Advice on smallish turbo cars
Discussion
Hi everyone,
First post here, I've spent some time reading this forum and I think you guys give great advice, so looks like I could use some.
For a bit of background, I had a 2000 172 Ph1 Clio for 3 years and now I have had my 2004 1.6 110hp EP2 Civic for 3 years as well. Weird step maybe, I really enjoyed the Clio but fancied a change and that shape of Civic had always caught my eye (the 3 door though, not enough money for an EP3).
Thing is, as much as I love my Civic, I keep looking at adverts and thinking about changing. Specifically a turbo smallish car. I've never owned a turbo car but must confess I am quite interested in one. The idea of a small turbo "hot hatch" has always attracted me.
My preferences are:
-Reliability: And this is a huge one- I must confess I am completely spoiled by the Civic. Hasn't asked for much other than bulbs aside from maintenance. I know adding a turbo is always going to add complexity, and I am willing to go with it. BUT, I do quite a few miles to and from work so reliability is important for me.
-Motorway usability: A lot of my miles are done on motorway, so cruise control, relatively tall 5th/6th gear, armrest, not-a-rock-solid-suspension would help. Not a dealbreaker but the more the better.
-Fuel consumption: Truth is I have -thankfully- never been worried enough about MPG to consider a diesel. However, I have become used to getting over 33/35MPG on the motorway (70-80mph), so, picking it up from the last section, the less worse it gets, the better.
Budget: I'm not from the UK, I am from Spain. And from reading this forum I don't think our used car market has the great deals yours have. So I don't know how accurate this will be but I think what I am after is advice and experiences rather than links to adverts. I am looking to spend up to 6/7k (€)
Looking for a turbo smallish car with that budget usually ends up going the same route: VAG's 1.8T, leggy TSI, PSA-BMW 1.6THP, Renault 2.0T, etc.. Not going to lie, the 1.8T draws quite a bit of my attention as a "solid" and proved engine, I've always liked cars like the MKIV GTI, A3 8L, MK1 Leon, and specially the late 2006-2008 Ibiza, either in FR(150) or Cupra(180) guise. But I don't know if the first ones will be showing their age a bit, and if the latter will be a bit uncomfortable.
Looking forward to hearing any advice.
Thanks for your time.
First post here, I've spent some time reading this forum and I think you guys give great advice, so looks like I could use some.
For a bit of background, I had a 2000 172 Ph1 Clio for 3 years and now I have had my 2004 1.6 110hp EP2 Civic for 3 years as well. Weird step maybe, I really enjoyed the Clio but fancied a change and that shape of Civic had always caught my eye (the 3 door though, not enough money for an EP3).
Thing is, as much as I love my Civic, I keep looking at adverts and thinking about changing. Specifically a turbo smallish car. I've never owned a turbo car but must confess I am quite interested in one. The idea of a small turbo "hot hatch" has always attracted me.
My preferences are:
-Reliability: And this is a huge one- I must confess I am completely spoiled by the Civic. Hasn't asked for much other than bulbs aside from maintenance. I know adding a turbo is always going to add complexity, and I am willing to go with it. BUT, I do quite a few miles to and from work so reliability is important for me.
-Motorway usability: A lot of my miles are done on motorway, so cruise control, relatively tall 5th/6th gear, armrest, not-a-rock-solid-suspension would help. Not a dealbreaker but the more the better.
-Fuel consumption: Truth is I have -thankfully- never been worried enough about MPG to consider a diesel. However, I have become used to getting over 33/35MPG on the motorway (70-80mph), so, picking it up from the last section, the less worse it gets, the better.
Budget: I'm not from the UK, I am from Spain. And from reading this forum I don't think our used car market has the great deals yours have. So I don't know how accurate this will be but I think what I am after is advice and experiences rather than links to adverts. I am looking to spend up to 6/7k (€)
Looking for a turbo smallish car with that budget usually ends up going the same route: VAG's 1.8T, leggy TSI, PSA-BMW 1.6THP, Renault 2.0T, etc.. Not going to lie, the 1.8T draws quite a bit of my attention as a "solid" and proved engine, I've always liked cars like the MKIV GTI, A3 8L, MK1 Leon, and specially the late 2006-2008 Ibiza, either in FR(150) or Cupra(180) guise. But I don't know if the first ones will be showing their age a bit, and if the latter will be a bit uncomfortable.
Looking forward to hearing any advice.
Thanks for your time.
Hi
Im am also currently looking for a small hot hatch here in Denmark. I can tell that I'm patiently waiting to see how the coming hyundai i20n will be. I have saved up money for a hot hatch for years by now. Now ready just waiting for the right model. To me the i20n seems promising. I hope reliability will be good helped by 5 years of unlimited warranty.
I know this is not really helpful advice to your questions. I just wanted to bring a few words to hopefully help spark discussion on small hot hatches hoping more will join in.
Im am also currently looking for a small hot hatch here in Denmark. I can tell that I'm patiently waiting to see how the coming hyundai i20n will be. I have saved up money for a hot hatch for years by now. Now ready just waiting for the right model. To me the i20n seems promising. I hope reliability will be good helped by 5 years of unlimited warranty.
I know this is not really helpful advice to your questions. I just wanted to bring a few words to hopefully help spark discussion on small hot hatches hoping more will join in.
Hi,
Yes, I'm also intrigued by whatever comes out as i20N. As far as I know the reviews on the i30N are quite good and personally think it really does look good on the road. 1.6T 204hp I think is on the table?
Have to admit new "mini hot hatches" and hot hatches look really impressive, and practical as well having grown from previous generations. However, I have never bought a new car, and I don't know if I ever will. Right now I'm not really into monthly payments and whatever money they are asking for "interesting" cars nowadays sounds crazy to me (21k€ Swift Sport, 25k€ FiestaST, 31k€ i30N, 35k€ Golf GTI, 40k€ Civic TypeR....)
It's my take on that. From time to time I see myself spending a bigger chunk of money on a newer, maybe pre-registred? (Km0 or km zero as we call them here) car as they look really interesting, but I always end up in the 3-8k€ used car bracket, which sounds like a sweet spot for me.
Yes, I'm also intrigued by whatever comes out as i20N. As far as I know the reviews on the i30N are quite good and personally think it really does look good on the road. 1.6T 204hp I think is on the table?
Have to admit new "mini hot hatches" and hot hatches look really impressive, and practical as well having grown from previous generations. However, I have never bought a new car, and I don't know if I ever will. Right now I'm not really into monthly payments and whatever money they are asking for "interesting" cars nowadays sounds crazy to me (21k€ Swift Sport, 25k€ FiestaST, 31k€ i30N, 35k€ Golf GTI, 40k€ Civic TypeR....)
It's my take on that. From time to time I see myself spending a bigger chunk of money on a newer, maybe pre-registred? (Km0 or km zero as we call them here) car as they look really interesting, but I always end up in the 3-8k€ used car bracket, which sounds like a sweet spot for me.
I think you'll probably be more satisfied with something a little older as some of the recent hot hatches seem to have lost their way a bit.
Yesterday I had a test drive in a 208 GTi. It was a car I had high hopes for and fulfills much of what you're looking for. Very efficient, refined, well equipped. Thing is it just felt very ordinary to me with no sense of drama or occasion. I didn't get to push it but the power delivery was a bit laggy then a lump of torque. Steering was very light. Felt like a shopping car which isn't what I expected from a hot hatch.
Fiesta ST mk7 is a superb drive but probably out of your budget?
Yesterday I had a test drive in a 208 GTi. It was a car I had high hopes for and fulfills much of what you're looking for. Very efficient, refined, well equipped. Thing is it just felt very ordinary to me with no sense of drama or occasion. I didn't get to push it but the power delivery was a bit laggy then a lump of torque. Steering was very light. Felt like a shopping car which isn't what I expected from a hot hatch.
Fiesta ST mk7 is a superb drive but probably out of your budget?
ChrisH72 said:
I think you'll probably be more satisfied with something a little older as some of the recent hot hatches seem to have lost their way a bit.
Yesterday I had a test drive in a 208 GTi. It was a car I had high hopes for and fulfills much of what you're looking for. Very efficient, refined, well equipped. Thing is it just felt very ordinary to me with no sense of drama or occasion. I didn't get to push it but the power delivery was a bit laggy then a lump of torque. Steering was very light. Felt like a shopping car which isn't what I expected from a hot hatch.
Fiesta ST mk7 is a superb drive but probably out of your budget?
Thanks for the advice, Yesterday I had a test drive in a 208 GTi. It was a car I had high hopes for and fulfills much of what you're looking for. Very efficient, refined, well equipped. Thing is it just felt very ordinary to me with no sense of drama or occasion. I didn't get to push it but the power delivery was a bit laggy then a lump of torque. Steering was very light. Felt like a shopping car which isn't what I expected from a hot hatch.
Fiesta ST mk7 is a superb drive but probably out of your budget?
Yes, Fiesta ST unfortunately way out of budget. To give you an idea, I just checked and mk7 Fiestas ST here are ranged from 13k to 16k€ for ~2015 30-40k mile cars. Great cars I'm sure and quite attractive.
Funny enough, I remember test driving a 207GTI with the 175hp previous version of the 1.6THP (whole different experience to the 208GTI I know) and was disappointed by the enormous lag and the steering feel.
A budget version of what you described the 208GTi like, would be a starting point for me. Small, relatively powerful, efficient, "refined" and well equipped. Does that exist on that price range?
Over here the earliest 208 Gti start at little more than £5k. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad car, in fact I'm sure it's pretty competent and capable. Just not that exciting. Easy to live with though I am sure.
There is a budget version...
Citroen DS3 thp sport. Same engine with a little less power. Again,cover here they're very cheap but I'd have concerns over reliability of the early ones.
How about the R56 mini cooper s? Same engine again.
A small turbo hatch which could make sense at the right price.... Corsa vxr. Their reputation isn't great but I think it's the ones that have been messed with that suffer problems. I've never tried one but I imagine they are a bit more 'hot' in the raw sense of a performance hatch.
There is a budget version...
Citroen DS3 thp sport. Same engine with a little less power. Again,cover here they're very cheap but I'd have concerns over reliability of the early ones.
How about the R56 mini cooper s? Same engine again.
A small turbo hatch which could make sense at the right price.... Corsa vxr. Their reputation isn't great but I think it's the ones that have been messed with that suffer problems. I've never tried one but I imagine they are a bit more 'hot' in the raw sense of a performance hatch.
ChrisH72 said:
Over here the earliest 208 Gti start at little more than £5k. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad car, in fact I'm sure it's pretty competent and capable. Just not that exciting. Easy to live with though I am sure.
There is a budget version...
Citroen DS3 thp sport. Same engine with a little less power. Again,cover here they're very cheap but I'd have concerns over reliability of the early ones.
How about the R56 mini cooper s? Same engine again.
A small turbo hatch which could make sense at the right price.... Corsa vxr. Their reputation isn't great but I think it's the ones that have been messed with that suffer problems. I've never tried one but I imagine they are a bit more 'hot' in the raw sense of a performance hatch.
Appreciate the advice,There is a budget version...
Citroen DS3 thp sport. Same engine with a little less power. Again,cover here they're very cheap but I'd have concerns over reliability of the early ones.
How about the R56 mini cooper s? Same engine again.
A small turbo hatch which could make sense at the right price.... Corsa vxr. Their reputation isn't great but I think it's the ones that have been messed with that suffer problems. I've never tried one but I imagine they are a bit more 'hot' in the raw sense of a performance hatch.
However, I have the impression that the DS3/Mini isn't the most reliable unit, by a margin. A shame as I think the DS3 looks good and many in budget.
Corsa VXR really interesting. I know a few that went through a couple engines and turbos, but not sure if the problem is modifying them or lies beneath. I think VXRs are just in budget, and little brother SRI 1.6T 150hp as well. I remember a thread on Reader's Rides from a guy who swapped a mk7 Fiesta ST for a VXR because he didn't really get along with the Fiesta, and praised the VXR (not sure if it was a Nurburg Edition). Could be interesting to hear more opinions on the VXR.
How about Fiat/Alfa 1.4TB? I find 155hp MiTos, 155hp Abarth Puntos, and even the hotter 170hp QV MiTo on budget here. I have very little knowledge about these but definitely catch my eye.. Reliable?
Jasp1 said:
The approach to buy used is the sensibly one i think. At least here it is super expensive to buy new. I'm still considering. I have also heard good things about corsa vxr.
Exactly, I consider myself a car enthusiast to a certain point, and I guess I'd like to be in a position now or in a few years to comfortly afford one of these new hot hatches. But right now I just can't justify spending that money or getting into finance.Henz said:
Mini R56s with the N18 engine (2010 onwards for S, 2012 for JCW) fixed most of the issues of the earlier engine. Not sure if the DS adopted the changes though.
Mini is out of budget unfortunately, 2010-2012 cars range here from 10k to 13k € aprox.DS3 afaik, there were produced with 155/208/210hp, being the THP-Sport/Performance/DS3 Racing respectively. 155hp engines were produced since 2009 and didn't change neither power or name, so not sure if any change was made to older cars.
Anyway, with the newer versions (N18 Minis e.g.), how reliable are we talking?
Thanks for the input
ZX10R NIN said:
Also look for an Alfa Mito Cloverleaf the 1.4T unit is a peach not as sweet a steer as the Fiesta but definitely something you can have fun with.
Is the 1.4T a solid engine? Of course I value how fun a great engine with a good chassis can be but right now I am specifically after something that can take the miles I put on it and rely my daily driving to. I'd like to ask you, since I see how many people you helped before and guessing you may have driven or experienced many engines throughout this time, about VAG's latest versions of the ancient 1.8T 20V (2005-2008). 9n3 Polo GTI? Ibiza Cupra/FR? Does it resemble what I'm after by any chance?
Thanks for your time
The 1.4T has proven itself to be very reliable & if you're doing mileage you may appreciate going for the bigger Giulietta with the same drivetrain but longer gearing for a more relaxed drive.
I don't rate the Polo/Ibiza the engine is decent but it's not the hottest & could do with a bit more grunt also the chassis isn't great either & a 5 speed box doesn't make for a relaxing drive on longer runs, I'd take a Mito out of the three, the extra grunt along with the 6 speed box would edge it for me.
Also look for the 1.6T Astra/Opel GTC 180/200bhp depending on your budget, they're swift but the long gearing blunts the performance a bit but they go well & respond to tuning,.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Giulietta Veloce
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
I know you're in Spain but the above is just to give you an idea.
One that's normally overlooked is the Giulietta Cloverleaf:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Looking at the warm hatches from the segment above does give you some good cars with good chassis (but not as sweet as a Fiesta ST but better/on par with a Ibiza/Polo etc) grunty engine & some nicety's to make longer journeys more relaxing.
I don't rate the Polo/Ibiza the engine is decent but it's not the hottest & could do with a bit more grunt also the chassis isn't great either & a 5 speed box doesn't make for a relaxing drive on longer runs, I'd take a Mito out of the three, the extra grunt along with the 6 speed box would edge it for me.
Also look for the 1.6T Astra/Opel GTC 180/200bhp depending on your budget, they're swift but the long gearing blunts the performance a bit but they go well & respond to tuning,.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Giulietta Veloce
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
I know you're in Spain but the above is just to give you an idea.
One that's normally overlooked is the Giulietta Cloverleaf:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Looking at the warm hatches from the segment above does give you some good cars with good chassis (but not as sweet as a Fiesta ST but better/on par with a Ibiza/Polo etc) grunty engine & some nicety's to make longer journeys more relaxing.
ChrisH72 said:
.....a 208 GTi........the power delivery was a bit laggy then a lump of torque....
I tried a 308 GTi (same engine, even more boost) and the lag was shocking. Even in 1st or 2nd gear at roundabouts it gave nothing.....nothing....nothing <oh s
t I'm going to get hit by that car coming from the right>.....Zoom <oh st I'm going to hit the car in front>.Saloc said:
Out of budget as well haha.. any info on the engine? Guessing it's similar to the MiTo and Punto? Reliability? Experiences? Thanks a lot
yup same engine and its a tough little cookie! Advise that you let the revs settle to idle speed and let the turbo cool a little before you switch the engine off only for 60secs or so.If the puntos in budget go for it, the mito can be hit and miss for things like power steering pumps.
ZX10R NIN said:
The 1.4T has proven itself to be very reliable & if you're doing mileage you may appreciate going for the bigger Giulietta with the same drivetrain but longer gearing for a more relaxed drive.
I don't rate the Polo/Ibiza the engine is decent but it's not the hottest & could do with a bit more grunt also the chassis isn't great either & a 5 speed box doesn't make for a relaxing drive on longer runs, I'd take a Mito out of the three, the extra grunt along with the 6 speed box would edge it for me.
Also look for the 1.6T Astra/Opel GTC 180/200bhp depending on your budget, they're swift but the long gearing blunts the performance a bit but they go well & respond to tuning,.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Giulietta Veloce
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
I know you're in Spain but the above is just to give you an idea.
One that's normally overlooked is the Giulietta Cloverleaf:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Looking at the warm hatches from the segment above does give you some good cars with good chassis (but not as sweet as a Fiesta ST but better/on par with a Ibiza/Polo etc) grunty engine & some nicety's to make longer journeys more relaxing.
Thanks for the great advice,I don't rate the Polo/Ibiza the engine is decent but it's not the hottest & could do with a bit more grunt also the chassis isn't great either & a 5 speed box doesn't make for a relaxing drive on longer runs, I'd take a Mito out of the three, the extra grunt along with the 6 speed box would edge it for me.
Also look for the 1.6T Astra/Opel GTC 180/200bhp depending on your budget, they're swift but the long gearing blunts the performance a bit but they go well & respond to tuning,.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Giulietta Veloce
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
I know you're in Spain but the above is just to give you an idea.
One that's normally overlooked is the Giulietta Cloverleaf:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Looking at the warm hatches from the segment above does give you some good cars with good chassis (but not as sweet as a Fiesta ST but better/on par with a Ibiza/Polo etc) grunty engine & some nicety's to make longer journeys more relaxing.
If the 1.4T is good to go, then I may look for the MiTo, rather than Giulietta, since what I am looking for is the feeling of a more compact car with the turbo punch. I am sure both are great cars but Giulietta may be just about on the bigger side of what I want. Besides, as I said, I am surprised by the amount of MiTos for sale here with these turbo engines in my budget, unlike Giuliettas, that are slightly less and above.
I keep asking about Polo/Ibiza because there is quite a bit on offer, especially Ibizas. Really like the look of it in Cupra guise and had the impression of the venerable 1.8T being probably the most reliable block on the long run. But maybe not even the FR is as refined on motorways as the MiTo.
I find the idea of warm hatches from segment above interesting nonetheless, especially that Astra GTC. I've had Insignias and Astra tourers 2.0cdti from the same age as company cars not long ago and was impressed by the quality and surefootedness. Bear in mind those Astra GTC are probably on the wrong side of 1500kg and wear 19 or 20" rims though. I will look into them and see if fit my budget, even if, again, a smaller car would still be a better bet for me.
Appreciate the time
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