No more PCCBs for 718s except for GT4/Spyder?
Discussion
As 911R says, I suspect they'll be replaced by the tungsten-coated steel discs you can get on a Macan - PCSBs. They give you the lack of brake dust that people want without the crazy replacement cost of the carbon ceramic discs. Hardly anyone cares about the unsprung weight aspect on a non-GT car, just the looks and lack of dust.
Taffy66 said:
I see no benefit on fitting 350mm f/r PCCBs over the steels..Different matter with the 410mm/390mm f/r on the Spyder and GT4.
I see it the opposite way - the GT steels at 380mm/380mm are great and you don't need PCCBs at 410mm/390mm.However, on a 718S they're 330mm/299mm in steel and 350mm/350mm in PCCB format. Quite a difference on the rear, but the cost is prohibitive. Hopefully the PCSBs will fix that.
well it depends in some respects. the standard 718 has 330/300 f/r iron brakes iirc. Even the S has the same size brakes. The GTS probably has one size up rotors (I'm lazy to check). 350/350 ceramics with 6 piston fronts will arguably offer some extra braking capacity. it quite probably makes (a fair bit) more difference than putting on ceramics on a gt4 that starts with 380 front and rear brakes already.
Twinfan said:
Taffy66 said:
I see no benefit on fitting 350mm f/r PCCBs over the steels..Different matter with the 410mm/390mm f/r on the Spyder and GT4.
I see it the opposite way - the GT steels at 380mm/380mm are great and you don't need PCCBs at 410mm/390mm.However, on a 718S they're 330mm/299mm in steel and 350mm/350mm in PCCB format. Quite a difference on the rear, but the cost is prohibitive. Hopefully the PCSBs will fix that.
FTW said:
arcamalpha said:
I wonder why? They’re basically a bolt-on option aren’t they? Or is there significant dev and test around ABS tuning etc?
You’re right, ESP and ABS will have a tune to suit the different friction coefficient, compressibility and thermal characteristics of the PCCBs. They are just too much money as a % of the cost of the car for most people to even think about them
From Evo X on Rennlist:
"Nice theories guys, but let clear things up with the official reasoning since I work for Porsche.
1) There are no plans to introduce PSCB to 718 model range at this time.
2) The PCCBs are being discontinued in the 718 base, T, S, and GTS because they use the smaller older gen system which has exceeds the legal limit for copper content post 2020.
The GT4 and Spyder use the newer larger setup which is still in compliance. These are planned to exclusively stay on 718 GT products and will not make their way down to others as an option."
Not sure how a smaller setup uses less copper, unless it's a percentage thing, but there you go!
"Nice theories guys, but let clear things up with the official reasoning since I work for Porsche.
1) There are no plans to introduce PSCB to 718 model range at this time.
2) The PCCBs are being discontinued in the 718 base, T, S, and GTS because they use the smaller older gen system which has exceeds the legal limit for copper content post 2020.
The GT4 and Spyder use the newer larger setup which is still in compliance. These are planned to exclusively stay on 718 GT products and will not make their way down to others as an option."
Not sure how a smaller setup uses less copper, unless it's a percentage thing, but there you go!
They will have to use the tungsten on all cars due to brake particulates, at some point.
It’s not for show it's all about particulate pollution and new levels cars much hit in the clean air race.
I doubt is has anything to do with copper content of a pccb.
Just no one speced them on those cars so why bother with the hassle of the option, they were not a particulate issue ?
Who knows, but expect to see tungsten on every disk by 2030.
It’s not for show it's all about particulate pollution and new levels cars much hit in the clean air race.
I doubt is has anything to do with copper content of a pccb.
Just no one speced them on those cars so why bother with the hassle of the option, they were not a particulate issue ?
Who knows, but expect to see tungsten on every disk by 2030.
Twinfan said:
From Evo X on Rennlist:
"Nice theories guys, but let clear things up with the official reasoning since I work for Porsche.
1) There are no plans to introduce PSCB to 718 model range at this time.
2) The PCCBs are being discontinued in the 718 base, T, S, and GTS because they use the smaller older gen system which has exceeds the legal limit for copper content post 2020.
The GT4 and Spyder use the newer larger setup which is still in compliance. These are planned to exclusively stay on 718 GT products and will not make their way down to others as an option."
Not sure how a smaller setup uses less copper, unless it's a percentage thing, but there you go!
Copper free brakes is a legislation for California and Washington only. Shame Porsche can’t handle/justify region specific brake pads so we all have to have copper free pads "Nice theories guys, but let clear things up with the official reasoning since I work for Porsche.
1) There are no plans to introduce PSCB to 718 model range at this time.
2) The PCCBs are being discontinued in the 718 base, T, S, and GTS because they use the smaller older gen system which has exceeds the legal limit for copper content post 2020.
The GT4 and Spyder use the newer larger setup which is still in compliance. These are planned to exclusively stay on 718 GT products and will not make their way down to others as an option."
Not sure how a smaller setup uses less copper, unless it's a percentage thing, but there you go!
Porsche911R said:
They will have to use the tungsten on all cars due to brake particulates, at some point.
It’s not for show it's all about particulate pollution and new levels cars much hit in the clean air race.
I doubt is has anything to do with copper content of a pccb.
Just no one speced them on those cars so why bother with the hassle of the option, they were not a particulate issue ?
Who knows, but expect to see tungsten on every disk by 2030.
Those tungsten discs look great in the showroom with their near mirror finish but on a car that’s done 20,000 miles they reflect the back of the filthy wheels spokes It’s not for show it's all about particulate pollution and new levels cars much hit in the clean air race.
I doubt is has anything to do with copper content of a pccb.
Just no one speced them on those cars so why bother with the hassle of the option, they were not a particulate issue ?
Who knows, but expect to see tungsten on every disk by 2030.
FTW said:
Twinfan said:
From Evo X on Rennlist:
"Nice theories guys, but let clear things up with the official reasoning since I work for Porsche.
1) There are no plans to introduce PSCB to 718 model range at this time.
2) The PCCBs are being discontinued in the 718 base, T, S, and GTS because they use the smaller older gen system which has exceeds the legal limit for copper content post 2020.
The GT4 and Spyder use the newer larger setup which is still in compliance. These are planned to exclusively stay on 718 GT products and will not make their way down to others as an option."
Not sure how a smaller setup uses less copper, unless it's a percentage thing, but there you go!
Copper free brakes is a legislation for California and Washington only. Shame Porsche can’t handle/justify region specific brake pads so we all have to have copper free pads "Nice theories guys, but let clear things up with the official reasoning since I work for Porsche.
1) There are no plans to introduce PSCB to 718 model range at this time.
2) The PCCBs are being discontinued in the 718 base, T, S, and GTS because they use the smaller older gen system which has exceeds the legal limit for copper content post 2020.
The GT4 and Spyder use the newer larger setup which is still in compliance. These are planned to exclusively stay on 718 GT products and will not make their way down to others as an option."
Not sure how a smaller setup uses less copper, unless it's a percentage thing, but there you go!
Porsche911R said:
that's the point the spokes won't be dirty :-)
Not with brake dust but the unpainted back of the spokes are filthy! Might just be the specific wheel styles on the various cars I’ve seen. Twinfan said:
How do the larger PCCBs pass the tests then, surely they have more copper in?
These pads will have been developed without the copper additives. Aston’s new CCBs have copper free pads. Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff