Trade my 997.2 for a 991?
Discussion
Like all 911 owners I have upgrade-itis. I have a 50000 mile manual 997.2 C4S which is well sorted (PSE, LSD, Short shift etc) plus had lots of expensive maintenance recently. It isn’t a daily driver (I have a X3M comp and a Defender for that) and is only used when weather good and the journey will be fun. I find myself looking at newer 991 gen cars as reviews all say they’re better in every way and my 997 feels a bit poor relation. And I don’t have adaptive sports seats! But are they ‘more 911’? Should I spend 20-30k and get a 991 S? Would always be a manual. Or more and get a GTS? Or if I go down that road stay with 997 and get a 997 GTS? Not interested in tracking (or turbos).
Interested in those that have made switch, particularly from gen 2 997s. Not interested in PDK comparisons is that has motivated switch (ie from man to PDK). Many thanks!
Interested in those that have made switch, particularly from gen 2 997s. Not interested in PDK comparisons is that has motivated switch (ie from man to PDK). Many thanks!
I am a 997 fanboy, so very much biased and would never trade a 7.2 for a vanilla 9.1. The upsides of the 9.1 to me are that it is more "modern" in terms of interior, tech etc. But that is largely irrelevant for me in a driver's car. The 7.2 wins for me hands down due to better steering as well as feeling more compact and more "classic" 911. My Touring - as fantastic as it is - would go well before the 7.2 GT3s if I had to sell
Had both, ever since i changed I’ve read nothing but how fab 997s are, and they are right. They are both great cars but the 997 has more essence of 911 IMO. It feels a bit lighter and more nimble. The advantage with the Cabs is that 991 in profile with the roof up is truer to the 911 shape.
In your position I’d keep 997 in tip top condition and perhaps upgrade head unit if better tech is required.
997s have aged very well and still look great out on the road as well as having the best engine.
Edit spelling.
In your position I’d keep 997 in tip top condition and perhaps upgrade head unit if better tech is required.
997s have aged very well and still look great out on the road as well as having the best engine.
Edit spelling.
Edited by David W. on Thursday 9th July 09:19
Edited by David W. on Thursday 9th July 09:20
Good 997s are really hard to find and you will struggle to replace it if you don't like the 991. Some dealers I've spoken to have even asked me if I know of any for sale!
I'd say keep it based on my own priorities but you may have different views. You'll benefit from an extended drive with a 991 to really know if you prefer it or not.
I'd say keep it based on my own priorities but you may have different views. You'll benefit from an extended drive with a 991 to really know if you prefer it or not.
I'd skip the gen.1 991, It's EPS is vague, My Dad had a 50th and it was a Beautiful car, Very well made and lovely to drive but it felt a bit sterile. Lacking in a bit of involvement. He got rid of a 993 to buy it and regreted it straight away.
I'd do as suggested above, take it on an extended drive,
As for your 997, They are becoming difficult to find in top condition and as you Manual commands a premium. The .2 seems to be the go to car at the minute, not too old and not that new. I have a C4S .1 and would only change it for a 997.1 GT3 or RS ? but i'm trying to find a way to keep it and buy the other....... There's not much i've driven that comes at you thro the pedals, gear stick and the steering feel is just about perfect for a B road car. The size of the 991 doesn't bother me but i just prefer the 997.
From the car you have and the way you describe it I would not go for a 991 Carrera S whether it’s a Gen 1 or 2. I think they feel like a GT rather than a Sports Car unless you really push them hard.
Your car has a nicer, gearbox and steering than any manual 991 this side of a 991.2 GT3. You’ve also got an LSD which is rare on 991’s apart from the T and GT3. It really depends on what floats your boat but for me personally If I was looking at a 991 I don’t think I’d think about it unless it was a 991.2 GTS. Yes it’s turbocharged but it’s got much better steering than a 991.1 and people that switched from 991.1 GTS to 991.2 GTS all thought it was a much better car.
I’ve got a manual 997 GTS and thought long and hard about selling it and buying my OPC’s manual 991.2 GTS demo which had PCCB’s and Buckets so a proper drivers spec. The big difference in the cars is the chassis on 991.2....felt a lot more sophisticated and could do with bad road surfaces better than my 997 GTS but it’s by no means a bad car on UK roads....as a standard car it feels just the right balance between being a firm sporty ride and compliant enough not to make you think about every pot hole.
The big difference physically between 991 and 997 is the size of the glass house....it’s wider at the wing mirrors so feels a lot bigger. In reality the width at the rear wheels isn’t that different.
HTH !
Your car has a nicer, gearbox and steering than any manual 991 this side of a 991.2 GT3. You’ve also got an LSD which is rare on 991’s apart from the T and GT3. It really depends on what floats your boat but for me personally If I was looking at a 991 I don’t think I’d think about it unless it was a 991.2 GTS. Yes it’s turbocharged but it’s got much better steering than a 991.1 and people that switched from 991.1 GTS to 991.2 GTS all thought it was a much better car.
I’ve got a manual 997 GTS and thought long and hard about selling it and buying my OPC’s manual 991.2 GTS demo which had PCCB’s and Buckets so a proper drivers spec. The big difference in the cars is the chassis on 991.2....felt a lot more sophisticated and could do with bad road surfaces better than my 997 GTS but it’s by no means a bad car on UK roads....as a standard car it feels just the right balance between being a firm sporty ride and compliant enough not to make you think about every pot hole.
The big difference physically between 991 and 997 is the size of the glass house....it’s wider at the wing mirrors so feels a lot bigger. In reality the width at the rear wheels isn’t that different.
HTH !
I had a 997 CS manual and loved it. Until I drove the 991. I have a 991.1, CS ( non turbo ) with PDK. The 991.2 has the turbos and are completely different cars. I test drove the equivalent 991.2 and recently the 992. Got back into my 991.1 and it was so much better.
Sport Plus switched on, the car has a much better feel and noise. Pops and bangs from the exhaust and it feels just as fast with a lot more character.
The newer cars are a lot quieter and more grand tourers I think.
Just check out the difference between the 991.1 and .2 before you buy.
Sport Plus switched on, the car has a much better feel and noise. Pops and bangs from the exhaust and it feels just as fast with a lot more character.
The newer cars are a lot quieter and more grand tourers I think.
Just check out the difference between the 991.1 and .2 before you buy.
I know what you mean re Pops and Bangs, My Dads 50th sounded fantastic in Sort Plus !
And to the OP, R sounds fantastic, BUT the GT3 Touring....... Imagine having paid out for that R and Porsche burst the market with that Beauty ? Also..... Something which is puzzling me, I have a 4S, Mine says in the options LSD ? How does that work on a 4WD system ? I always thought LSD's were for 2 WD cars,
ArchiesDad said:
I know what you mean re Pops and Bangs, My Dads 50th sounded fantastic in Sort Plus !
And to the OP, R sounds fantastic, BUT the GT3 Touring....... Imagine having paid out for that R and Porsche burst the market with that Beauty ? Also..... Something which is puzzling me, I have a 4S, Mine says in the options LSD ? How does that work on a 4WD system ? I always thought LSD's were for 2 WD cars,
LSD was standard on the 4wd models, and an option (often packaged with the sport-PASM suspension) on the 2wd cars.And to the OP, R sounds fantastic, BUT the GT3 Touring....... Imagine having paid out for that R and Porsche burst the market with that Beauty ? Also..... Something which is puzzling me, I have a 4S, Mine says in the options LSD ? How does that work on a 4WD system ? I always thought LSD's were for 2 WD cars,
Either way, the LSD is likely to be entirely ineffectual by now unless the plates have been replaced recently, together with modified ramps.
Just because you have 4wd, it doesn't necessarily mean your rear wheels will not turn at a differential speed to each other, either under power, or under engine braking.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Also... would a 997 GTS be worth an upgrade from my C4S? Or shall I hang out for the 991 R or GT3 Touring!!
I'd do the Touring personally, It's the same car, same engine and Box. RWS, Spoiler, Centre Locks, Just a bit less precious, I'd not feel quite as precious driving the Touring. And i'm not sure that the R warrants the extra ££££'s for some BP livery.I've an itch that needs tending to before i buy a subdued 500BHP 4.0 Litre 911 though. But going back to the original question, keep the 997.2, the GTS same variant is about another 30K ? maybe ? then the jump from the Manual 997 to the Manual 992 will be spectacular.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Also... would a 997 GTS be worth an upgrade from my C4S? Or shall I hang out for the 991 R or GT3 Touring!!
It's an upgrade on the margin. The 7GTS is great but not on a different planet. The R/Touring both are though. Better to save your powder and make the big step once cash allowsCheib said:
From the car you have and the way you describe it I would not go for a 991 Carrera S whether it’s a Gen 1 or 2. I think they feel like a GT rather than a Sports Car unless you really push them hard.
Your car has a nicer, gearbox and steering than any manual 991 this side of a 991.2 GT3. You’ve also got an LSD which is rare on 991’s apart from the T and GT3. It really depends on what floats your boat but for me personally If I was looking at a 991 I don’t think I’d think about it unless it was a 991.2 GTS. Yes it’s turbocharged but it’s got much better steering than a 991.1 and people that switched from 991.1 GTS to 991.2 GTS all thought it was a much better car.
I’ve got a manual 997 GTS and thought long and hard about selling it and buying my OPC’s manual 991.2 GTS demo which had PCCB’s and Buckets so a proper drivers spec. The big difference in the cars is the chassis on 991.2....felt a lot more sophisticated and could do with bad road surfaces better than my 997 GTS but it’s by no means a bad car on UK roads....as a standard car it feels just the right balance between being a firm sporty ride and compliant enough not to make you think about every pot hole.
The big difference physically between 991 and 997 is the size of the glass house....it’s wider at the wing mirrors so feels a lot bigger. In reality the width at the rear wheels isn’t that different.
HTH !
I went from a manual 997.2 C2S to a 991.2 Turbo which worked for me, but my usage is quite a bit different to the OP's, which influences the resulting opinion somewhat.Your car has a nicer, gearbox and steering than any manual 991 this side of a 991.2 GT3. You’ve also got an LSD which is rare on 991’s apart from the T and GT3. It really depends on what floats your boat but for me personally If I was looking at a 991 I don’t think I’d think about it unless it was a 991.2 GTS. Yes it’s turbocharged but it’s got much better steering than a 991.1 and people that switched from 991.1 GTS to 991.2 GTS all thought it was a much better car.
I’ve got a manual 997 GTS and thought long and hard about selling it and buying my OPC’s manual 991.2 GTS demo which had PCCB’s and Buckets so a proper drivers spec. The big difference in the cars is the chassis on 991.2....felt a lot more sophisticated and could do with bad road surfaces better than my 997 GTS but it’s by no means a bad car on UK roads....as a standard car it feels just the right balance between being a firm sporty ride and compliant enough not to make you think about every pot hole.
The big difference physically between 991 and 997 is the size of the glass house....it’s wider at the wing mirrors so feels a lot bigger. In reality the width at the rear wheels isn’t that different.
HTH !
I agree with a lot of what Cheib says but take slight issue that the 991.2 GTS is a much better car than the 991.1 GTS. The engine in the 991.1 GTS is an absolute peach (and the engine map/config for which should have been dropped into the GT4 in what was a missed opportunity by Porsche). I digress. The 7 speed manual gearbox in the 991 is good but not brilliant. I think the steering on the 991.2 is a vast improvement on the 991.1 and a match for a 997 (they are very different so personal preference very much in play). The steering feel on the 991.2 Turbo I think is really excellent. Possibly this is the thing that's surprised me most about the car as well as the character of the engine (which the internet would have you believe is lacking).
Key thing for me is that OP you said you're not looking to daily. In that case I would stick with the 997 over any 991. The 991s do the GT thing well and are great to daily, but there's something just right about the overall package of a 997 for thrills (although they can absolutely be used daily in all weathers and are perfect is size for UK roads and can fly a bit below the radar if that's your thing).
Cost to change to a 997 GTS would be prohibitive for the (small) overall improvements.
As an alternative, how about putting some money into a suspension upgrade and geo to your taste? That might keep your interest for longer before the GT3 Touring.
Happy hunting!
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