Well That's Torn It!
Discussion
I bought a pair of these off ebay perfect fot
Ford Mondeo Mk3 Estate 2000-2007 Rear Anti Roll Bar Drop Links Pair
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rear-Anti-Roll-Drop-Lin...
Ford Mondeo Mk3 Estate 2000-2007 Rear Anti Roll Bar Drop Links Pair
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rear-Anti-Roll-Drop-Lin...
Basically it’s slightly more flexi on the rear end without it, both rear wheels feel more alive and not so connected to eachother. Which is exactly what it is, well it’s the suspension that’s connected to eachother in effect.
It has advantages on bumpy uneven roads where one rear wheel is moving through bumps, the other wheel does not get so rebounded through the effect of those bumps.
It’s harder to read the feel of the rear end but it’s defo more forgiving on country roads. Try turning into a fast corner so throwing weight around it might just swap ends though as the extra body roll that comes with no rear ARB throws much more weight onto the loaded rear tyre. I think the rear ARB is an answer to turn in oversteer. Not something that noticeable on a road as you will never likely Chuck the car at a corner quite the same way as you would on a racetrack.
I took mine off years ago. As a cruiser it’s better for sure. Be aware at speed I’d say.
It has advantages on bumpy uneven roads where one rear wheel is moving through bumps, the other wheel does not get so rebounded through the effect of those bumps.
It’s harder to read the feel of the rear end but it’s defo more forgiving on country roads. Try turning into a fast corner so throwing weight around it might just swap ends though as the extra body roll that comes with no rear ARB throws much more weight onto the loaded rear tyre. I think the rear ARB is an answer to turn in oversteer. Not something that noticeable on a road as you will never likely Chuck the car at a corner quite the same way as you would on a racetrack.
I took mine off years ago. As a cruiser it’s better for sure. Be aware at speed I’d say.
Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 21st June 10:11
Belle427 said:
Try driving without it and see if you can tell the difference, I put some of those Mondeo links on and one had sheared off.
Was driving like it for god knows how long, the roll bar now lives in the garage attic.
Agree, I dont think any of them are "Robust". I have broken 2 Steve Heath versions and those are rose jointed and expensive in comparison the Mondeo ones. The rose joints corrode up and squeak and there is a really slim metal joint that is the weak point. FWIW the Mondeo ones have been on mine for about a year now covered about 3000 miles.Was driving like it for god knows how long, the roll bar now lives in the garage attic.
Agree with classichimi too, with/without both have plus/minus aspects.
Right chaps, thanks for your comments, this incident was really odd as I've drieven over that electric gate lock stop a hundred times before my chassis restoration, and without issue 
Well, I can see what happened now.
Once I'd got that car in the air and climbed underneath I found every single exhaust under tray bolt was loose, as were the exhaust bobbin bolts. The exhaust tray was hanging down and one bolt had almost fallen out, all the bolts were so loose they could easily be turned by hand and didn't even have enough resistance to activate the mechanism in my 3/8 ratchet without me tightening them a bit with my fingers.
The oil you see is a result of someone who should have known better, when I was taught to replace any fitting (in this case an OP switch) that comes with an 'O' ring, it was drummed into me you must go find the the old 'O' ring if it doesn't come out with the old fitting. This is because new OP switch 'O' ring crammed on top of old one left in the front cover is never going to seal, this is why the lowloader that delivered my car from Sheffield had a puddle of oil on it's deck when my car was delivered, it had only been sat on that truck over night BTW.
Its also why my engine lost 5 litres of oil in an early 20 minutes drive and very nearly ended in an expensive engine rebuild, I found oil literally pishing out of the newly installed OP switch at 50psi, when I removed said OP switch it came out with two 'O' rings, anyone here will know the RV8 OP switch should only have one
I literally thought I was seeing double when this came out!
Everywhere I checked I found loose bolts, and not just would themselves 'a little bit' loose, but clearly 'forgotten to tighten them' loose, I could go on but won't. Anyway it seems quite clear to me the ARB must have been hanging down due to loose bolts, this is why I'd never had an issue driving over that electric gate lock stop before, the result being as we can see is a destroyed ARB bush bracket
A lost polly bush that when AOL in the incident.......and a properly mangled ARB!
It's great to see nice new bolts have been used, but being frank I'd far prefer old bolts that were done up properly as correcting all this stuff is starting to get very expensive
Well, I can see what happened now.
Once I'd got that car in the air and climbed underneath I found every single exhaust under tray bolt was loose, as were the exhaust bobbin bolts. The exhaust tray was hanging down and one bolt had almost fallen out, all the bolts were so loose they could easily be turned by hand and didn't even have enough resistance to activate the mechanism in my 3/8 ratchet without me tightening them a bit with my fingers.
The oil you see is a result of someone who should have known better, when I was taught to replace any fitting (in this case an OP switch) that comes with an 'O' ring, it was drummed into me you must go find the the old 'O' ring if it doesn't come out with the old fitting. This is because new OP switch 'O' ring crammed on top of old one left in the front cover is never going to seal, this is why the lowloader that delivered my car from Sheffield had a puddle of oil on it's deck when my car was delivered, it had only been sat on that truck over night BTW.
Its also why my engine lost 5 litres of oil in an early 20 minutes drive and very nearly ended in an expensive engine rebuild, I found oil literally pishing out of the newly installed OP switch at 50psi, when I removed said OP switch it came out with two 'O' rings, anyone here will know the RV8 OP switch should only have one
I literally thought I was seeing double when this came out!
Everywhere I checked I found loose bolts, and not just would themselves 'a little bit' loose, but clearly 'forgotten to tighten them' loose, I could go on but won't. Anyway it seems quite clear to me the ARB must have been hanging down due to loose bolts, this is why I'd never had an issue driving over that electric gate lock stop before, the result being as we can see is a destroyed ARB bush bracket
A lost polly bush that when AOL in the incident.......and a properly mangled ARB!
It's great to see nice new bolts have been used, but being frank I'd far prefer old bolts that were done up properly as correcting all this stuff is starting to get very expensive
Why was the oil switch taken out? Was it already leaking? I can’t see why they would have removed the switch.
Dave if my car had arrived with a puddle of oil under it I’d have wanted to know why there and then.
This looks like someone rushing to get the job done for an eager customer. Never ends well.
I’m sure 99% of the job is ok so I hope you have raised this with the engineer as it’s quite possibly a genuine mistake through rushing!
The idea off the bolts being loose on the ARB suggests even very loose you had what 7-10 mm ( ok I’ve looked again, long bolts,,,I’m surprised it didn’t creak being so loose ) clearance to what it snagged on even tightened up. The way it’s ripped the plate away suggests it was attached. Very odd. Have you filled your tanks recently.
Proper pain in the arse for sure. With a bit of heat the ARB should bend back easily enough in a vice or similar.
The exhaust being one of the last things you put on the car this genuinely looks like someone’s rushing.
That’s the lesson here.
And you for not looking for a bloody horrendous oil leak which you identified on arrival of your car.
You have paid not a lot by any estimation to have the car completely disassembled,,,,,, It’s a massive job!
Fix it and move on I’d say.
Goodluck
This is an easier repair than if you’d ripped the tarmac up I suppose.
Look at the positives, yours is together and on the road,,, Mines still in a 1000 bits ;(
Dave if my car had arrived with a puddle of oil under it I’d have wanted to know why there and then.
This looks like someone rushing to get the job done for an eager customer. Never ends well.
I’m sure 99% of the job is ok so I hope you have raised this with the engineer as it’s quite possibly a genuine mistake through rushing!
The idea off the bolts being loose on the ARB suggests even very loose you had what 7-10 mm ( ok I’ve looked again, long bolts,,,I’m surprised it didn’t creak being so loose ) clearance to what it snagged on even tightened up. The way it’s ripped the plate away suggests it was attached. Very odd. Have you filled your tanks recently.
Proper pain in the arse for sure. With a bit of heat the ARB should bend back easily enough in a vice or similar.
The exhaust being one of the last things you put on the car this genuinely looks like someone’s rushing.
That’s the lesson here.
And you for not looking for a bloody horrendous oil leak which you identified on arrival of your car.
You have paid not a lot by any estimation to have the car completely disassembled,,,,,, It’s a massive job!
Fix it and move on I’d say.
Goodluck
This is an easier repair than if you’d ripped the tarmac up I suppose.
Look at the positives, yours is together and on the road,,, Mines still in a 1000 bits ;(
Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 22 June 10:06
Belle427 said:
I’m guessing the person responsible for the chassis resto is at fault for this?
I wouldn’t be happy and would be wondering what else has not been done correctly.
No comment I wouldn’t be happy and would be wondering what else has not been done correctly.
Well, other than to say after weeks and weeks of yours truly knocking down issue after issue like this, the car is thankfully now finally working correctly. Having spent a number of years in restoration myself, all be it many years ago, I can confirm nothing in that line of work has actually changed! The importance of labeling up, taking reference photographs, and building in time at the end of the process for a proper shake down cannot be overstressed.
With such work the Devil most definitely lives in the detail, fasteners do shake loose and inevitably things will need tightening and tweaking in the first few months following such invasive work, however shaking loose in the first few weeks and forgotten to tighten them up in the first place are very different conditions and are easy to differentiate between. Look, we're all human, I understand mistakes happen and things can get forgotten, but when the list of issues exceeds 25 recorded assembly faults clearly something else is at play.
When you work alone self motivation can be your your most challenging advisory, you must not allow yourself to become distracted and at the very core of any well executed restoration is of course good project management, this plan will include agreed deadlines that must be met. Forgetting to tighten bolts, failing to fish the old 'O' ring out of the front cover before fitting a new switch that obviously comes with a new 'O' ring, not properly tightening a high pressure gas union causing a very dangerous LPG leak, and completely loosing the alternator exciter wire in the restoration process are just a few in a seemingly endless list of examples I could give where a little more care and attention to detail would have gone a long way.
I have to say it's only by the grace of God my engine was not completely destroyed by the OP switch 'O' ring gaff, had the last litre of engine oil left my sump while I was traveling at speed the outcome would have certainly been very different indeed, but by a miraculous piece of luck I was just a 2 miles from home when the hydraulic liters started to tell me my old pickup was stating to pull airted oil. Oh well its a lesson learned, and along with the rad fan controller failure caused by an over stressed sensor wire that saw coolant temps soar to 108c, lets just call it yet another bullet dodged!
Classic Chim said:
Why was the oil switch taken out? Was it already leaking? I can’t see why they would have removed the switch.
Dave if my car had arrived with a puddle of oil under it I’d have wanted to know why there and then.
Just a slight weep from the original 24 year old switch Alun, I simply concluded it would be easier to fit the new one with the body off, it's one of those super simple jobs that if done incorrectly can have disastrous consequences, there are many jobs like this when spannering a car, in this case if you fail to fish the old 'O' ring out before fitting the new switch with it's new 'O' ring it will bite you (or in this case your customer) firmly the wallet!.Dave if my car had arrived with a puddle of oil under it I’d have wanted to know why there and then.
When the bottom fell out of the classic car market in the mid 1990's I needed a new job fast, I ended up as a hydraulic fitter fixing fork lift trucks which I'm not especially proud of as I went from Jag XK 120/40/50s ect to hydraulic plant over night which wasn't easy I can tell you, I already knew not to double 'O' rings but my new role as a hydraulic fitter reinforced the immense importance of fishing that old 'O' ring out before fitting the new fitting as pressures are much greater in that world.
One 'O' ring on top of another will never seal, and for obvious reasons an OP switch is always holding back full gallery pressure, that's why they're typically fitted at the output port on the source of that pressure ie the oil pump. No amount of over tightening will ever seal the double 'O' ring gaff, what over tightening will do though on an RV8 is crack the front cover, fortunately that's another expensive bullet dodged right there.
The number of lucky escapes I've enjoyed since I've had the car back is getting silly now, obviously the ARB incident covered within this post ended that run of bullet dodging good luck, but again by some amazing twist of fate I've actually found (with Mk4 Bilsteins) the car handles just as well without the rear ARB and actually has an even more compliant ride. There are fewer noised too, although with the exhaust under tray only hanging off the car by a few bolt threads and all the exhaust bobbin bolts loose this could be the reason she's now lost thiose nasty resonating vibrations the car was delivered with.
Saying that I'd prefer to learn the handling and ride quality lessons without having components violently ripped clean off my car because they weren't secured properly. I also really could have done without spending the last two months working every weekend and every other evening to correct the poor assembly work of others I'd paid in full to execute correctly in the first place, only the recent good weather and a four day week enforced by my employer due to the pandemic gave me the time to invest in it.
I guess my final point would be had i not have had the skills to correct all these issues myself, and lets be honest most who put their trust in a professional don't, the process of correcting all these issues would have needed to be passed to someone else for rectification which quite clearly given all the hours I have in it now would have been very expensive indeed. Unlike others involved in this project I photograph everything, and I mean everything, so I'm tempted to compile a dossier of evidence to support a counter invoice to cover at least some of my considerable loss of time.
I think we better end it right there as I'm already reaching for that file of evidence as we speak, and I need to stop myself and move move on as this whole saga is not doing my blood pressure any good at all
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