
But it also contains the ECU (standard car), the fuse board and a whole load of electrical gubbins dangling around the same area.
If the cover over the battery gets left off or dislodged, one short from anything on to the battery and your car looks like this in about 5 minutes
The fuel tank is a sealed unit, carefully placed to be out of the way of a heavy impact. So even if you have a rear shunt, it is most likely safe.
The inertia cut off switch, in such an accident, should isolate the electrics. I have seen photos of Griffs and Chimaeras after heavy rear impacts - the bodywork takes the impact, leaving the fuel tank intact. The battery would still have to be shorted to cause a fire.
Using the lightweight battery, my few kilos of battery is happily located above the fuel tank, leaving my passengers with proper leg room and my fuse board etc easy to access. I think this is insignificant compared with the other weights that people, including me, carry in the boot, and as you say, it can be dealt with by corner weighting. After all, we carry 40-50 kilos of fuel without giving it a thought.
I use the car for road use and track days.
If I was racing, then the car would be stripped out, caged, would have a fuel cell in the boot area or the passenger seat area, and the battery and the fire extinguisher system would be as low as possible in the centre of the car, to aid balance and lower the centre of gravity.
So mine sits here
The passenger footwell is nice and low down, agreed.
But it also contains the ECU (standard car), the fuse board and a whole load of electrical gubbins dangling around the same area.
If the cover over the battery gets left off or dislodged, one short from anything on to the battery and your car looks like this in about 5 minutes
The fuel tank is a sealed unit, carefully placed to be out of the way of a heavy impact. So even if you have a rear shunt, it is most likely safe.
The inertia cut off switch, in such an accident, should isolate the electrics. I have seen photos of Griffs and Chimaeras after heavy rear impacts - the bodywork takes the impact, leaving the fuel tank intact. The battery would still have to be shorted to cause a fire.
Using the lightweight battery, my few kilos of battery is happily located above the fuel tank, leaving my passengers with proper leg room and my fuse board etc easy to access. I think this is insignificant compared with the other weights that people, including me, carry in the boot, and as you say, it can be dealt with by corner weighting. After all, we carry 40-50 kilos of fuel without giving it a thought.
I use the car for road use and track days.
If I was racing, then the car would be stripped out, caged, would have a fuel cell in the boot area or the passenger seat area, and the battery and the fire extinguisher system would be as low as possible in the centre of the car, to aid balance and lower the centre of gravity.
So mine sits here
ChimpOnGas said:
By the way, you'll not be disappointed with that suspension, I went from rose jointed Gaz Gold Pros to Ben Lang's Mk4 spec big bush Bilsteins in Mk2 Tuscan 'S' spec and the car was completely transformed. Actually Ben did me a special sprung and valved set after giving him the additional weight over my rear axle (gas bottles) so if you ask he will be happy to create a bespoke setup.
My mate has a five litre Chimaera on Gaz Gold Pros, I picked him up from Str8Six the other day and ran him home in my 4.0HC, we ran back covering some epic roads in the Chiltern hills and he couldn't stop raving about the way my gas powered TVR went, handled and its ride quality. The Gaz suspension served me well for many years but it's really a track focused setup, rose joints are not for the road and the Bilsteins are just way better damped as well as having those big rubber bushes,.
I can 100% guarantee you you've made an excellent choice Belle427, on the road your TVR will be massively faster with the more compliant and superior damped Bilsteins, my mate's 5.0 litre has massive grunt but there's no way he'll hang with me on the B roads where these cars should shine. He'll be banging and crashing about as his TVR skips unpredictably and changes position on the road without his instruction through the steering, just as mine did when it was on the Gaz Gold Pros.
In contrast I will be soaking up the bumps, devouring those same broken surface corners in comfort and at prodigious pace, since switching to Ben's Mk4 big bush Billies I've replaced gripping the steering wheel tightly with sweaty palms for a a car that now gives confidence and I can pilot very rapidly without the buttock clenching stress of old, this more relaxed progress translates to a massive increase in my A to B pace on the road.
The car is so much more predictable as it now actually goes where I point it instead of hopping and skipping along as it shakes out all my fillings, the enjoyment this puts back into driving my Chimaera is quite simply game changing, and the pace its adds is truly significant. Suspension is meant to suspend, your tyres are your only contact with the road..... so keeping them in contact with it at all times is a really good idea
Enjoy
I went for the Tuscan S spec. My mate has a five litre Chimaera on Gaz Gold Pros, I picked him up from Str8Six the other day and ran him home in my 4.0HC, we ran back covering some epic roads in the Chiltern hills and he couldn't stop raving about the way my gas powered TVR went, handled and its ride quality. The Gaz suspension served me well for many years but it's really a track focused setup, rose joints are not for the road and the Bilsteins are just way better damped as well as having those big rubber bushes,.
I can 100% guarantee you you've made an excellent choice Belle427, on the road your TVR will be massively faster with the more compliant and superior damped Bilsteins, my mate's 5.0 litre has massive grunt but there's no way he'll hang with me on the B roads where these cars should shine. He'll be banging and crashing about as his TVR skips unpredictably and changes position on the road without his instruction through the steering, just as mine did when it was on the Gaz Gold Pros.
In contrast I will be soaking up the bumps, devouring those same broken surface corners in comfort and at prodigious pace, since switching to Ben's Mk4 big bush Billies I've replaced gripping the steering wheel tightly with sweaty palms for a a car that now gives confidence and I can pilot very rapidly without the buttock clenching stress of old, this more relaxed progress translates to a massive increase in my A to B pace on the road.
The car is so much more predictable as it now actually goes where I point it instead of hopping and skipping along as it shakes out all my fillings, the enjoyment this puts back into driving my Chimaera is quite simply game changing, and the pace its adds is truly significant. Suspension is meant to suspend, your tyres are your only contact with the road..... so keeping them in contact with it at all times is a really good idea
Enjoy
I seem to remember you using 16 inch front wheels as do I.
Be interested to know where your springs are set as I believe there are a couple of positions.
I'm sure Ben will set them before sending but nice to know to save time.
QBee said:
And now a different view regarding battery placement.
The passenger footwell is nice and low down, agreed.
But it also contains the ECU (standard car), the fuse board and a whole load of electrical gubbins dangling around the same area.
If the cover over the battery gets left off or dislodged, one short from anything on to the battery and your car looks like this in about 5 minutes
The fuel tank is a sealed unit, carefully placed to be out of the way of a heavy impact. So even if you have a rear shunt, it is most likely safe.
The inertia cut off switch, in such an accident, should isolate the electrics. I have seen photos of Griffs and Chimaeras after heavy rear impacts - the bodywork takes the impact, leaving the fuel tank intact. The battery would still have to be shorted to cause a fire.
Using the lightweight battery, my few kilos of battery is happily located above the fuel tank, leaving my passengers with proper leg room and my fuse board etc easy to access. I think this is insignificant compared with the other weights that people, including me, carry in the boot, and as you say, it can be dealt with by corner weighting. After all, we carry 40-50 kilos of fuel without giving it a thought.
I use the car for road use and track days.
If I was racing, then the car would be stripped out, caged, would have a fuel cell in the boot area or the passenger seat area, and the battery and the fire extinguisher system would be as low as possible in the centre of the car, to aid balance and lower the centre of gravity.
So mine sits here
Same here, I agree with everything you say. The passenger footwell is nice and low down, agreed.
But it also contains the ECU (standard car), the fuse board and a whole load of electrical gubbins dangling around the same area.
If the cover over the battery gets left off or dislodged, one short from anything on to the battery and your car looks like this in about 5 minutes
The fuel tank is a sealed unit, carefully placed to be out of the way of a heavy impact. So even if you have a rear shunt, it is most likely safe.
The inertia cut off switch, in such an accident, should isolate the electrics. I have seen photos of Griffs and Chimaeras after heavy rear impacts - the bodywork takes the impact, leaving the fuel tank intact. The battery would still have to be shorted to cause a fire.
Using the lightweight battery, my few kilos of battery is happily located above the fuel tank, leaving my passengers with proper leg room and my fuse board etc easy to access. I think this is insignificant compared with the other weights that people, including me, carry in the boot, and as you say, it can be dealt with by corner weighting. After all, we carry 40-50 kilos of fuel without giving it a thought.
I use the car for road use and track days.
If I was racing, then the car would be stripped out, caged, would have a fuel cell in the boot area or the passenger seat area, and the battery and the fire extinguisher system would be as low as possible in the centre of the car, to aid balance and lower the centre of gravity.
So mine sits here
The battery move debate will rage on forever, it may become the new smooth bore elbow.
Paulprior said:
I’m certainly no expert on setup , but if you have a spec to work to then what is the difference between a specialist and your local place if they both have a Hunter for instance ?
Like any machine, it's only as good as it's operator! Main problem is the camber adjustment. More modern cars use camber bolts at the inner ends of the wishbones and the adjustments are made with the wheel in place with the Hunter clamp on. The operator can just watch the screen and twiddle with the bolt.
The Chimaera system is awkward by comparison particularly the rear, where the wishbone slots become deformed. In that case, each time the bolt is tightened it tries to return to the old position and bearing in mind that only very slight adjustments are required, the operator may struggle to get anywhere. They may also dislike the wheel on and off and re-setup palaver.
A specialist will be prepared for all these foibles and will have a routine to deal with them.
Obviously can't be the case for all, but that was my experience and I think that you would need a firm recommendation of someplace with knowledge of these cars before committing.
I couldn't find anything near to me and that's why I decided on DIY. It's not rocket science and at least you know what you've got and that the job has been done properly.
I headed off to a trackday with the false confidence that the car was properly set up on a Hunter machine. It handled atrociously. Turned out that the Hunter guy hadn't sufficiently tightened the rear camber bolts, which had slipped to their resting position, but much worse, had forgotten to tighten the lock nuts on the rear toe adjuster with the result that the wishbones could toe out about 1/4" under braking. This made handling quite scary into corners as you can imagine.
I eventually modified the wishbones to give the slot some integrity.
Belle427 said:
I went for the Tuscan S spec.
I seem to remember you using 16 inch front wheels as do I.
Be interested to know where your springs are set as I believe there are a couple of positions.
I'm sure Ben will set them before sending but nice to know to save time.
I have the Tuscan spec Billies and they really are fantastic. However when i put them on last year the ride height looked all rather strange, too low at the front and too high at the back. I used it like this for a while but it just didn't seem right, I contacted Ben who gave me the recommeded height settings which is. Front springs should be set 5th groove up from the bottom (3rd from top) Rear springs should be on lowest groove, closeset to the bottom of the damper.I seem to remember you using 16 inch front wheels as do I.
Be interested to know where your springs are set as I believe there are a couple of positions.
I'm sure Ben will set them before sending but nice to know to save time.
Each groove equates to approx 12-15mm in ride height. It is worth cheking before you install them as mine were sent out incorrectly from the factory.
kevd said:
Belle427 said:
I went for the Tuscan S spec.
I seem to remember you using 16 inch front wheels as do I.
Be interested to know where your springs are set as I believe there are a couple of positions.
I'm sure Ben will set them before sending but nice to know to save time.
I have the Tuscan spec Billies and they really are fantastic. However when i put them on last year the ride height looked all rather strange, too low at the front and too high at the back. I used it like this for a while but it just didn't seem right, I contacted Ben who gave me the recommeded height settings which is. Front springs should be set 5th groove up from the bottom (3rd from top) Rear springs should be on lowest groove, closeset to the bottom of the damper.I seem to remember you using 16 inch front wheels as do I.
Be interested to know where your springs are set as I believe there are a couple of positions.
I'm sure Ben will set them before sending but nice to know to save time.
Each groove equates to approx 12-15mm in ride height. It is worth cheking before you install them as mine were sent out incorrectly from the factory.
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