Fuel Vapourisation on Taimar

[njhucker]

Had problems yesterday and today with fuel vapourisation on my Taimar.
Yesterday, while waiting at a level crossing, and today in the middle of town at traffic lights. The engine died and would not restart for about 20 mins.

I had replaced the fuel pump sum time ago with an earlier glass bowl type, and could clearly see thee fuel bubbling away in the pump, for a long time after the engine had died.

I am thinking of fitting an electric pump.
What is the most suitable type? Is it better to have one next to the tank, or in the engine compartment? If in the engine compartment, where is the best palse to locate it.

Nigel

[ATE399J]

I put a Facet electric pump on my Tuscan V6 (at the "tank end" as most pumps seem to want to "blow" not "suck" if you see what I mean). It solved several problems in one stroke, the main one being that as I don't use the car that regularly the carb would dry out and I'd have to prime the system every time I wanted to start the car. I used the standard road pump (bought as the kit, Ref: 40105K) and have found it perfectly adequate.

At the time the best price I found was from www.trackstore.co.uk/shop%20frame.html (01325 261336).

[B16 RFF]

njhucker said:

Had problems yesterday and today with fuel vapourisation on my Taimar. Yesterday, while waiting at a level crossing, and today in the middle of town at traffic lights. The engine died and would not restart for about 20 mins. I had replaced the fuel pump sum time ago with an earlier glass bowl type, and could clearly see thee fuel bubbling away in the pump, for a long time after the engine had died. I am thinking of fitting an electric pump. What is the most suitable type? Is it better to have one next to the tank, or in the engine compartment? If in the engine compartment, where is the best palse to locate it. Nigel

That's a really old pump if it's the glass bowl type. Are you sure it's working as efficiently as it could be? There used to be overhaul kits available for these, but that was years ago, so may not be true nowadays. Is there a thick insulating gasket between the pump and the timing cover. If not, that could be the problem.
I think a car of that age should have a return line from the carb inlet to the fuel tank. This keeps the fuel circulating and helps to alleviate the problem. Keep the fuel lines well away from the exhaust manifold and consider insulating with cord where they are closest. Were you low on fuel? If there is not much in the tank, the supply of cool fuel is obviously much reduced and the recirculating effect is negated.
I never had this problem in my old M, so in theory you should be able to overcome it without resorting to an electric pump. As has been stated though, an electric pump is good for priming the carb.

Best of luck,

Paul.

[njhucker]

Although the pump is the glass bowl type, I purchased it several months ago as "brand new old stock". I have never had the problem before, but it was the hottest day for a very long time. There is a fuel return, and the thick gasket between the pump & the block.

Although it seems it will only be a problem in extreme heat. ( I have done 5000 miles in it so far, without this problem) I think I will go the electric pump near the tank route.

[Terminator]

I'm fairly sure that the glass bowl type of pump is for the earlier Essex V6 (Zephyr) and not the Capri/Granada version. The difference is in the cam lobe which actuates the pump lever.

I have a Facet Posi-Flo electric pump fitted near the tank and it does exactly what it says on the box.

[supaspark]

Terminator said:

I'm fairly sure that the glass bowl type of pump is for the earlier Essex V6 (Zephyr) and not the Capri/Granada version. The difference is in the cam lobe which actuates the pump lever. I have a Facet Posi-Flo electric pump fitted near the tank and it does exactly what it says on the box.

Colin,
Which psi rating and model No.
Cheers,
Glyn.

[B16 RFF]

Terminator said:

I'm fairly sure that the glass bowl type of pump is for the earlier Essex V6 (Zephyr) and not the Capri/Granada version. The difference is in the cam lobe which actuates the pump lever. I have a Facet Posi-Flo electric pump fitted near the tank and it does exactly what it says on the box.

Yes, I believe that's right (glass bowl). The V6s fitted to the M series had all-metal pumps. Didn't know the cam was different though. I thought the stroke was varied by altering the thickness of the insulating washer.

[Terminator]

The one I use is the 60106 which is rated at 4 - 7 psi and 24 gallons per hour. This supplies enough for a two barrel Holley. The 60104 is lower rated but should be ok for about 150 bhp.

[supaspark]

Terminator said:

The one I use is the 60106 which is rated at 4 - 7 psi and 24 gallons per hour. This supplies enough for a two barrel Holley. The 60104 is lower rated but should be ok for about 150 bhp.

Colin,
I'm having trouble locating one! Can you remember your suppliers datails....
Cheers,
Glyn.

[Terminator]

I found mine on the US eBay site. They do crop up every now and then.

If you want to pay double the US price, then www.fuelsystem.co.uk has them.

[njhucker]

I have now purchased a Pump, filter, blanking plate & regulator from

www.burtonpower.co.uk
Came today, so will now have to wait until we have another heat-wave to check it has solved the problem.

[supaspark]

Ordered my stuff today, will fit next week ready for new carb (JW40dgas).

[mawds]

I've had exactly this problem three times in 3 days - Friday evening on the York Ring Road, in heavy traffic, on a roundabout , then at 70mph on the A15, and again just as I got home. On each occasion, after leaving it for 40mins or so, fired up straight away. Luckily, the last time was as I pulled into home, so was able to inspect things immediately - apart from 2 blocked idle jets , carbs fine, but both float chambers empty. Fuel filter contained fuel, but with ignition on and pump (facet red top) clattering away in the back, no fuel pumping out. I assume this must mean the pump is at fault - the weather didn't get any cooler during those 40mins, and the fuel in the tank probably warmed up even more - but as the fuel pump cooled down - fuelling returned.

Is my thinking logical here, before I buy a new fuel pump?

(PS whilst this was happening, this thread came to mind immediately)

[ATE399J]

Alex,

This sounds really obvious but have you tried disconnecting the feed to the carb to see if the pump is working? Just thinking you may have the fuel line collapsed internally at some point in the run from tank to carb. If the pump is getting hot I would guess that it is having to work really hard to feed the fuel. Disconnect both ends and try blowing down it?

[B16 RFF]

ATE399J said:

Alex, This sounds really obvious but have you tried disconnecting the feed to the carb to see if the pump is working? Just thinking you may have the fuel line collapsed internally at some point in the run from tank to carb. If the pump is getting hot I would guess that it is having to work really hard to feed the fuel. Disconnect both ends and try blowing down it?

Or maybe the pump pickup in the tank blocked with debris. These tanks are well known for rust problems.

Paul.

[thegamekeeper]

Alex, if you are getting dirt in idle jets its coming from somewhere.Likeliest cause is the tank. Facets have an internal filter which will soon block if filtering s**t from the tank. This will cause it to have to pump harder to keep up with demand and therefore get hot. Hot pump means hot fuel which means vapour lock. Just a thought! sTeVeR

[thegamekeeper]

ps if the pump is "pre unleaded" they have a different pump diaphragm which does not like unleaded fuel and goes gooey, thus causing it to need to work harder bla bla bla sTeVeR

[adrian@]

Having read the topic and he other on the 3000M carb...no one mentions the need for a fuel cut-out system that needs to be added when adding these electric pumps and that the brass connections are prone to blowing off the side of the carb when you add more that 4 PSI (I believe the JW modified unit has brass pins that stop this from happening)....Adrian

>> Edited by adrian@ on Monday 18th July 18:51