Size really does matter

[Esceptico]

I’ve had small, medium and large capacity bikes (90, 250, 400, 600, 750, 900, 1000, 1100 and 1300).

I used to think that you didn’t need more than 600 as supersports are definitely fast enough. However, although for track days I would still prefer 600/750 (maybe if I did enough track days to get into the fast group I would rethink that) for the road big is better.

Just so much more relaxing to not have to worry about dropping gears and getting into the powerband to overtake. Safer too as you can hang back from what you are wanting to overtake but then shoot past them really quickly when there is an opportunity.

[Jazoli]

Size does matter, I like 1000cc plus bikes as you can just twist and go and not have to fk about dropping 16 gears for an overtake, see gap, open throttle, job done.

On track I'm happy enough with a 600 as the lack of torque isn't an issue as you are always in the right gear anyway.

[bogie]

I would agree, but not necessarily engine size but power output... you can have still get a 1800cc cruiser with 85bhp and near 400Kg to move around

[crofty1984]

I'm the opposite. I like smaller bikes for exactly the reason that they make you work harder.

[Stuart Fordyce]

For road riding, faster bikes definitely have better brakes and it just makes me feel more comfortable. Obviously you don't ride up to the limit of the brakes, but two up on my Fazer,
with four piston calipers on each fork leg, it stops the wife and I with less fuss than my old BMW F650GS (1 two piston sliding caliper) - both bikes weight is similar.

1,000cc is slightly wasted on the street in the SE as away from a track there's nowhere you can use the performance.

[V8RX7]

How old are you ?

Using the gearbox is part of the skill / fun !

I recently upgraded to a KTM 525 from a KTM 690 as I don't think I ever used 5th and 6th, now I use all the power, in all the gears - great fun.

[GadgeS3C]

crofty1984 said:

I'm the opposite. I like smaller bikes for exactly the reason that they make you work harder.

[Esceptico]

V8RX7 said:

How old are you ?

Using the gearbox is part of the skill / fun !

I recently upgraded to a KTM 525 from a KTM 690 as I don't think I ever used 5th and 6th, now I use all the power, in all the gears - great fun.

Old enough to have got lazy perhaps. Although I also prefer not to draw too much attention to myself so better to slip past cars on a wave of torque rather than scream past at 15,000 revs.

[Steve Bass]

Hallelujah!!!!

Finally some common bloody sense

Yes, small bikes can be fun but usually in small doses when you're feeling frisky.
Otherwise, there's no getting around it. Slow is slow.
Having the torque to execute a safe and controlled overtake is not something to get blase about . Having the power to cruise at reasonable speeds comfortably is safer as it's relaxing and stress free. No waiting to line up the next overtake and risk getting into grief.
Riding a small bike every day is fine if you have to. But if you don't.... why???

[Zarco]

What are we calling small? <500cc?

As I’ve certainly never struggled to overtake on a 600.

Completely agree a 125 is not much fun on the open road as there isn't enough grunt to keep up with traffic.

[Steve Bass]

Zarco said:

What are we calling small? <500cc?

As I’ve certainly never struggled to overtake on a 600.

Completely agree a 125 is not much fun on the open road as there isn't enough grunt to keep up with traffic.

Under 300cc I'm guessing but i'd think even a 400 is tardy enough to count. and given Japanese 400's are classed with 250 2T's I can see the point.

My RS250 is a giggle, but I wouldn't want to ride it all day, everyday.

Edited by Steve Bass on Sunday 21st June 07:59

[V8RX7]

Steve Bass said:

Zarco said:

What are we calling small? <500cc?

As I’ve certainly never struggled to overtake on a 600.

Under 300cc I'm guessing
My RS250 is a giggle, but I wouldn't want to ride it all day, everyday.

Well as the OP said this:

Esceptico said:

I used to think that you didn’t need more than 600 as supersports are definitely fast enough. However, for the road big is better.

Just so much more relaxing to not have to worry about dropping gears and getting into the powerband to overtake

I thought he was saying even 600 is too small on the road

I'll agree bigger bikes are easier / more relaxing - if you want to cruise continents - but that's not how I ride also it depends on the bike and where the power / torque is made.

My 1100 Guzzi makes a whopping 70bhp - less than my single cylinder 690 KTM did.

[Steve Bass]

V8RX7 said:

Steve Bass said:

Zarco said:

What are we calling small? <500cc?

As I’ve certainly never struggled to overtake on a 600.

Under 300cc I'm guessing
My RS250 is a giggle, but I wouldn't want to ride it all day, everyday.

Well as the OP said this:

Esceptico said:

I used to think that you didn’t need more than 600 as supersports are definitely fast enough. However, for the road big is better.

Just so much more relaxing to not have to worry about dropping gears and getting into the powerband to overtake

I thought he was saying even 600 is too small on the road

I'll agree bigger bikes are easier / more relaxing - if you want to cruise continents - but that's not how I ride also it depends on the bike and where the power / torque is made.

My 1100 Guzzi makes a whopping 70bhp - less than my single cylinder 690 KTM did.

It's torque spread that really matters for comfortable road riding.

And It's not about cruising continents. Having a fat load of torque available on tap is a far safer and relaxing proposition than having to rev the nuts off a bike everywhere and be forced into potentially unsafe maneuvers gets wearisome.

[V8RX7]

Steve Bass said:

It's torque spread that really matters for comfortable road riding.

And It's not about cruising continents. Having a fat load of torque available on tap is a far safer and relaxing proposition than having to rev the nuts off a bike everywhere and be forced into potentially unsafe maneuvers gets wearisome.

I thought that's what I said... hence my original question to the OP about his age as most bikers aren't in it to be relaxed.

[Steve Bass]

V8RX7 said:

Steve Bass said:

It's torque spread that really matters for comfortable road riding.

And It's not about cruising continents. Having a fat load of torque available on tap is a far safer and relaxing proposition than having to rev the nuts off a bike everywhere and be forced into potentially unsafe maneuvers gets wearisome.

I thought that's what I said... hence my original question to the OP about his age as most bikers aren't in it to be relaxed.

Yes, but the key word was "spread"

Area under the curve is the key to a good road bike, not peak numbers. Too many people get all hot 'n bothered about outright BHP. it's meaningless as it's a function of torque at a specific RPM.

That's why a GS is fast on the road as it doesn't have to rev hard and has a torquey engine config whereas a Superbike needs to rev to make power. They're still fast but not as "instant" as a lower revving, twin cylinder. The GS will run out of breath at higher rpm & speeds whereas the Superbike is just getting into its stride.

Not sure about the " most bikers aren't in it to be relaxed" comment?? I would think most are in it to enjoy themselves, whatever that means. And going really fast has to be relaxed or you'll be in a whole load of shyte quicker than a quick thing.

Race bred engines are a different matter altogether.......

[podman]

No different to large engined cars is it, they waft along without trying but despite the harder work, we all like a thrash in a hot hatch now and again , dont we?

Its "easier" to get around on my S1000R but I enjoy riding my OHs CBR600 and 350LC just as much.

[Scobblelotcher]

I completely agree, I find usable torque to be really helpful in city riding. Riding my S1000R was a revelation after riding my GSXR-600 through the city.

Torque and riding position for me are very important and then there other niceties like quick shifters, heated grips and cruise control.

[George Smiley]

I remember my first big bike, a 900cc blade (rrp)

It was lovely and caused the curse of big cc, I could never go back yet missed the involvement from 600s. The trouble was it was more relaxing and easier to abuse the gear box but it just wasn’t as fun

Like in cars I loved my s2000 but the idea of driving to Spain was a chore

[Jazoli]

I don't get the smaller bikes are more involving thing, they often are fun t ride, and are usable every day but I don't want to be screaming past traffic at 12000rpm, its not involving, its tiresome, and it makes you look like a plank, especially if your screaming 600 has a racefit or similar on it, there are too many knobheads out there going for their Sunday rides making a racket and causing a nuisance and never getting out of the first 3 gears, its all show and no go.

Having loads of available torque throughout the rev range means you can go for a ride and make progress without looking like a total wker and hopefully fly under the radar a bit, its more relaxing, more fun as you aren't constantly having to be in a low gear for maximum thrust, a friend of mine commented that when he was out with me he had to give his bike (a 600 IL4) a 'proper thrashing' all the time just to keep up, there were no heroics from me we were just on a steady ride out on A roads but in quite busy traffic so when a gap presented itself I was gone and he was having to drop gears and give it full beans to stay in touch, we'd be cruising quite happily at 70mph (ish) we'd encounter traffic and all I had to do was open the throttle in 6th, he'd have to sit at 9000rpm in 3rd so he had enough power on tap, fun for a few miles but irritating after a 200 mile ride.

[V8RX7]

Jazoli said:

I don't get the smaller bikes are more involving thing, they often are fun t ride, and are usable every day but I don't want to be screaming past traffic at 12000rpm, its not involving, its tiresome, and it makes you look like a plank, especially if your screaming 600 has a racefit or similar on it, there are too many knobheads out there going for their Sunday rides making a racket and causing a nuisance and never getting out of the first 3 gears, its all show and no go.

Having loads of available torque throughout the rev range means you can go for a ride and make progress without looking like a total wker and hopefully fly under the radar a bit, its more relaxing, more fun as you aren't constantly having to be in a low gear for maximum thrust, a friend of mine commented that when he was out with me he had to give his bike (a 600 IL4) a 'proper thrashing' all the time just to keep up, there were no heroics from me we were just on a steady ride out on A roads but in quite busy traffic so when a gap presented itself I was gone and he was having to drop gears and give it full beans to stay in touch, we'd be cruising quite happily at 70mph (ish) we'd encounter traffic and all I had to do was open the throttle in 6th, he'd have to sit at 9000rpm in 3rd so he had enough power on tap, fun for a few miles but irritating after a 200 mile ride.

Just goes to show that we are all different I find riding a fast bike, slowly - boring.

Riding the same speed on a slower bike, I find fun.

I only ride for fun, it may well be different if I was commuting for hours every day.