Porsche 997 Eporsch rebuild ?
Discussion
Hi all, just spent the last two hours reading through all the discussion on the different liners for Porsche 997s
Eporsch is my closest specialist and they have good reviews. I think they use steel liners.. I can’t seem to find any review to say they have had a issue with a Eporsch rebuild? I would really rather stay local.
Any input would be much appreciated
Eporsch is my closest specialist and they have good reviews. I think they use steel liners.. I can’t seem to find any review to say they have had a issue with a Eporsch rebuild? I would really rather stay local.
Any input would be much appreciated
BenjaminSargent1993 said:
The dealer did it. Finley and Gorham. It had 6 months warranty but I never got anywhere. I actually tried to return the car but he sold it to me and left for aus for 6 months. Left me completely stuffed. You couldn’t write it. I just got fobbed off continuously there’s nothing wrong it. 1L of oil with a tank of fuel pretty sure that’s not right!!
I have viewed a couple of their cars over the years. By the end of my second visit I concluded it would be less risky and less hassle to buy, unseen, any 911, at random, from a private seller, on eBay (even if they had no positive reviews)!gizlaroc said:
I went to view a 997 back in 2008, it was 3 years old with 30k miles on it and to say it was not what I would have expected is an understatement.
His website is shocking too. Try viewing it on Safari or Opera, can't even scroll to see the stock.
Just tried to look at his site on my Android phone and gave up.His website is shocking too. Try viewing it on Safari or Opera, can't even scroll to see the stock.
As I understand it you have 6 years to bring a small claim. However, if you spend £X000 to put it right with someone else you can't necessarily just claim that amount against the selling dealer. They have to be given the opportunity to put things right (not that you'd want him to have another go at it!!!). Unfortunately I think you need to forget any notion of him picking up any of the costs. Solicitors, I wouldn't waste my time (or more money ... save it for a rebuild) ... besides you can't sue him, he looks to have very little. As for knowing everyone, I think most would keep their distance professionallly.
I think you have two options: (1) get it fixed by a reputable indie (if you like the car otherwise); or (2) get rid, but be honest and tell the prospective purchaser it has an appetite for oil.
Hope you have more luck going forward.
I think you have two options: (1) get it fixed by a reputable indie (if you like the car otherwise); or (2) get rid, but be honest and tell the prospective purchaser it has an appetite for oil.
Hope you have more luck going forward.
Hartech is the way to go with rebuild, this guy is an expert in rebuilds that a lot of indies use him rather than undertake it themselves.
I spent six months hunting down a 997 rebuilt by these guys and have had it for 3 year and goes like a dream. Look at Hrtech feedback on here nothing to worry about with these guys.
I spent six months hunting down a 997 rebuilt by these guys and have had it for 3 year and goes like a dream. Look at Hrtech feedback on here nothing to worry about with these guys.
Hi Benjamin, I am sorry to hear that your engine has problems despite a rebuild and that you didn't like our response about the need to do the job properly.
i know that I can be accused of going on about our provisions to the market but without overdoing it can I just respectfully point out that we have invested a massive amount in our own research, tested designs, Inhouse machinery, training, staff, internal organisation etc to provide an excellent engine rebuild service that has consistently rebuilt far more engines than anyone else with a superb reputations for quality and customer care.
We continue to carry out new developments to help protect the engines anywhere that time reveals a new weakspot of which in the last few years the crankshaft big ends are typical and for example now provide the option of a superior big end bearing that has been developed between us and the top Manufacturer Worldwide that will help extend life.
Our liners are recognised as superior to iron liners (same as the GT3 and turbo versions that do not suffer problems which we adopted by Porsche for good technical reasons) and in many cases are not even more expensive and if something does go wrong (which is extremely rare) we honour our obligations.
We develop new products on the race track and they include a range of components to help preserve oil pressure and during a rebuild we include a host of small modifications that make a difference.
We also frequently read that some people think the many other businesses clamouring to get in on the engine rebuild market are just as good, that iron liners are just as good and that we are more expensive (when it turns out we actually are not) and on top of that we frequently receive engines rebuilt elsewhere that have failed again and find out why - usually because things we would have addressed have not been or the design is less robust and they have come to us next because the business concerned will not offer to help after taking their payment the fist time.
I have absolutely no problem if owners want to go elsewhere (it is their choice and their risk) and of course there must be other businesses that can do a good job (many of whom send their crankcases to us anyway) but can you imagine how irritating it is to have spent all this investment and time trying hard to be the best at what we do (and I think achieving that) only to find owners have gone elsewhere and the rebuild has failed and somehow try to turn the outcome into a criticism of us because we simply point out the blindingly obvious - that it is better to get the job done properly by the people who have the greatest skills, resources and experience to do it.
The evidence is clear that having it done right pays off and trying to find a cheaper alternative often doesn't - and while I am sorry to hear that you didn't like our response - I think it is unfair to drag us into the pain you are obviously suffering and somehow become blamed for it for telling the truth because if we had carried out the rebuild I am confident you would not be in this position.
I think we were just trying to make the point that having a car that had a failed rebuild elsewhere - you should by now appreciate that there is no cheap alternative.
I hope you manage to find a satisfactory outcome. Porsche cars are our livelyhood and we try to preserve their reputation by overcoming the tragedy of a failed engine by replacing it with a reliable outcome.
Our oversized engine conversions are being very well received by those that for a little more cost enjoy the superior performance.
It is very bad news all round when an enthusiast like you buys a Porsche that immediately lets them down and we are not unsympathetic at all - in fact the lengths we have gone to to find a reliable alternative are a demonstration of our commitment to try and compensate for that disaster somewhat by at least doing our best to avoid a repetition even though the root causes of the failures are nothing to do with us.
I am sorry that our frustration at hearing yet again that an owner has decided not to choose us for their rebuild (when we have invested so much in it) and that it has once again backfired - came over as unsympathetic.
All the very best of luck with it in the future.
Baz
i know that I can be accused of going on about our provisions to the market but without overdoing it can I just respectfully point out that we have invested a massive amount in our own research, tested designs, Inhouse machinery, training, staff, internal organisation etc to provide an excellent engine rebuild service that has consistently rebuilt far more engines than anyone else with a superb reputations for quality and customer care.
We continue to carry out new developments to help protect the engines anywhere that time reveals a new weakspot of which in the last few years the crankshaft big ends are typical and for example now provide the option of a superior big end bearing that has been developed between us and the top Manufacturer Worldwide that will help extend life.
Our liners are recognised as superior to iron liners (same as the GT3 and turbo versions that do not suffer problems which we adopted by Porsche for good technical reasons) and in many cases are not even more expensive and if something does go wrong (which is extremely rare) we honour our obligations.
We develop new products on the race track and they include a range of components to help preserve oil pressure and during a rebuild we include a host of small modifications that make a difference.
We also frequently read that some people think the many other businesses clamouring to get in on the engine rebuild market are just as good, that iron liners are just as good and that we are more expensive (when it turns out we actually are not) and on top of that we frequently receive engines rebuilt elsewhere that have failed again and find out why - usually because things we would have addressed have not been or the design is less robust and they have come to us next because the business concerned will not offer to help after taking their payment the fist time.
I have absolutely no problem if owners want to go elsewhere (it is their choice and their risk) and of course there must be other businesses that can do a good job (many of whom send their crankcases to us anyway) but can you imagine how irritating it is to have spent all this investment and time trying hard to be the best at what we do (and I think achieving that) only to find owners have gone elsewhere and the rebuild has failed and somehow try to turn the outcome into a criticism of us because we simply point out the blindingly obvious - that it is better to get the job done properly by the people who have the greatest skills, resources and experience to do it.
The evidence is clear that having it done right pays off and trying to find a cheaper alternative often doesn't - and while I am sorry to hear that you didn't like our response - I think it is unfair to drag us into the pain you are obviously suffering and somehow become blamed for it for telling the truth because if we had carried out the rebuild I am confident you would not be in this position.
I think we were just trying to make the point that having a car that had a failed rebuild elsewhere - you should by now appreciate that there is no cheap alternative.
I hope you manage to find a satisfactory outcome. Porsche cars are our livelyhood and we try to preserve their reputation by overcoming the tragedy of a failed engine by replacing it with a reliable outcome.
Our oversized engine conversions are being very well received by those that for a little more cost enjoy the superior performance.
It is very bad news all round when an enthusiast like you buys a Porsche that immediately lets them down and we are not unsympathetic at all - in fact the lengths we have gone to to find a reliable alternative are a demonstration of our commitment to try and compensate for that disaster somewhat by at least doing our best to avoid a repetition even though the root causes of the failures are nothing to do with us.
I am sorry that our frustration at hearing yet again that an owner has decided not to choose us for their rebuild (when we have invested so much in it) and that it has once again backfired - came over as unsympathetic.
All the very best of luck with it in the future.
Baz
.....or not bothered to reply? The bloke I bought mine from sent it to Hartech AFTER AN Other had rebuilt it (badly) . He described them as sympathetic to his cause. maybe they get a few under those circumstances???
I feel sorry for anyone whose had the misfortune to need a rebuild, especially if they've bought a rebuilt one in good faith, only to get shafted when they claim under warranty
I read up all I could when looking to buy a 997, and asked around a lot of specialists in the north-west before buying one with a Hartech rebuild. I could've saved money by either getting one with low miles and not rebuilt, or by getting one which had been rebuilt by others. That was my personal choice.
Caveat emptor I believe.
I feel sorry for anyone whose had the misfortune to need a rebuild, especially if they've bought a rebuilt one in good faith, only to get shafted when they claim under warranty
I read up all I could when looking to buy a 997, and asked around a lot of specialists in the north-west before buying one with a Hartech rebuild. I could've saved money by either getting one with low miles and not rebuilt, or by getting one which had been rebuilt by others. That was my personal choice.
Caveat emptor I believe.
There are unfortunately some issues that can fail too quickly for an inspection to predict - although if you look at an oil filter because you just changed the oil and found a few glittery gold specks in the old filter - you might realise (or have read that or asked around and been advised that) the engine is about to do a big end and put it up for sale? Crank failure is the worst case scenario for rebuild costs. There are also cheap options there of regrinding and fitting oversized shells although the case hardness is insufficiently deep for that to last as long as it should - which could also end up as a false economy.
Really sad when this happens to a new Porsche owner - very bad for him and not good for the trade either or the reputation of the marque.
I really can understand anyone caught out like this from looking for anyone to blame but what I am sorry - I just cannot make sense of - is the irony to find a rebuild done by one business clearly failed, that a business that has nothing to do with the failure and with a good reputation explains there is no cheap reliable solution and that they then somehow get critically dragged into the situation for telling the truth in good faith and with complete honesty - when if their advice had been followed in the first place the problem may not have occurred anyway - just seems unfair and I am not sure what else we should have said apart from to pretend there is a cheap and reliable way out - which may have been what created this increasingly common situation in the first place.
In view of that I do apologise for wasting a couple of minutes of anyone's valuable time reading my last response trying to be sympathetic and explain.
Baz
Really sad when this happens to a new Porsche owner - very bad for him and not good for the trade either or the reputation of the marque.
I really can understand anyone caught out like this from looking for anyone to blame but what I am sorry - I just cannot make sense of - is the irony to find a rebuild done by one business clearly failed, that a business that has nothing to do with the failure and with a good reputation explains there is no cheap reliable solution and that they then somehow get critically dragged into the situation for telling the truth in good faith and with complete honesty - when if their advice had been followed in the first place the problem may not have occurred anyway - just seems unfair and I am not sure what else we should have said apart from to pretend there is a cheap and reliable way out - which may have been what created this increasingly common situation in the first place.
In view of that I do apologise for wasting a couple of minutes of anyone's valuable time reading my last response trying to be sympathetic and explain.
Baz
Dude, I'm not sure if you are the op or not. Different names, but taking as if you are.
You need to get a grip. Hartech are not the bad boys here. They just told you if you needed a rebuild it would cost. No s
t Sherlock.
Save your angst for the people who have actually done a bad thing
Bert
You need to get a grip. Hartech are not the bad boys here. They just told you if you needed a rebuild it would cost. No s
t Sherlock.Save your angst for the people who have actually done a bad thing
Bert
To the OP, not sure if you've decided to get the rebuild done, and if so, who is going to do it, Eporsch, GTOne, Hartech etc ?
If you do go ahead with the rebuild, assuming you'd be prepared to do it, it would probably be of interest to others if you could post some feedback on here about the full rebuild process and how you get on with it, especially if it's one of the outfits using duc steel liners, the Hartech rebuilds have been pretty well documented over the years. One of our local Porsche indies in the Midlands, Cavendish Porsche, also use steel liners in their rebuilds.
Completely understand if you don't fancy doing it.
I actually gave up on the 997 Gen 1's when I was looking to change my car because of the whole saga around bore scoring, IMS issues & rebuilds etc, and because I didn't want to stretch into the Gen 2 997 budget area, I jumped the Porsche ship completely and bought a low mileage Merc. SL400 AMG sport; not quite the Porsche driving experience in the SL, but plenty good enough for normal road use and great cars.
Good luck with whatever choice you take.
If you do go ahead with the rebuild, assuming you'd be prepared to do it, it would probably be of interest to others if you could post some feedback on here about the full rebuild process and how you get on with it, especially if it's one of the outfits using duc steel liners, the Hartech rebuilds have been pretty well documented over the years. One of our local Porsche indies in the Midlands, Cavendish Porsche, also use steel liners in their rebuilds.
Completely understand if you don't fancy doing it.
I actually gave up on the 997 Gen 1's when I was looking to change my car because of the whole saga around bore scoring, IMS issues & rebuilds etc, and because I didn't want to stretch into the Gen 2 997 budget area, I jumped the Porsche ship completely and bought a low mileage Merc. SL400 AMG sport; not quite the Porsche driving experience in the SL, but plenty good enough for normal road use and great cars.
Good luck with whatever choice you take.
Edited by carcrazypop on Friday 17th July 09:17
Edited by carcrazypop on Friday 17th July 10:49
carcrazypop said:
To the OP, not sure if you've decided to get the rebuild done, and if so, who is going to do it, Eporsch, GTOne, Hartech etc ?
If you do go ahead with the rebuild, assuming you'd be prepared to do it, it would probably be of interest to others if you could post some feedback on here about the full rebuild process and how you get on with it, especially if it's one of the outfits using duc steel liners, the Hartech rebuilds have been pretty well documented over the years. One of our local Porsche indies in the Midlands, Cavendish Porsche, also use steel liners in their rebuilds.
Completely understand if you don't fancy doing it.
I actually gave up on the 997 Gen 1's when I was looking to change my car because of the whole saga around bore scoring, IMS issues & rebuilds etc, and because I didn't want to stretch into the Gen 2 997 budget area, I jumped the Porsche ship completely and bought a low mileage Merc. SL400 AMG sport; not quite the Porsche driving experience in the SL, but plenty good enough for normal road use.
Good luck with whatever choice you take.
I really haven’t I’m struggling with this decision a lot. I would like to stay locally though. If you do go ahead with the rebuild, assuming you'd be prepared to do it, it would probably be of interest to others if you could post some feedback on here about the full rebuild process and how you get on with it, especially if it's one of the outfits using duc steel liners, the Hartech rebuilds have been pretty well documented over the years. One of our local Porsche indies in the Midlands, Cavendish Porsche, also use steel liners in their rebuilds.
Completely understand if you don't fancy doing it.
I actually gave up on the 997 Gen 1's when I was looking to change my car because of the whole saga around bore scoring, IMS issues & rebuilds etc, and because I didn't want to stretch into the Gen 2 997 budget area, I jumped the Porsche ship completely and bought a low mileage Merc. SL400 AMG sport; not quite the Porsche driving experience in the SL, but plenty good enough for normal road use.
Good luck with whatever choice you take.
Edited by carcrazypop on Friday 17th July 09:17
I was only yesterday ringing about a 981s. But I love the 997 driving experience. I also think it’s starting to look better with age now and with the new ones looking so big etc.
It’s more than likely I will get it done this winter and Of course if people want I will upload the process! I’m so interested just to see exactly what the original “rebuild” looks like.
I too can’t afford the 40k for a nice gen 2
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