COVID19 - Employer & employee relationship

[Candellara]

With the huge number of job losses in the pipeline i'm guessing the employer & employee relationship is going to take a fairly significant shift in some sectors?

Over the last decade, employee's have held the cards and employers have had to work hard to both recruit & retain staff. The pay and perk demands of millennial & Gen Z staff including total flexible working, free coffee all day, fruit bowls, breakfast, gym memberships, unlimited paternity leave, constant pay demands etc etc etc - now changes to some extent?

I'm a firm believer that all businesses need to try and attract the very best staff and this won't change for some business sectors but i can't help but think we're about to see a seismic shift in the balance of power for "middle England" and the "average employee"?

Thoughts?

[sanguinary]

I think so. I've become a little less tolerant recently towards the attitude of some of the staff.

Over the last three months I've become very aware of those who see the bigger picture and have worked their backsides off to keep the place together. Put that against the ones who complained about being in, who didn't want to come back after furlough (which we asked for volunteers, rather than making it mandatory), and don't like the fact that we've implemented measures such as set break times to help keep numbers down in the break rooms.

Nothing major has changed on site in the working day, but boy do some them like to complain. If they decide to move on, which they probably won't, I'll happily wave them on their way!

[Candellara]

sanguinary said:

I think so. I've become a little less tolerant recently towards the attitude of some of the staff.

Over the last three months I've become very aware of those who see the bigger picture and have worked their backsides off to keep the place together. Put that against the ones who complained about being in, who didn't want to come back after furlough (which we asked for volunteers, rather than making it mandatory), and don't like the fact that we've implemented measures such as set break times to help keep numbers down in the break rooms.

Nothing major has changed on site in the working day, but boy do some them like to complain. If they decide to move on, which they probably won't, I'll happily wave them on their way!

I'll choose my words carefully but COVID has instigated some useful decisions in as much that any employees that are "takers" rather than "givers" have had to exit the business. In the good times, i think it's evidently clear that there are alot of staff that companies have been prepared to carry to some extent. Every business needs soldiers.

But, in order to streamline business and focus on those who really add value in terms of work ethic has led to those who do not readily fall into that "can do" attitude - have been let go. Only the best soldiers survive.

Has businesses lost? I don't think so. It's a case now that every employee (certainly in SME's) really has to make their input and flexibility count. Those who can't - don't have a job anymore.

Noticeably, it's a much nicer place to work already. All the negative individuals that stroll into the office at 9am and ps off on the dot at 5pm are gone. The place is more productive, more positive and focused upon making the company survive and prosper so jobs are protected.

Dare i say it, it's been a blessing in disguise from that perspective and i think we'll be REALLY careful about who we recruit going forward ensuring any lame ducks are let go way before the two year period.

It's a shame we don't have an American stance on employment where you can hire & fire without issue. I'm sure our business would hire alot more staff if there wasn't such an issue with getting rid of under performers. I'm sure the owners of our business contemplated closing the business during this period as they've already made their money so i dof my cap to them for taking the harsh staff decisions they have and keeping the "givers" employed.

Edited by Candellara on Friday 17th July 20:48

Edited by Candellara on Friday 17th July 21:00

Edited by Candellara on Friday 17th July 21:10

Edited by Candellara on Friday 17th July 21:13

[anxious_ant]

The ball is firmly in the employers park now.
So much easier to let staff go.

[SpeedBash]

I was going to say it's surprising how many employees still don't get it but it's not really - even in the midst of a pandemic and the effect it is having on the economy and will have once the furlough scheme ceases.

I read a thread on another forum a few days ago where someone was moaning about his boss - apparently, she has a go at him for coming in 5 mins early when, she thinks, he should be coming in 15 mins early so that he is ready to rock 'n' roll at 9 and not 9.10 once he has logged in etc.

Anyway, the general gist from most posters was along the lines of stick to your guns, speak to a union rep, they should pay you more money etc.

I was one of the few who, simply put, suggested it wasn't a good idea to ps off your boss when we are about to head into the mother of all recessions and companies are cutting back on staff.

I don't know if it's a generational thing or what put people don't seem to understand how lucky they are to have a job.

[djc206]

SpeedBash said:

I was going to say it's surprising how many employees still don't get it but it's not really - even in the midst of a pandemic and the effect it is having on the economy and will have once the furlough scheme ceases.

I read a thread on another forum a few days ago where someone was moaning about his boss - apparently, she has a go at him for coming in 5 mins early when, she thinks, he should be coming in 15 mins early so that he is ready to rock 'n' roll at 9 and not 9.10 once he has logged in etc.

Anyway, the general gist from most posters was along the lines of stick to your guns, speak to a union rep, they should pay you more money etc.

I was one of the few who, simply put, suggested it wasn't a good idea to ps off your boss when we are about to head into the mother of all recessions and companies are cutting back on staff.

I don't know if it's a generational thing or what put people don't seem to understand how lucky they are to have a job.

If an employer wants someone to be at work before their contracted hours they should change their contracted hours to meet their expectations. It’s utterly bizarre that they’d operate in any other way.

My shift times and my contracted hours don’t match. I’m paid to turn up, brief myself and take a handover from the outgoing watch before my shift starts, that’s reflected in my contracted hours being rounded up. Very simple, everyone knows where they stand and lateness is not tolerated, it’s left to me to judge how long that’s all going to take and when to pull into the car park but if my shift starts at 6:30 I damned well better in that seat at 6:30 up and running.

I don’t understand why so many people on here feel the need to boast about being pushed around by their employers or playing the game of presenteeism as if they’re somehow a badge of honour. I’m assuming that Generation X didn’t think brown nosing or teachers pets were cool?

Unemployment is on the rise but it’s rising from an historic low and anyone with actual skills shouldn’t be afraid to tell their employer to wind their necks in. If employees are expected to abide by contracts then so should employers. Someone above wishes we were more like the US, I wish we were more like the Scandis. No one should be pushed around, it’s not the school playground.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Covid-19 has shown employers which employees they can rely on and those which they can't. If push comes to shove, no prizes for guessing which will be retained.

[Candellara]

i think it really is a generational thing and also how you were brought up.

A good work ethic was instilled by my parents - who were always grateful to their employers for their employment.

I was always taught that if my hours were 9 until 5 then you should be starting work at 9am - not just arriving for work and then getting a cup of coffee.

Hopefully the forthcoming mother of all recessions will make people a bit more appreciative of their employers.

[Flooble]

The government has made it clear that work is now optional. With vast tracts of the country not having worked since March, you can understand why people will have a skewed perception of the power balance.

If things change, and we get a depression without a government printing money and paying people to sit at home watching netflix, then we may see things change. But at the moment, we won't.

[bitchstewie]

Candellara said:

i think it really is a generational thing and also how you were brought up.

A good work ethic was instilled by my parents - who were always grateful to their employers for their employment.

I was always taught that if my hours were 9 until 5 then you should be starting work at 9am - not just arriving for work and then getting a cup of coffee.

Hopefully the forthcoming mother of all recessions will make people a bit more appreciative of their employers.

I think it's that but also a bit of a give/take thing with your employer.

The "starting work at 9am" is fair to ask if you're an employer but perhaps also don't be surprised if the employee thinks that the "finish work at 5pm" part of that deal is also fair.

In reality I think things tend to work best when both sides show flexibility (where appropriate and possible) and common sense.

I had a couple of my team discussing something on Teams at 9pm the other night.

We don't ask that of them so it was entirely their choice and it highlights nicely that if you give people some flexibility most will appreciate it.

We won't be asking why they aren't online at 9am every single day.

[Fusion777]

The power balance in this country is generally in favour of employers. We're seen as a country that has pretty flexible labour laws (i.e. easier to sack people) on the international scene, vs our Continental competitors. Look up the type of protesting that goes on in France whenever changes to employee rights are proposed or business closures, and you'll see what I mean.

In Germany there is worker representation on boards, and unions and management work together a lot. Productivity is also higher in the aforementioned two countries than here.