1970s Oil Crisis Killed Big-Engine'd Cars
Discussion
It looks like you were replying to some other thread and made a new one. As for your statement, in Europe the engines were always on the small side anyway yeah? Large engines is pretty much a USA thing and I wouldn't say that the oil crisis killed big engine'd cars but it did knock them around. To the tune of reducing horsepower by more than half in some cases.
rodericb said:
It looks like you were replying to some other thread and made a new one. As for your statement, in Europe the engines were always on the small side anyway yeah? Large engines is pretty much a USA thing and I wouldn't say that the oil crisis killed big engine'd cars but it did knock them around. To the tune of reducing horsepower by more than half in some cases.
I assume you've never heard of Jaguar then?rodericb said:
It looks like you were replying to some other thread and made a new one. As for your statement, in Europe the engines were always on the small side anyway yeah? Large engines is pretty much a USA thing and I wouldn't say that the oil crisis killed big engine'd cars but it did knock them around. To the tune of reducing horsepower by more than half in some cases.
Yup. The fuel crisis was a temporary event. Jag still sold the 5.2, Roller the 6.7, Rover the 3.5. Big Mercs, Ferrari’s and others remained before, during and after the event. But other much stronger factors were at play prior, such as the S6 being the more common solution over the V8 opposes to in the US. But only one thing has really had any impact. Taxation. From the 70s on the taxation against big displacement engines has grown steadily, pushing the tech for forced induction and leading into hybridisation. Whether it is European taxation on fuel or displacement or emissions, these are the factors that define how we generate torque versus say, in the US.
i have a 1973 302 Mustang, the engine needed a rebuild the first to go was the power draining dished pistons for lovely flat tops bringing the compression right back up, a very worthwhile upgrade.
The car, apart from a new edelbrock mild cam, feels so much better with plenty of get up & go. love it. Still have all the smog stuff, just disconnected.
The car, apart from a new edelbrock mild cam, feels so much better with plenty of get up & go. love it. Still have all the smog stuff, just disconnected.
Edited by souper on Monday 13th July 23:58
AS with any unexpected international crisis (Wuflu?) there was a general panic. Thirsty motors were dumped (a friend of mine had a Stag on order!) and everyone wondered if this was the future.
Then the oil producers started the pumps big time to take advantage of the sky high oil prices. World was awash with the stuff.
Then the oil producers started the pumps big time to take advantage of the sky high oil prices. World was awash with the stuff.
RMDB9 said:
Really? So before the price hike, a V12 or a MB 6.3 M100 engine were everyman's cars, like a mondeo?
Cars with engines of that size were never in 'everyman's car' in the UK in the 60s and 70s. A two litre engine was considered 'big' by the average family bloke, most of whom pottered about in BMC, Ford or Rootes rot boxes with up to 1600/1700 cc under their boot. When Japanese cars arrived in big numbers it was the smaller engined models that sold by the thousand and cars from German manufacturers such as Mercedes, who did market bigger engined saloons, were nowhere near as common a sight as they are today.
RMDB9 said:
Really? So before the price hike, a V12 or a MB 6.3 M100 engine were everyman's cars, like a mondeo?
No, but V8 engined Vauxhall's and Ford's etc were, and those models that were in the pipeline, got dropped dropped and other than a few prototypes and test cars never saw the light of day.The top of the range FE series Victor, the Ventora was designed to accomodate the Chevy smallblock so the old straight 6 could be replaced in this model with a V8, much as the sister Opel was. The fuel crisis put an end to that idea.
The Granada Mk1 was designed to accommodate the 302 V8, but again, the top of the range V8 model got canned with the fuel crisis along with a few other interesting Ford ideas.
Riley Blue said:
RMDB9 said:
Really? So before the price hike, a V12 or a MB 6.3 M100 engine were everyman's cars, like a mondeo?
Cars with engines of that size were never in 'everyman's car' in the UK in the 60s and 70s. A two litre engine was considered 'big' by the average family bloke, most of whom pottered about in BMC, Ford or Rootes rot boxes with up to 1600/1700 cc under their boot. When Japanese cars arrived in big numbers it was the smaller engined models that sold by the thousand and cars from German manufacturers such as Mercedes, who did market bigger engined saloons, were nowhere near as common a sight as they are today.
The big killer of the large displacement petrol has been the turbo diesel engine. Big displacement engines weren't just about power, they also offered lots of low down torque.
Diesels offered the same but were poor at the top engine. Then companies began to bolt turbos to them and the commonrail diesel was developed and suddenly you could get an engine which had the low down torque of a big capacity petrol and could do 50MPG.
Diesels offered the same but were poor at the top engine. Then companies began to bolt turbos to them and the commonrail diesel was developed and suddenly you could get an engine which had the low down torque of a big capacity petrol and could do 50MPG.
williamp said:
Yes it did in the US. All the great cars of the late 60s went. From a mustang mach 1 to the mustang 2, for example...
Not really. I think you are fudging things and either forgetting or ignoring a lot.The original Mustang was a small and lightweight car. Launched with a 6 pot engine. Which was its most popular engine. Over the evolution of this model it kept growing and getting bigger and heavier.
Smaller pony cars were becoming more popular. So Ford moved to reinstate the Mustang much nearer to its original concept with the Mustang II. And this wasn't until the 1974MY anyway. And the V8 was an option from the 1975MY too. This smaller style Mustang continued with the next variant the Foxbody and lasted all the way until 1993. The Mustang II also seemed to sell well, with over 1.1 million sales in a 4 year period.
However this was not the end of big engines. 1973 and 1974 saw the Trans Am 455SD models. And even by the mid/late 70's they were still displacing 6.6 litres.
The same era Camaro always had at least a 5.0 litre engine available or bigger. Something that remained true up until 2002. Then again with the 5th Generation from 2011.
bartelbe said:
The big killer of the large displacement petrol has been the turbo diesel engine. Big displacement engines weren't just about power, they also offered lots of low down torque.
Diesels offered the same but were poor at the top engine. Then companies began to bolt turbos to them and the commonrail diesel was developed and suddenly you could get an engine which had the low down torque of a big capacity petrol and could do 50MPG.
Indeed. The holy grail. Except it went horribly wrong and instead this fantastic leap forward just weaponised angry old men in their annuity spec German executive wagons who made the roads unusable. Diesels offered the same but were poor at the top engine. Then companies began to bolt turbos to them and the commonrail diesel was developed and suddenly you could get an engine which had the low down torque of a big capacity petrol and could do 50MPG.
RMDB9 said:
Thank you all for the insightful comments.
So, this "the oil crisis killed this wonderful big engine blabla" is largely Car Magazine bulls
t, as many other stereotypes (see other thread).
Well, it may have been the reason a specific engine ended production or one that was planned was shelved but it very much wasn’t the end of the big cc engine, arguably there are more around today than then. So, this "the oil crisis killed this wonderful big engine blabla" is largely Car Magazine bulls
t, as many other stereotypes (see other thread).RMDB9 said:
Thank you all for the insightful comments.
So, this "the oil crisis killed this wonderful big engine blabla" is largely Car Magazine bullst, as many other stereotypes (see other thread).
Pretty much. So, this "the oil crisis killed this wonderful big engine blabla" is largely Car Magazine bulls
t, as many other stereotypes (see other thread).In the UK bigger engined cars didn't start to become widely popular until after the 70's oil crisis.
Quiet so ; there is a lazy tendency in the classic press for sweeping statements about the past - the type of of person who bought a car, the reputation individual cars had in period and the composition of the car 'population ' in period . I have a good recollection of the car scene from the mid 60s and so many of the statements and comments made by journalists who weren't around then are wildly inaccurate and based on nothing more than watching some old telly on YouTube or Talking Pictures.
Martin Buckley is a serial offender in CSC but the disease seems catching,. with ever dafter comments about the sort of guy who bought a Victor and not a Cambridge and so on .
Big engined cars were very rare. Rolls made a big one alright , but like Aston Martins , they were very rare sights . Jags were commoner (in every sense) and we'd see the odd 4 litre Princess R too. The frequency of pieces about US/UK hybrids (in the original sense ) in the classic mags reflects an enduring love of the genre , but not its popularity in period . Even Jensens were rarer than hens teeth , I never even saw one TVR Griffith V8 ,let alone a Cobra , away from a race circuit or hillclimb , I never saw a new Bristol and i only ever saw one Gordon Keeble in period. You'll read all sorts of glowing guff about Merc 600s and 300 SEL 6.3 s , or even Facel Vegas - I'm not saying they didn't exist , but they may as well not have done ,because nobody you'd ever met had seen one.
US cars were very rare indeed - except outside my dad's surgery . A pink Mustang was a common sight among the tragic old Viva HAs and rusting Austin 1100s. It was owned by 'Spend Spend Spend ' Viv Nicholson , the pools winner .The only other US car I saw regularly was the gigantic, but actually very tylish Oldsmobile Toronado , as often as not driven by a sleazy looking gent on the wrong side of 40
Martin Buckley is a serial offender in CSC but the disease seems catching,. with ever dafter comments about the sort of guy who bought a Victor and not a Cambridge and so on .
Big engined cars were very rare. Rolls made a big one alright , but like Aston Martins , they were very rare sights . Jags were commoner (in every sense) and we'd see the odd 4 litre Princess R too. The frequency of pieces about US/UK hybrids (in the original sense ) in the classic mags reflects an enduring love of the genre , but not its popularity in period . Even Jensens were rarer than hens teeth , I never even saw one TVR Griffith V8 ,let alone a Cobra , away from a race circuit or hillclimb , I never saw a new Bristol and i only ever saw one Gordon Keeble in period. You'll read all sorts of glowing guff about Merc 600s and 300 SEL 6.3 s , or even Facel Vegas - I'm not saying they didn't exist , but they may as well not have done ,because nobody you'd ever met had seen one.
US cars were very rare indeed - except outside my dad's surgery . A pink Mustang was a common sight among the tragic old Viva HAs and rusting Austin 1100s. It was owned by 'Spend Spend Spend ' Viv Nicholson , the pools winner .The only other US car I saw regularly was the gigantic, but actually very tylish Oldsmobile Toronado , as often as not driven by a sleazy looking gent on the wrong side of 40
Edited by coppice on Wednesday 15th July 11:15
DonkeyApple said:
bartelbe said:
The big killer of the large displacement petrol has been the turbo diesel engine. Big displacement engines weren't just about power, they also offered lots of low down torque.
Diesels offered the same but were poor at the top engine. Then companies began to bolt turbos to them and the commonrail diesel was developed and suddenly you could get an engine which had the low down torque of a big capacity petrol and could do 50MPG.
Indeed. The holy grail. Except it went horribly wrong and instead this fantastic leap forward just weaponised angry old men in their annuity spec German executive wagons who made the roads unusable. Diesels offered the same but were poor at the top engine. Then companies began to bolt turbos to them and the commonrail diesel was developed and suddenly you could get an engine which had the low down torque of a big capacity petrol and could do 50MPG.
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