Same rules for us and them!
Discussion
It's a sunny Sunday and motorcyclists are out in their hundreds. The police chopper is out keeping an eye on them.
The chopper spots a group of 5 bikes and observes them for a while. They are all riding safely and skillfully so the chopper decides to move on to someone else.
Just then the last two bikes overtake accross double white lines. The chopper has it taped, and lands at a point ahead of their direction of travel and gives them a pull.
The bikers turn out to be police officers from a neighbouring force!
Result - fixed penalty notices for the offending coppers!
The chopper spots a group of 5 bikes and observes them for a while. They are all riding safely and skillfully so the chopper decides to move on to someone else.
Just then the last two bikes overtake accross double white lines. The chopper has it taped, and lands at a point ahead of their direction of travel and gives them a pull.
The bikers turn out to be police officers from a neighbouring force!
Result - fixed penalty notices for the offending coppers!
Dibble said:
Would it have been such a "result" if the motorcyclists hadn't been Police officers?
I suspect if they hadn't, the thread would have been very much along the lines of "WASTE OF POLCIE RESOURCES USING HELICOPTER TO CATCH MOTORCYCLISTS"...
For speed enforcement yes, a clear waste.
For the prevention or detection of people driving like idiots and endangering themselves and others, no..use the chopper as much as you like.
A colleague of mine got a year's ban and 200+ hours of community service for overtaking on white lines & 80 in a 40, he was hit with a dangerous driving charge.
He served his ban, completed his Community service and is now in the process of re-taking his test. Although only 19 he took his punishment like an adult and did not once complain. I trust these "officers" will be dealt with in a similar manner, and not find some technicality or other to get away with it.
>> Edited by monkeyhanger on Monday 20th June 18:10
A few years ago we would have been very sympathetic. I mean FFS, did these bikers actually drive dangerously? Just crossing a line on a bike does not automatically cause any danger.
So we have a Police helicopter at God knows what expense pulling a couple of bikers over who did no harm.
Now, however schadenfreude sets in.
I wonder what happened to cause this.......
So we have a Police helicopter at God knows what expense pulling a couple of bikers over who did no harm.
Now, however schadenfreude sets in.
I wonder what happened to cause this.......
Solid white lines seem to be appearing like cash cameras, seems we're being dumbed down to the lowest level of numptie driver who needs to be told exactly what to do and when. Many sold white lines are irrelevant but others are pretty important, near blind summits for example that many people just don't see.
Hmmm,
This happened to myself and a group of friends a couple of weeks back.
The tail guy happened to be a highly trained police officer who drives an unmarked car as a 'day job'. Don't bother saying he should have known better, because that is what he said. I on the other hand would say I will not follow rules on spec just 'cause someone else says I should when there is no sensible reason. I will make my own judgements.
We were all riding sensibly and safely and were not riding fast. We were however at times overtaking on double whites, making progress past slow traffic.
I repeat we were all riding sensibly and safely. The guy at the front is a trained police motorcyclist and he (as we all do) deems it safe to make overtakes.
We spot the chopper too late and it lands and we get waved in. The two guys at the back are on vid over white lines.
What an enormous waste of money! Just 'cause some buerocrat decides to draw white lines all over the road does not mean you cannot complete safe overtakes, especially on a bike. If this was dangerous or unsafe then fair enough we should have got pulled, but this was not the case.
I would be very interested to know the cost of this 'arrest' in police time and helicopter cost to make absolutely no difference to road safety. Who pays for this?
They seem to be saying f'ck off out of wales and don't come back. No problem, they won't have to 'ask' again.
This happened to myself and a group of friends a couple of weeks back.
The tail guy happened to be a highly trained police officer who drives an unmarked car as a 'day job'. Don't bother saying he should have known better, because that is what he said. I on the other hand would say I will not follow rules on spec just 'cause someone else says I should when there is no sensible reason. I will make my own judgements.
We were all riding sensibly and safely and were not riding fast. We were however at times overtaking on double whites, making progress past slow traffic.
I repeat we were all riding sensibly and safely. The guy at the front is a trained police motorcyclist and he (as we all do) deems it safe to make overtakes.
We spot the chopper too late and it lands and we get waved in. The two guys at the back are on vid over white lines.
What an enormous waste of money! Just 'cause some buerocrat decides to draw white lines all over the road does not mean you cannot complete safe overtakes, especially on a bike. If this was dangerous or unsafe then fair enough we should have got pulled, but this was not the case.
I would be very interested to know the cost of this 'arrest' in police time and helicopter cost to make absolutely no difference to road safety. Who pays for this?
They seem to be saying f'ck off out of wales and don't come back. No problem, they won't have to 'ask' again.
I crossed some the other day.
I had a good 20 seconds along a slightly windy bit of road. Could see every patch along that part, saw nothing was coming, and crossed them.
Heading east out of Pool in Wharefdale towards Harewood near Leeds, just as you leave the 40mph and go national.
What I passed can only be described as a 15-20mph push-bike, but with a tiny 2 stroke engine puttering along.
It was out enough in the road for me to cross the double whites for just a few seconds.
Totally safe to overtake at that point, but about 10 seconds on and it isn't. But then another 10 seconds on it is again.
Then again, I've seen people coming round these corners as if they are some kind of life-sized scaletrix car following the centre lines, and then adjusting as they see you!
Again, it's the letter of the law being taken out of context just to get a conviction. Same with speed too, and now it seems to be spreading to anything on the road it seems.
Accelerating too fast is now somehow becoming a no no!
If I was chopper pilot I'd have looked and thought, hmmm, totally clear, nowt wrong with that. If they'd be watching so long and saw they were good skilled bikers then their judgement must be BADLY wrong to then see them commit such a bad crime
Load of sensationalist bollarks. If they were safe doing it, why worry?
As has been said, just like 50mph zones now being 40's and 30's for no real reason, there are more and more double whites for no reason.
All make good safe progress even harder and it more likely people will bend the rules using their own initiative.
Who decides to put these lines where they are? Who says they are correct? Why does the law have to be so black and white when conditions can change so much?
Ie, go 60mph in a national in rain, shine or 5m vis fog, and a "safety" camera in it's infintive wisdom says your "safe". Black and white, no inbetween or discretion, which is exactly what should have been used, discretion.
But Noooooooo, it's an easy conviction just for the sake of it. Tally ho, what hero's those chopper guys must be!
Next it'll all be double whites with only special dashed areas for overtaking, with overtaking cameras everywhere else!
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Monday 20th June 20:40
I had a good 20 seconds along a slightly windy bit of road. Could see every patch along that part, saw nothing was coming, and crossed them.
Heading east out of Pool in Wharefdale towards Harewood near Leeds, just as you leave the 40mph and go national.
What I passed can only be described as a 15-20mph push-bike, but with a tiny 2 stroke engine puttering along.
It was out enough in the road for me to cross the double whites for just a few seconds.
Totally safe to overtake at that point, but about 10 seconds on and it isn't. But then another 10 seconds on it is again.
Then again, I've seen people coming round these corners as if they are some kind of life-sized scaletrix car following the centre lines, and then adjusting as they see you!
Again, it's the letter of the law being taken out of context just to get a conviction. Same with speed too, and now it seems to be spreading to anything on the road it seems.
Accelerating too fast is now somehow becoming a no no!
If I was chopper pilot I'd have looked and thought, hmmm, totally clear, nowt wrong with that. If they'd be watching so long and saw they were good skilled bikers then their judgement must be BADLY wrong to then see them commit such a bad crime
Load of sensationalist bollarks. If they were safe doing it, why worry?
As has been said, just like 50mph zones now being 40's and 30's for no real reason, there are more and more double whites for no reason.
All make good safe progress even harder and it more likely people will bend the rules using their own initiative.
Who decides to put these lines where they are? Who says they are correct? Why does the law have to be so black and white when conditions can change so much?
Ie, go 60mph in a national in rain, shine or 5m vis fog, and a "safety" camera in it's infintive wisdom says your "safe". Black and white, no inbetween or discretion, which is exactly what should have been used, discretion.
But Noooooooo, it's an easy conviction just for the sake of it. Tally ho, what hero's those chopper guys must be!
Next it'll all be double whites with only special dashed areas for overtaking, with overtaking cameras everywhere else!
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Monday 20th June 20:40
Oh yeah, the other thing.
The copper crew announced that it was standard policy NOT to issue fixed penalty notices. In fact they did not have any FPN's on them because when one guy asked if they would issue these instead they tried (and failed) to get some! After finding out they had stopped a police officer.
Instead they can expect a court date.
So. Why only the FPNs in this case?? Sounds a bit fishy to me.....
The copper crew announced that it was standard policy NOT to issue fixed penalty notices. In fact they did not have any FPN's on them because when one guy asked if they would issue these instead they tried (and failed) to get some! After finding out they had stopped a police officer.
Instead they can expect a court date.
So. Why only the FPNs in this case?? Sounds a bit fishy to me.....
busa_rush said:
Solid white lines seem to be appearing like cash cameras, seems we're being dumbed down to the lowest level of numptie driver who needs to be told exactly what to do and when. Many sold white lines are irrelevant but others are pretty important, near blind summits for example that many people just don't see.
Agreed, solid white lines used to mean dangerous to cross because of bad visibility, but not necessarily any more.
Yes, often just a case of yet more dumbing down.
Dibble said:
Would it have been such a "result" if the motorcyclists hadn't been Police officers?
I suspect if they hadn't, the thread would have been very much along the lines of "WASTE OF POLCIE RESOURCES USING HELICOPTER TO CATCH MOTORCYCLISTS"...
I could not give a shit who they work for, the slime that put the chopper in the air is vermin and need flogging then hanging. Actually if they were cops out for a ride then thats good cos we need cops to practice. People who think this is bad should be exterminated. I hate Blair he is a tosser and his govenment is crap.
This seems more like police justifying them having a helicopter rather than road safety. If it was road safety how many police motorcyclists would the cost of the helicopter employ. It always makes me laugh when the programs usually with Alistair Stuart riding around, spot a "villan" cue heat sensitive mode and the usual guff spouted. They usually catch them and then what, 100 hours comunity service. So all the expense for a slap on the wrist. But in the one upmanship of the chief constable club you ain't no one with out a chopper.
As an aside, a friend who has a helicopter told me you can only land with the permission of the land owners, so if permission wasn't sought is the evidence inadmissable.
As an aside, a friend who has a helicopter told me you can only land with the permission of the land owners, so if permission wasn't sought is the evidence inadmissable.
Dibble said:
Would it have been such a "result" if the motorcyclists hadn't been Police officers?
I suspect if they hadn't, the thread would have been very much along the lines of "WASTE OF POLCIE RESOURCES USING HELICOPTER TO CATCH MOTORCYCLISTS"...
Dibble,
I wasn't infering that it was a GOOD result, merely that that was the outcome of the pull.
Personally, I don't think that the chopper should be out every weekend targetting bikers, but the Chief Constable has made bikers one of his pet hates (his other one is speeding; can you guess who it is?).
Cheers
james_j said:
Solid white lines seem to be appearing like cash cameras, seems we're being dumbed down to the lowest level of numptie driver who needs to be told exactly what to do and when. Many sold white lines are irrelevant but others are pretty important, near blind summits for example that many people just don't see.
Agreed, solid white lines used to mean dangerous to cross because of bad visibility, but not necessarily any more.
Yes, often just a case of yet more dumbing down.
Totally agree.
There was a time when you knew for certain that a double line where visibility seemed ok meant there was probably a hidden hazard (e.g. a farm track entrance or something).
These days its seems that the criteria for white lining have been changed to allow overtakes only where the slowest car on the market could make it past an artic up a 1:4 hill...
Ferkin waste of police resources!!!
What would be a more socially useful task for the helo's time?:-
- videoing bikers having a spirited ride in good conditions;
- chasing and videoing twoccers who don't care about either their current ride or anyone else around them;
- pursuing burglars across people's gardens and alleyways;
- mobile ANPR (I'm sure this IS possible with today's tech);
- acting as a rapid-response unit for such a geographically-diverse constabulary?
...anyone want to add any more?!?
As dibble and others have said, I don't care whether they were police, civvies, or martians...so long as they weren't driving dangerously...and with while lines currently that's up for debate!
(e.g. - was having a nice drive back banbury to stratford the other day, deliberately obeyed the white lines, despite some appalling siting of them...at least two stretches where I could have overtaken the 4x4 in front of me, probably 4-5 others where bikers would be safe...am starting to side with Dave's perspective, but value my clean license too much at the moment!!!)
What would be a more socially useful task for the helo's time?:-
- videoing bikers having a spirited ride in good conditions;
- chasing and videoing twoccers who don't care about either their current ride or anyone else around them;
- pursuing burglars across people's gardens and alleyways;
- mobile ANPR (I'm sure this IS possible with today's tech);
- acting as a rapid-response unit for such a geographically-diverse constabulary?
...anyone want to add any more?!?
As dibble and others have said, I don't care whether they were police, civvies, or martians...so long as they weren't driving dangerously...and with while lines currently that's up for debate!
(e.g. - was having a nice drive back banbury to stratford the other day, deliberately obeyed the white lines, despite some appalling siting of them...at least two stretches where I could have overtaken the 4x4 in front of me, probably 4-5 others where bikers would be safe...am starting to side with Dave's perspective, but value my clean license too much at the moment!!!)
havoc said:
As dibble and others have said, I don't care whether they were police, civvies, or martians...
but the problem comes when the coppers put on their uniforms and nick you for the same offence. So satisfying when you hear such stories 
When mateycop starts using a bit of common and stops talking absolute sh@ when he stops me then maybe I'll agree, until then I hope they do a very long stretch for this crime of the century.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff