How do you value an outlier?
Discussion
As per the the title really, how on earth do you value a car that sits outside the normal car buying/selling spectrum? Take this fellow for instance:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Cobra-Dax-Chevy-400c...
I have no idea whether it's worth £35k or not but how is it valued? The obvious answer is what the market says and what one is happy to pay but at what point does one say no that's too much or that's an absolute steal? For those cars that are 'out there' where do you start?
More for a point of discussion than a definitive answer.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Cobra-Dax-Chevy-400c...
I have no idea whether it's worth £35k or not but how is it valued? The obvious answer is what the market says and what one is happy to pay but at what point does one say no that's too much or that's an absolute steal? For those cars that are 'out there' where do you start?
More for a point of discussion than a definitive answer.
Absolutely love this thread already.
There would be two answers for me.
The first is if I had followed this type of car and wanted to own one. I would pay handsomely considering how good I thought the build might be.
The second would be I would bid him in the b
ks if I intended to buy it and then sell it on. I don't even mean 10% off, it would have to be so low I was confident some other mug would buy it off me at a break even value. Call it 50% off......
There would be two answers for me.
The first is if I had followed this type of car and wanted to own one. I would pay handsomely considering how good I thought the build might be.
The second would be I would bid him in the b
ks if I intended to buy it and then sell it on. I don't even mean 10% off, it would have to be so low I was confident some other mug would buy it off me at a break even value. Call it 50% off......Seem to be a few Dax Cobras for sale
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/6/dax+cobra/
The eBay listing seems to fall somewhere in the middle price wise, but I imagine prices are spec and condition dependent.
No idea if any of them are worth the asking price or if they regularly sell at this sort of money.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/6/dax+cobra/
The eBay listing seems to fall somewhere in the middle price wise, but I imagine prices are spec and condition dependent.
No idea if any of them are worth the asking price or if they regularly sell at this sort of money.
Osinjak said:
As per the the title really, how on earth do you value a car that sits outside the normal car buying/selling spectrum? Take this fellow for instance:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Cobra-Dax-Chevy-400c...
I have no idea whether it's worth £35k or not but how is it valued? The obvious answer is what the market says and what one is happy to pay but at what point does one say no that's too much or that's an absolute steal? For those cars that are 'out there' where do you start?
More for a point of discussion than a definitive answer.
You don't price the market, the market for Cobra replicas has been around for a while and is established, if you haven't got clue then do some research and find out....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Cobra-Dax-Chevy-400c...
I have no idea whether it's worth £35k or not but how is it valued? The obvious answer is what the market says and what one is happy to pay but at what point does one say no that's too much or that's an absolute steal? For those cars that are 'out there' where do you start?
More for a point of discussion than a definitive answer.
Punters very rarely "steal" a car in any market.
A1VDY said:
Who would really want that though? It's a replica, a fake, no different to the Bolex watches on sale locally at the Spanish Market..
Unlike the Bolex, the thing it is a replica of isn’t naff, and has desirable attributes beyond the name of the brand which are shared by the replica.otolith said:
Unlike the Bolex, the thing it is a replica of isn’t naff, and has desirable attributes beyond the name of the brand which are shared by the replica.
And possibly superior to the original (I have no idea in this case). Modern construction and know how perhaps allow replica cars to be better made and developed than the originals in period albeit without the authenticity. Putting the Cobra aside, where there is a market, there is an interesting question here - how does a dealer value a car for which there is no liquid market?
For example, imagine a one-off Rolls Royce. Or the Bentley that was built for the Queen. Or a bespoke build of some kind.
There is no "market", you can't look at similar cars that sold before, because either there aren't any, or the last sale is from many years ago when the world was a different place.
You can't just assume it is worth a lot. Maybe nobody wants it. Some of the bespoke Rolls Royces owned by the Saudi royal family were basically unwanted. I believe that some of them ended up being sold for parts.
The antiques market has this problem all the time. Mostly that stuff gets sold at auction. But auction prices are not a perfect guide to value either. The serious buyers might not be in the room. You may try and sell it on a day when it just so happens that there is nobody that wants it. Equally, you may get 2 lunatics bidding against each other and sending the price sky high.
It's an interesting problem. I guess that auction, casting the net as wide as possible for serious bidders, and a suitably high "buy it now" price, is the only way.
For example, imagine a one-off Rolls Royce. Or the Bentley that was built for the Queen. Or a bespoke build of some kind.
There is no "market", you can't look at similar cars that sold before, because either there aren't any, or the last sale is from many years ago when the world was a different place.
You can't just assume it is worth a lot. Maybe nobody wants it. Some of the bespoke Rolls Royces owned by the Saudi royal family were basically unwanted. I believe that some of them ended up being sold for parts.
The antiques market has this problem all the time. Mostly that stuff gets sold at auction. But auction prices are not a perfect guide to value either. The serious buyers might not be in the room. You may try and sell it on a day when it just so happens that there is nobody that wants it. Equally, you may get 2 lunatics bidding against each other and sending the price sky high.
It's an interesting problem. I guess that auction, casting the net as wide as possible for serious bidders, and a suitably high "buy it now" price, is the only way.
I suppose it depends on how quickly a sale is needed and how niche the vehicle is
About 4 years I feel I underpaid for a Westfield V8, it had been built 12 years previously but only done 9,000 miles, 5.1 JE Rover V8, Jenvey throttle bodies, LSD, dry sumped, Aeroquip couplings, Stack dash etc etc everywhere, the original build was nearly £30k. Car was immaculate but also a very niche vehicle - I bought it for £12k.
During the 18 months I owned it I invested a bit of time and money on it and sold it for a bit more than I paid for it - sold it at full asking price within 24 hours, I think it could have sold for comfortably more but I had not lost money on it and I was conscious there would only be limited number of people out there that it would appeal to
About 4 years I feel I underpaid for a Westfield V8, it had been built 12 years previously but only done 9,000 miles, 5.1 JE Rover V8, Jenvey throttle bodies, LSD, dry sumped, Aeroquip couplings, Stack dash etc etc everywhere, the original build was nearly £30k. Car was immaculate but also a very niche vehicle - I bought it for £12k.
During the 18 months I owned it I invested a bit of time and money on it and sold it for a bit more than I paid for it - sold it at full asking price within 24 hours, I think it could have sold for comfortably more but I had not lost money on it and I was conscious there would only be limited number of people out there that it would appeal to
otolith said:
A1VDY said:
Who would really want that though? It's a replica, a fake, no different to the Bolex watches on sale locally at the Spanish Market..
Unlike the Bolex, the thing it is a replica of isn’t naff, and has desirable attributes beyond the name of the brand which are shared by the replica.
A high end car dealer I chatted to a good few years ago when buying a car, told me the car would double in value within a few years as it was coming into the sweet spot of age and collectability at around 25 years old, and he was spot on. This was after I had agreed a price, so there was no arm twisting involved in the statement.
His selling model was to market niche type cars that were popular when new but then fell by the wayside over time, his experience was that the market would turn full circle as they became fewer and nostalgia kicked back in.
Buyers were scattered over time and location for such cars, but when the right one came along they would pay a good price, so he just picked a price he believed the market would pay and held firm, often for more than 12 months or so, he would even increase some prices over that time if he felt the market was moving upwards, despite his own example not selling.
Based on his premises and the cars he had then it most certainly worked for him!
Its all about knowing when to hold and when to fold.
As a seller hold firm if you are confident in the car and can afford to, and think you know your market. There is no correct price for specialist cars.
The Hartleys seem to follow the same thinking, there is no glasses guide for the stuff they specialise in which is all very high end but quite varied.
His selling model was to market niche type cars that were popular when new but then fell by the wayside over time, his experience was that the market would turn full circle as they became fewer and nostalgia kicked back in.
Buyers were scattered over time and location for such cars, but when the right one came along they would pay a good price, so he just picked a price he believed the market would pay and held firm, often for more than 12 months or so, he would even increase some prices over that time if he felt the market was moving upwards, despite his own example not selling.
Based on his premises and the cars he had then it most certainly worked for him!
Its all about knowing when to hold and when to fold.
As a seller hold firm if you are confident in the car and can afford to, and think you know your market. There is no correct price for specialist cars.
The Hartleys seem to follow the same thinking, there is no glasses guide for the stuff they specialise in which is all very high end but quite varied.
A1VDY said:
Who would really want that though? It's a replica, a fake, no different to the Bolex watches on sale locally at the Spanish Market..
I would have a good cobra replica in a heartbeat. The lines blur with some replica's licenced and registered by Shelby.
IIRC Shelby also built cobras using the Kirkham kit (very high end all aluminium body).
Lower end kits are a bit ropey, but at the upper end they are fantastic cars hence the high price tag.
Osinjak said:
I have no idea whether it's worth £35k or not but how is it valued? The obvious answer is what the market says and what one is happy to pay but at what point does one say no that's too much or that's an absolute steal?
I doubt very much you'd buy it because if you wanted it that badly you wouldn't even bother posting, you'd have rung the bloke and asked him why he thought it was worth the asking price. Bit like what you did with your RRS when it was advertised with black wheels. The call might go something like this:You: 'why do you think your car is worth £35k'.
Him: 'cos thats how much similar ones fetch'
It's something I've wondered about, and frequently comes up with classic cars where rarity may mean that none have been up for sale for years.
When it's a rare spec of a common car it's easier as it's the common car price plus a premium, but I remember 5-6 years ago someone listing a 60k mile Citroen C6 for £20k because it was the 3.0 rather than the 2.7... no idea if they ever sold it but that price seemed optimistic when comparable 2.7s were going for less than half that.
I'm currently looking at a classic car where there are five for sale in the UK and no two are alike in terms of condition, the prices are all over the place.
When it's a rare spec of a common car it's easier as it's the common car price plus a premium, but I remember 5-6 years ago someone listing a 60k mile Citroen C6 for £20k because it was the 3.0 rather than the 2.7... no idea if they ever sold it but that price seemed optimistic when comparable 2.7s were going for less than half that.
I'm currently looking at a classic car where there are five for sale in the UK and no two are alike in terms of condition, the prices are all over the place.
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