Inheritance question
Discussion
Scenario:
Mr A, aged 80, meets Ms B, also aged 80. They fall in love and get married, and enjoy 10 years together before Mr A pops his clogs.
When they married, they moved into the house which Ms B already owned. There was no pre-nup.
When Mr A died, given they are married, in the absence of any other documentation to the contrary, does half the house then belong to his estate, or does Ms B (now Mrs A) retain her full ownership?
Mr A had a will but this apparently only dealt with his personal effects and finances.
Mr A, aged 80, meets Ms B, also aged 80. They fall in love and get married, and enjoy 10 years together before Mr A pops his clogs.
When they married, they moved into the house which Ms B already owned. There was no pre-nup.
When Mr A died, given they are married, in the absence of any other documentation to the contrary, does half the house then belong to his estate, or does Ms B (now Mrs A) retain her full ownership?
Mr A had a will but this apparently only dealt with his personal effects and finances.
Genuinely not for me, it's one of MrsC's friend's parent. I was just curious.
The two families united by the marriage seem from a distance to be amicable enough but I was wondering whether its an issue or not. MsB/MrsA and her family (who are our friends/contacts) are the sort of people who will just jog along in life and see what happens, so they may not have considered this. It could be argued that it's none of my business - which it isn't, only that I would always look out for their best interests if there was something they ought to be considering.
The two families united by the marriage seem from a distance to be amicable enough but I was wondering whether its an issue or not. MsB/MrsA and her family (who are our friends/contacts) are the sort of people who will just jog along in life and see what happens, so they may not have considered this. It could be argued that it's none of my business - which it isn't, only that I would always look out for their best interests if there was something they ought to be considering.
I suspect the vultures have descended thinking they can get themselves a handful of B's pie as well. Sensibly they should f
k off because any fight they put up is likely to (unless it's silly expensive!) exhaust a good chunk of whatever funds they would have access to - plus unless B has nobody to pass any inheritance on to that will impact their inheritance too.
This situation is plenty evidence of how inheritance brings out the worst.
However, realistically unless they want a protracted fight, 10 years marriage suggests an even split is appropriate.
k off because any fight they put up is likely to (unless it's silly expensive!) exhaust a good chunk of whatever funds they would have access to - plus unless B has nobody to pass any inheritance on to that will impact their inheritance too.This situation is plenty evidence of how inheritance brings out the worst.
However, realistically unless they want a protracted fight, 10 years marriage suggests an even split is appropriate.
CAPP0 said:
Scenario:
Mr A, aged 80, meets Ms B, also aged 80. They fall in love and get married, and enjoy 10 years together before Mr A pops his clogs.
When they married, they moved into the house which Ms B already owned. There was no pre-nup.
When Mr A died, given they are married, in the absence of any other documentation to the contrary, does half the house then belong to his estate, or does Ms B (now Mrs A) retain her full ownership?
Mr A had a will but this apparently only dealt with his personal effects and finances.
I think you'll find that Mr A's heirs have no claim on the Ms B/Mrs A's house at all. We are not talking divorce here where conceivably one party to the marriage might have a claim against property already owned by the other party st the time of the marriage.But as others have said get it checked by a solicitor who has expertise in probate matters.Mr A, aged 80, meets Ms B, also aged 80. They fall in love and get married, and enjoy 10 years together before Mr A pops his clogs.
When they married, they moved into the house which Ms B already owned. There was no pre-nup.
When Mr A died, given they are married, in the absence of any other documentation to the contrary, does half the house then belong to his estate, or does Ms B (now Mrs A) retain her full ownership?
Mr A had a will but this apparently only dealt with his personal effects and finances.
I'm an IFA by trade but not a Solicitor so the below should be deemed 'generic guidance only' and as others have said they need to speak to a Solicitor for actual advice.
Another poster correctly noted that a Will is voided on marriage (or divorce) so if Mr A's WIll was made before he got married then it is likely the rules of intestacy will apply which are messy (right for wife both outright portion and use of another portion until death if there are kids - google it for full breakdown).
If his Will was made after he got married (or just before and noted in it his intention was to marry her and he wanted the Will to remain valid) then this would cover all his 'assets' not just personal excluding property. I.e. if it says 'all of my estate to my wife' then she indeed keeps the lot. I would question the source and validity of a Will that tried to exclude a specific asset as they don't normally name 'things' but refer to 'my estate' which includes everything.
In short, they need a copy of the Will (which shows not just what it says but when it was dated) and to see a Solicitor. If they are worried about costs they could try seeing a Solicitor through a CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) as many do free 1 hour initial slots at their local CAB which if it then looks like there is something worth pursuing then the individual can choose to engage them officially.
Hope that helps OP. A key lesson for all and something I nag all my clients about is to always have a Will in place that reflects your current wishes and as these change get new ones drawn up. Very few Solicitors will now 'amend' a WIll (with an addendum known as a 'Codicil') but just draw up new ones to reflect current legal working changes and it is the most recent valid one (correctly signed and witnessed) that counts post death.
Another poster correctly noted that a Will is voided on marriage (or divorce) so if Mr A's WIll was made before he got married then it is likely the rules of intestacy will apply which are messy (right for wife both outright portion and use of another portion until death if there are kids - google it for full breakdown).
If his Will was made after he got married (or just before and noted in it his intention was to marry her and he wanted the Will to remain valid) then this would cover all his 'assets' not just personal excluding property. I.e. if it says 'all of my estate to my wife' then she indeed keeps the lot. I would question the source and validity of a Will that tried to exclude a specific asset as they don't normally name 'things' but refer to 'my estate' which includes everything.
In short, they need a copy of the Will (which shows not just what it says but when it was dated) and to see a Solicitor. If they are worried about costs they could try seeing a Solicitor through a CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) as many do free 1 hour initial slots at their local CAB which if it then looks like there is something worth pursuing then the individual can choose to engage them officially.
Hope that helps OP. A key lesson for all and something I nag all my clients about is to always have a Will in place that reflects your current wishes and as these change get new ones drawn up. Very few Solicitors will now 'amend' a WIll (with an addendum known as a 'Codicil') but just draw up new ones to reflect current legal working changes and it is the most recent valid one (correctly signed and witnessed) that counts post death.
Dixy said:
And when the will was written as it becomes void on marriage.
This. With regards to the house it will depend... You need to find out how the house was owned. When Mr A moved in, if Ms B did nothing then she likely owned 100% of the house (solely) and the marriage would not necessarily change that (you mention no pre-nup). If they amended the ownership of the house to joint, then you need to find out on what basis. There are 2 types referred to as joint tenants (ignore the word - it doesn't mean renting) and tenants in common. Joint tenants own 100% each and the property automatically becomes the survivors. Tenants in common means the ownership is split (often 50% each but not necessarily) and the proportion owned by the deceased forms part of their estate, although the survivor will likely have the right to remain until death.
Basically, it depends on a lot of factors, so perhaps the best advice you can give Mrs C's friend is to seek legal advice once the facts are known.
Hope that helps.
Pegscratch said:
However, realistically unless they want a protracted fight, 10 years marriage suggests an even split is appropriate.
Or, from another POV, 10 year marriage is following 50 years of home-ownership for Mrs B, possibly with a Mr B in the past...many wouldn't share your view on the house being split evenly being most appropriate. It's Mrs B's home, to live in, and quite possibly remains that way even after the passing of Mr A.
But yes, get wife's friend's parents (Ken Dodd's Dad's dogs dead?! - sorry, can't remember who it was) to speak to a lawyer.
tigger1 said:
Or, from another POV, 10 year marriage is following 50 years of home-ownership for Mrs B, possibly with a Mr B in the past...many wouldn't share your view on the house being split evenly being most appropriate.
It's Mrs B's home, to live in, and quite possibly remains that way even after the passing of Mr A.
But yes, get wife's friend's parents (Ken Dodd's Dad's dogs dead?! - sorry, can't remember who it was) to speak to a lawyer.
If you go in to marriage absent a pre-nup, what's mine is hers and what's hers is hers might be a good laugh but basically it all becomes part of the same "pool".It's Mrs B's home, to live in, and quite possibly remains that way even after the passing of Mr A.
But yes, get wife's friend's parents (Ken Dodd's Dad's dogs dead?! - sorry, can't remember who it was) to speak to a lawyer.
Thanks all for the replies, very helpful. I would hope that the family can spot this issue themselves and act accordingly, trouble is, MrsB is 90-odd now and she's not that sharp of mind any more (not ill as such, just old and easily confused) and the children, all middle-aged adults, aren't really up on all this either. If you can imagine a family (all generations) of what almost probably amounts to "hey, whatever, man" hippies that would be them! Just don't want to see them dip out, but as I said before, it's not my business other than looking out for them as friends.
Reminds me also that MrsC and I need to get our own wills squared off!
Reminds me also that MrsC and I need to get our own wills squared off!
zzrman said:
You are talking nonsense. We are not dealing with a divorce here.
You can say things without being a , you know?Any wills written pre marriage are not likely to be valid, and absent anything it is possible that automatically you get nothing - but that's not guaranteed nothing and it would be unreasonable and probably open to being challenged in court as unreasonable to then inherit the lot and effectively exclude his kids.
Pegscratch said:
You can say things without being a , you know?
Any wills written pre marriage are not likely to be valid, and absent anything it is possible that automatically you get nothing - but that's not guaranteed nothing and it would be unreasonable and probably open to being challenged in court as unreasonable to then inherit the lot and effectively exclude his kids.
You are adding to your nonsense pile. House was owned by Ms B/Mrs A. Marriage to Mr A does not alter the fact that absent a subsequent transfer by MsB/Mrs A of part of the beneficial interest in the property to Mr A, the house remains in her sole beneficial ownership. It does not therefore ever become part of Mr A's assets and is not therefore part of his estate on death., you know?Any wills written pre marriage are not likely to be valid, and absent anything it is possible that automatically you get nothing - but that's not guaranteed nothing and it would be unreasonable and probably open to being challenged in court as unreasonable to then inherit the lot and effectively exclude his kids.
Pegscratch said:
You can say things without being a , you know?
Any wills written pre marriage are not likely to be valid, and absent anything it is possible that automatically you get nothing - but that's not guaranteed nothing and it would be unreasonable and probably open to being challenged in court as unreasonable to then inherit the lot and effectively exclude his kids.
You are talking nonsense. In the circumstances described, what claim could Mr A's estate possibly have on the house?, you know?Any wills written pre marriage are not likely to be valid, and absent anything it is possible that automatically you get nothing - but that's not guaranteed nothing and it would be unreasonable and probably open to being challenged in court as unreasonable to then inherit the lot and effectively exclude his kids.
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