RE: JLR launches 'Pivotal' subscription service
Thursday 2nd July 2020
JLR launches 'Pivotal' subscription service
Like the idea of a Range Rover, but think you might want an electric car at some point? JLR has a solution
We all know the car ownership model is changing, and changing pretty rapidly. Many consumers no longer want to be tied into one vehicle for years on end, preferring the flexibility offered by lease alternatives. Some are going even further than that, services like the Porsche Passport offering customers the chance to experience the whole range for a fixed monthly fee, with all other costs included.
Well, now Jaguar Land Rover is joining the like of Porsche and Mercedes-Benz in offering its own subscription service, called 'Pivotal'. Backed by InMotion, JLR's venture capital and mobility services department, Pivotal aims to allow customers to "experience either the experience either the latest technology from the smarter, more refined and premium Jaguar range, or trial the unrivalled breadth of capability, versatility and luxury offerings of the Land Rover range, swapping between models when it suits them."
The service will launch with the Jaguar i-Pace and F-Pace, as well as all four Range Rover models (Evoque, Velar, Sport and the actual Range Rover) plus the Land Rover Discovery and Discovery Sport. Which is a lot of SUVs - with more joining the ranks soon - but then the buying (or subscribing) public does love an SUV...
The subscription itself is pitched as "totally flexible", with those signed up able to change vehicle every six months or pause membership as suits. All require a £550 sign-on fee, with packages then starting at £750 a month for Blue (Discovery Sport, Evoque or F-Pace), £1,150 a month for Indigo (Velar, Discovery or I-Pace), Violet at £1,350 (with a Range Rover Sport) or the Ultraviolet Range Rover subscription, at £1,600. All tiers include tax, insurance, servicing, repairs and rental in the monthly cost. The cars themselves are set to be sourced from approved JLR retailer stock.
Now, not that long ago, the notion of a car subscription service would have seemed like folly; paying a lot of money to have access to cars but without your name next to any single one was unheard of. But the flexibility appeals now, as does the simplicity, in a world that's both more time poor than it ever has been and also desperate for the very latest of everything.
The car subscription concept, the broader idea of Mobility as a Service (MaaS), is only going to grow; some estimates put the latter market as a $52bn industry by 2027, with 10 per cent of European car sales forecasted to be subscriptions in just five years. So, it's understandable that JLR is after a slice of this burgeoning market - and expect plenty more to follow them.
Discussion
A few years ago I would have thought this was nuts but, tbh, it has appeal. All costs included and you can switch cars. Disco for the holiday season, RR for the winter.
I see my daily motoring needs as utility anyway compared to fun cars so have no issue with not owning - at least you won’t get the p/ex sweats!
I see my daily motoring needs as utility anyway compared to fun cars so have no issue with not owning - at least you won’t get the p/ex sweats!
I don't get it.
Stupid maths time (fatish middle aged fella in a reasonable area with off street parking and a clean driving history):
Basic package seems like a £40k ish car for £550 sign on and £750 a month so £9k a year or £36.5k for 4 years but everything is included.
A nicely spec'd PCP package could be £3k down, £450 a month so £5.4k a year or £21.6k plus insurance at £400 a year (£1.6k) plus a service package and road tax call that £600 a year (£2.4k) giving a grand total of £28.6k lets be really stupid and call it £30k in case I missed anything.
That makes it £6.5k for the privilege of swapping to a new car every 6 months? OK so the pausing the membership is good if you don't use a car often and you like something flashy. But the T&C's must have limitations to them for example; you can only pause for so long, you have to renew your membership every so often, wear and tear on the car (probably not that far off a lease return), mileage limitations and no option at the end.
The last three don't really count as I can mitigate those by buying and keeping the car at the end of term, but if I were to return it would likely be the same rules apply.
I'm also a little unsure by what they mean when they say "The cars themselves are set to be sourced from approved JLR retailer stock" is that brand new or can it be lightly used?
- I want a discovery Sport
- Of course Mr Moonpie, here's a lovely blue one off the forecourt with 5,000 miles on it that is available in the scheme.
-No thank you I wanted black...
- Ah yes a very popular colour on the discovery sport, sorry we don't have any of those left on the scheme.
- Well can you order me a new one?
- No thats not how it works...
Last time I ordered a car it wasn't far off 6 months to get exactly what I wanted. Are they going to make all their range more standardised with less options? Or maybe thats for the base model and you pay extra on top of the £750 to turn things on like the BMW article on electric seats or something earlier on PH... surely not every car in the scheme would be brand new delivery miles?
Like I say I just don't get it. I mean obviously it makes financial sense or they wouldn't offer it and I get that everyone's needs and ability to consume is different, this is just another way to flog cars for a monthly that people can or perceive they can afford.
Maybe someone could educate me as to why I would consider doing this, do I really want to swap between a discovery sport, evoque and F-pace what Jaguar will they add to that?
Where is the value?
Stupid maths time (fatish middle aged fella in a reasonable area with off street parking and a clean driving history):
Basic package seems like a £40k ish car for £550 sign on and £750 a month so £9k a year or £36.5k for 4 years but everything is included.
A nicely spec'd PCP package could be £3k down, £450 a month so £5.4k a year or £21.6k plus insurance at £400 a year (£1.6k) plus a service package and road tax call that £600 a year (£2.4k) giving a grand total of £28.6k lets be really stupid and call it £30k in case I missed anything.
That makes it £6.5k for the privilege of swapping to a new car every 6 months? OK so the pausing the membership is good if you don't use a car often and you like something flashy. But the T&C's must have limitations to them for example; you can only pause for so long, you have to renew your membership every so often, wear and tear on the car (probably not that far off a lease return), mileage limitations and no option at the end.
The last three don't really count as I can mitigate those by buying and keeping the car at the end of term, but if I were to return it would likely be the same rules apply.
I'm also a little unsure by what they mean when they say "The cars themselves are set to be sourced from approved JLR retailer stock" is that brand new or can it be lightly used?
- I want a discovery Sport
- Of course Mr Moonpie, here's a lovely blue one off the forecourt with 5,000 miles on it that is available in the scheme.
-No thank you I wanted black...
- Ah yes a very popular colour on the discovery sport, sorry we don't have any of those left on the scheme.
- Well can you order me a new one?
- No thats not how it works...
Last time I ordered a car it wasn't far off 6 months to get exactly what I wanted. Are they going to make all their range more standardised with less options? Or maybe thats for the base model and you pay extra on top of the £750 to turn things on like the BMW article on electric seats or something earlier on PH... surely not every car in the scheme would be brand new delivery miles?
Like I say I just don't get it. I mean obviously it makes financial sense or they wouldn't offer it and I get that everyone's needs and ability to consume is different, this is just another way to flog cars for a monthly that people can or perceive they can afford.
Maybe someone could educate me as to why I would consider doing this, do I really want to swap between a discovery sport, evoque and F-pace what Jaguar will they add to that?
Where is the value?
"Jaguar Land Rover is joining the like of Porsche and Mercedes-Benz in offering its own subscription service"
MB has just shut down their US service. https://www.motoring.com.au/mercedes-abandons-subs...
MB has just shut down their US service. https://www.motoring.com.au/mercedes-abandons-subs...
markkeo said:
I can see the appeal but I suspect that ‘the devil is in the detail’, i.e. restricted mileage, consumables responsibility, vehicle condition on return etc.....
I think you are right here.For example, tyres, if you are the first/second renter of the car, they will be fine, but what if you are the 4th/5th person to have it and the tyres need replacing? Who covers that cost? You would have to assume that JLR do, the same as Hertz do on rental cars.
I'm sure there is a market for this, everything else seems to be going to "aaS" (As A Service) models. It makes sense for businesses as it reduces capital expenses and becomes a monthly expense which I believe is more tax efficient and also much more predictable and therefore manageable.
Clearly the devil will be in teh detail. How is fair wear and tear and mileage included - a sticking point for many even today - while the costs to join are also quite substantial as they necessarily have to be. But it does have a clear appeal - and I think like pink car syndrome it is one of those ones that comes around every ten or fifteen years.
And that appeal was also there when Mercedes offered something not disimilar many years ago - so you could have your SL as your primary car - but then borrow something else for the family holiday. I think it died a death very quickly (but no doubt I'll now find it's still going)
Maybe this one that sounds good in our heads, so the marketing team say we have a great idea and research says everyone wants it, but when we as consumers are asked to pay up we get all odd and just melt away. But maybe the zeitgeist is right today?
And that appeal was also there when Mercedes offered something not disimilar many years ago - so you could have your SL as your primary car - but then borrow something else for the family holiday. I think it died a death very quickly (but no doubt I'll now find it's still going)
Maybe this one that sounds good in our heads, so the marketing team say we have a great idea and research says everyone wants it, but when we as consumers are asked to pay up we get all odd and just melt away. But maybe the zeitgeist is right today?
Moonpie21 said:
I don't get it.
...
Where is the value?
I think you got close to answering your own question....
Where is the value?
With PCP deals, you order a car and you are committed to paying that over the course of the deal.
If you fail to keep up your end of he bargain, you get hit with a big old penalty.
Here, you do not
Rent vs lease
There's more risk to the supplier due to the ease with which the consumer can end the agreement, therefore the cost per month/year would generally be greater on a rental, over a like for like extended period. (I hope that makes sense)
Really interesting to see how this progresses, £750 a month seems like a lot to rent a Discovery Sport but perhaps with everything thrown in except fuel it makes sense to a lot of people.
I think it’s a big mindset change in the UK car buying public and it won’t happen overnight. However I can see it becoming more popular considering cars get more and more expensive, (exceeding wage growth IMO). I’m sure throwing £xxxx at PCP deposits and finding yourself in negative equity on the value of the vehicle is becoming more common. Factor this with extended deals beyond the OEM warrantee to lower monthly costs and then running into reliability issues, people will tire of it. So it’s inevitable a demand will increase for hassle free fixed cost motoring.
Perhaps schemes like this might even push up demand / values for second car ownership i.e. rent a daily and have a modern classic in the garage for weekends.
I think it’s a big mindset change in the UK car buying public and it won’t happen overnight. However I can see it becoming more popular considering cars get more and more expensive, (exceeding wage growth IMO). I’m sure throwing £xxxx at PCP deposits and finding yourself in negative equity on the value of the vehicle is becoming more common. Factor this with extended deals beyond the OEM warrantee to lower monthly costs and then running into reliability issues, people will tire of it. So it’s inevitable a demand will increase for hassle free fixed cost motoring.
Perhaps schemes like this might even push up demand / values for second car ownership i.e. rent a daily and have a modern classic in the garage for weekends.
JLR have history with this. They launched the "Carpe" scheme two years ago. How did that work out for them?
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/103744/jagu...
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/103744/jagu...
silentbrown said:
"Jaguar Land Rover is joining the like of Porsche and Mercedes-Benz in offering its own subscription service"
MB has just shut down their US service. https://www.motoring.com.au/mercedes-abandons-subs...
And BMW scaled back their DriveNow service, planning to shut London in February.MB has just shut down their US service. https://www.motoring.com.au/mercedes-abandons-subs...
And what happened to JLR's Carpe and why does www.drivecarpe.com redirect to drivepivotal?
It's not even new cars.
https://www.jaguar.co.uk/offers-and-finance/vehicl...
https://www.jaguar.co.uk/offers-and-finance/vehicl...
JLR said:
Are the cars new?
The cars are not brand new, but every vehicle in our Pivotal fleet will be under two years old. Our Jaguar Land Rover approved vehicles are fully maintained and under warranty.
You can change more often than 6 months, but there's a £250 charge. The cars are not brand new, but every vehicle in our Pivotal fleet will be under two years old. Our Jaguar Land Rover approved vehicles are fully maintained and under warranty.
Instead of comparing to a 4 year lock-in PCP, look at it this way:
Compare it to renting a Range Rover from Avis or similar. £1600 will get you, I reckon, a week's rental of a FFRR. Plus dealing with Avis at their offices etc.
EV Jag for summer, Range Rover for winter, swap for a Disco for that one family holiday to Europe for two weeks of the year where you need 7 seats.
You don't worry about tax, insurance, anything else. You get a car dropped off at your house, and you use it. It's not to your spec, it's not your colour and it's not brand new, but it's most likely in much better nick than an Avis Range Rover, and most likely a decent spec since they have to retail it at the end.
There will of course be guidelines for condition etc. I suspect at the moment, given that JLR would prefer to keep you in the scheme and they're running it as a pilot most likely, the maintenance standards will be high, and the desire to pursue you for tiny wear and tear will be minimal. In time that may change of course if they want (more) profitability!
It really doesn't need to suit everyone, but if there is a small percentage of people for whom this works better than committing to a 3 year PCP deal, then it's cool that it's being offered and they can make it work financially.
Compare it to renting a Range Rover from Avis or similar. £1600 will get you, I reckon, a week's rental of a FFRR. Plus dealing with Avis at their offices etc.
EV Jag for summer, Range Rover for winter, swap for a Disco for that one family holiday to Europe for two weeks of the year where you need 7 seats.
You don't worry about tax, insurance, anything else. You get a car dropped off at your house, and you use it. It's not to your spec, it's not your colour and it's not brand new, but it's most likely in much better nick than an Avis Range Rover, and most likely a decent spec since they have to retail it at the end.
There will of course be guidelines for condition etc. I suspect at the moment, given that JLR would prefer to keep you in the scheme and they're running it as a pilot most likely, the maintenance standards will be high, and the desire to pursue you for tiny wear and tear will be minimal. In time that may change of course if they want (more) profitability!
It really doesn't need to suit everyone, but if there is a small percentage of people for whom this works better than committing to a 3 year PCP deal, then it's cool that it's being offered and they can make it work financially.
As an alternative to purchase or PCP this sounds like terrible value, but as an alternative to renting a car it's not that bad...
This seems aimed at people who want far more flexibility, who might use a car for a couple of months while working on one project or living in one place, but not for the rest of the time.
There are a lot of economically active young(er) people who typically change jobs/projects and move house at least once, if not multiple times, a year. To someone my age, that's just what reality is like. There's now zero chance of getting a job for life and there's zero chance of ever affording to buy a place to live where we would actually like to live (especially in London...), so everything has to be far more flexible, because it's all inherently temporary.
Just like the gym and Netflix et al, they'll make their money from people who get used to the convenience and forget/are reticent to cancel their subscription.
It's still enormously expensive, and not for me (would rather buy used and save a fortune), but I can see the appeal to many people.
This seems aimed at people who want far more flexibility, who might use a car for a couple of months while working on one project or living in one place, but not for the rest of the time.
There are a lot of economically active young(er) people who typically change jobs/projects and move house at least once, if not multiple times, a year. To someone my age, that's just what reality is like. There's now zero chance of getting a job for life and there's zero chance of ever affording to buy a place to live where we would actually like to live (especially in London...), so everything has to be far more flexible, because it's all inherently temporary.
Just like the gym and Netflix et al, they'll make their money from people who get used to the convenience and forget/are reticent to cancel their subscription.
It's still enormously expensive, and not for me (would rather buy used and save a fortune), but I can see the appeal to many people.
Edited by TheOrangePeril on Thursday 2nd July 11:07
I love the idea, but the maths (even Man Maths) is a big fail.
Bearing in mind these prices are "from", I'm guessing they will have a maximum of 5000 miles per year, similar to cheapest lease deals.
On 5000 PA, you can easily lease:
Evoque for £350 p/m (and £350 down)
Discovery for £500 p/m (and £500 down)
Velar for £500 p/m(and £1500 down)
RR Vogue for £950 p/m (and £950 down)
I know they are including insurance too (the wife's insurance when she had an Evoque was £400 per year), but the "Pivotal" prices are not far off double lease prices.
Granted you're paying a premium for the convenience of swapping cars more often, which I love the idea of and would be happy to pay a premium. But every 6 months doesn't really give much flexibility. I want a Velar when going on a tour of Europe for 2 weeks with the family, but then a F Type when the kids are off on a school residential, so the wife and I can go out for a drive like we used too with the roof down. That is what I'd pay a premium for, not every 6 months.
Hopefully when leasing companies start offering this service they will become cheaper, which is only a matter of time, surely?
Bearing in mind these prices are "from", I'm guessing they will have a maximum of 5000 miles per year, similar to cheapest lease deals.
On 5000 PA, you can easily lease:
Evoque for £350 p/m (and £350 down)
Discovery for £500 p/m (and £500 down)
Velar for £500 p/m(and £1500 down)
RR Vogue for £950 p/m (and £950 down)
I know they are including insurance too (the wife's insurance when she had an Evoque was £400 per year), but the "Pivotal" prices are not far off double lease prices.
Granted you're paying a premium for the convenience of swapping cars more often, which I love the idea of and would be happy to pay a premium. But every 6 months doesn't really give much flexibility. I want a Velar when going on a tour of Europe for 2 weeks with the family, but then a F Type when the kids are off on a school residential, so the wife and I can go out for a drive like we used too with the roof down. That is what I'd pay a premium for, not every 6 months.
Hopefully when leasing companies start offering this service they will become cheaper, which is only a matter of time, surely?
[quote]
- I want a discovery Sport
- Of course Mr Moonpie, here's a lovely blue one off the forecourt with 5,000 miles on it that is available in the scheme.
-No thank you I wanted black...
- Ah yes a very popular colour on the discovery sport, sorry we don't have any of those left on the scheme.
- Well can you order me a new one?
- No thats not how it works...
[/quote]
Good point raised - Thinking about how to solve this in a production / prep setting - perhaps "wrapping" the car to order could provide a solution?
The car would be manufactured in a single base paint colour and then be vinyl wrapped to suit customer preferences. The vinyl wrap can be removed and replaced easily, allowing a wrong colour car to be changed relatively quickly and cheaply.
I can see this working in a world where the car dealership model becomes more a warehouse, valet, service and repair, and vinyl wrapping centre.
- I want a discovery Sport
- Of course Mr Moonpie, here's a lovely blue one off the forecourt with 5,000 miles on it that is available in the scheme.
-No thank you I wanted black...
- Ah yes a very popular colour on the discovery sport, sorry we don't have any of those left on the scheme.
- Well can you order me a new one?
- No thats not how it works...
[/quote]
Good point raised - Thinking about how to solve this in a production / prep setting - perhaps "wrapping" the car to order could provide a solution?
The car would be manufactured in a single base paint colour and then be vinyl wrapped to suit customer preferences. The vinyl wrap can be removed and replaced easily, allowing a wrong colour car to be changed relatively quickly and cheaply.
I can see this working in a world where the car dealership model becomes more a warehouse, valet, service and repair, and vinyl wrapping centre.
Collaudatore said:
I think you got close to answering your own question.
With PCP deals, you order a car and you are committed to paying that over the course of the deal.
If you fail to keep up your end of he bargain, you get hit with a big old penalty.
Here, you do not
Rent vs lease
There's more risk to the supplier due to the ease with which the consumer can end the agreement, therefore the cost per month/year would generally be greater on a rental, over a like for like extended period. (I hope that makes sense)
I see your point. From a personal perspective I see the PCP through to the end, so there is no negative equity, just do I want to return it or not. Some I have some I haven't. As was said in another post it doesn't make sense for me, but I suppose it may to someone who rents cars regularly and wants a variety of types but they have to pay big to get the best freedom.With PCP deals, you order a car and you are committed to paying that over the course of the deal.
If you fail to keep up your end of he bargain, you get hit with a big old penalty.
Here, you do not
Rent vs lease
There's more risk to the supplier due to the ease with which the consumer can end the agreement, therefore the cost per month/year would generally be greater on a rental, over a like for like extended period. (I hope that makes sense)
I just see it as new car prices for up to 2 year old cars.
Maybe it will be all the old lease cars they have they can't shift and they rent them out till they can't or flog and when they reach an acceptable level of inventory then they just close the program having made good money out of it. Better than them just sitting there.
The headline costs appear quite high but when you dig into the detail of what you get versus the alternative costs for a lease it does start to make sense.
The cars are very likely to be ex JLR management vehicles (the bandings match the JLR management bandings) so the cars are lightly used and generally well specified. You won't get a choice of colours/specs with this scheme.
The mileage allowance is 18k PA and the cars are fully maintained.
A quick look on a leasing comparison site at 3+23 profile shows an equivalent F-Pace at c£750 PM and a Velar at c£900 pm. These aren't maintained/insured either. The £750 / £1,150 compares favourably.
No doubt you can find a cheaper way to get into one of these vehicles but for the low commitment and flexibility it looks good to me.
Who would do it? If you receive a car allowance but the current environment means an uncertain future this fits nicely. I wouldn't want to commit to a personal 3 year lease at this point.
The cars are very likely to be ex JLR management vehicles (the bandings match the JLR management bandings) so the cars are lightly used and generally well specified. You won't get a choice of colours/specs with this scheme.
The mileage allowance is 18k PA and the cars are fully maintained.
A quick look on a leasing comparison site at 3+23 profile shows an equivalent F-Pace at c£750 PM and a Velar at c£900 pm. These aren't maintained/insured either. The £750 / £1,150 compares favourably.
No doubt you can find a cheaper way to get into one of these vehicles but for the low commitment and flexibility it looks good to me.
Who would do it? If you receive a car allowance but the current environment means an uncertain future this fits nicely. I wouldn't want to commit to a personal 3 year lease at this point.
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