TUPE and resigning before joining the new company

[djones123]

Hi, I have been tuped over and my start date is in few weeks. Before the Tupe, i was told that my job and responsibilities would stay same but this is not a case anymore.

I was asked to sign a contract with the new employer saying i will be joining them on x date.

Now i have found out that i will not be part of a build team anymore instead i will work for a run team who can't work on large projects. Before i was doing both and now it feels my role will be changed.

I don't feel like working for the new employer anymore, it feels that i was kept in a dark and all the information was disclosed after i signed the contract.

Can i leave without hand in my 3 months notice ? I also have 25 holidays left.

I have heard that in the tupe situation, i can ask my current employer to terminate my contract before starting with the new employer. Not sure if this will have any impact on my future employer reference.

[Crasher242]

My only experience of TUPE was being a manager of a large-ish development team that were going across to a major IT services company as part of a service contract for a 3rd-party organization. The company we worked for didn't bid for the contract renewal, so we were packaged up as part of the 'service'.
Anyway, in the 12-months running up to contract end, a large number of the key team members (myself included) were put onto extended notice periods (binding us in as part of a loyalty agreement to see the contract out).
My job on "day 1" after TUPE was to take a register of "no-shows". Effectively, anyone who did not show up on day 1 was deemed not to have accepted the TUPE terms. Simple as that, and no need to give notice.

It would be worth you inquiring into the precise terms of the TUPE arrangement - presumably your employer had some form of works council, or staff representative team who carried out any discussions over the TUPE terms and how they fitted in with your current T's & C's?

[edc]

Try and detach yourself a bit. Have you got another job yet? If not why not just ride out the notice until you do at least have another job to go to.

[Macroni18]

Seems to be something dodgy here.
If TUPE you don't sign a new contract with your new employer. If that happens you are no longer on your TUPE T&Cs. The old contract just changes hands and your new employer holds it. Your t&cs will remain the same.
Unless you have been consulted with and informed throughout of the changes & you have agreed to it, it should be a redundancy situation where your current role is no longer required. Best to check further.

[Anonymous-poster]

Not Tuped over more Fooked over!

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Macroni18 said:

Seems to be something dodgy here.
If TUPE you don't sign a new contract with your new employer.

Eh? Are you sure about that?

[T5R+]

OP - did you actually read the contract?

[speedyman]

You are employed by your current employer until the day agreed of tupe transfer. You can hand in your resignation with your current employer anytime before that date. Your current terms and conditions are transfered via tupe, unless you agreed to a change.

[Macroni18]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Macroni18 said:

Seems to be something dodgy here.
If TUPE you don't sign a new contract with your new employer.

Eh? Are you sure about that?

Yes, I have worked on loads of TUPE transfers from schools under local authorities to academy trusts.
Staff who TUPE over come over on their original contracts. If they ever change their position for any reason including promotion etc., they have to sign a new contract with the new employer but this means they lose their TUPE rights/entitlements. They do not sign a new contract at time of TUPE transfer.

[djones123]

My main concern is with the 140 hr project restrictions.

I have been working on small project lasting 120 hrs and there isn't restriction in my current role which stops me working on projects requiring more than x amount of time.

Isn't this against the TUPE terms and conditions ? I was told my role will not be changed but now they have put me in the team who can't work on large projects ? I can understand that may be there is no demand from the business right now but there could be one in the future.

I would be happy with the new change as long as i work on bigger projects when demand is there.

The new contract i have signed basically says i am happy with the whole TUPE consultation process and outlines salary and other perks.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Macroni18 said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Macroni18 said:

Seems to be something dodgy here.
If TUPE you don't sign a new contract with your new employer.

Eh? Are you sure about that?

Yes, I have worked on loads of TUPE transfers from schools under local authorities to academy trusts.
Staff who TUPE over come over on their original contracts. If they ever change their position for any reason including promotion etc., they have to sign a new contract with the new employer but this means they lose their TUPE rights/entitlements. They do not sign a new contract at time of TUPE transfer.

Ah. Might be different in the non commercial world. Certainly in business you’d expect to get a contract in the name of your new employer.

[Countdown]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Macroni18 said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Macroni18 said:

Seems to be something dodgy here.
If TUPE you don't sign a new contract with your new employer.

Eh? Are you sure about that?

Yes, I have worked on loads of TUPE transfers from schools under local authorities to academy trusts.
Staff who TUPE over come over on their original contracts. If they ever change their position for any reason including promotion etc., they have to sign a new contract with the new employer but this means they lose their TUPE rights/entitlements. They do not sign a new contract at time of TUPE transfer.

Ah. Might be different in the non commercial world. Certainly in business you’d expect to get a contract in the name of your new employer.

I think the technical term is that the contract novates. Its the same contract but with a different employer..You don't need anything from your new Employer but there's nothing to stop them issuing you with one.

[djones123]

Countdown said:

I think the technical term is that the contract novates. Its the same contract but with a different employer..You don't need anything from your new Employer but there's nothing to stop them issuing you with one.

I think they just want to make sure i am going to join them. I don't know if i will be breaching law if i don't join them now.

Edited by djones123 on Friday 17th July 10:13

[Countdown]

djones123 said:

Can i leave without hand in my 3 months notice ? I also have 25 holidays left.

I have heard that in the tupe situation, i can ask my current employer to terminate my contract before starting with the new employer. Not sure if this will have any impact on my future employer reference.

If you leave without serving the full notice period then i think they can sue you for any losses they've incurred. In practice I doubt they would bother but there's always the risk. However if you've got 5 weeks paid leave left they might play funny buggers and decide not to pay you . As you also mention they might be vindictive if you ask them to provide a reference. Although they can't give a factually incorrect reference sometimes they can "damn" with faint praise.

i think the best approach would be to ask your manager if you can leave immediately. No employer wants somebody working for them who wants to leave.

[T5R+]

djones123 said:

The new contract i have signed basically says i am happy with the whole TUPE consultation process and outlines salary and other perks.

So essentially, you have signed up after reading/agreeing with the contract and now the role is materially or significantly different?

[djones123]

T5R+ said:

So essentially, you have signed up after reading/agreeing with the contract and now the role is materially or significantly different?

Yes. (I signed the contract based on the consultation i had)

During the consultation process i asked if my role is going to be changed and the answer was No.

Basically i have been restricted to work on small projects.

Edited by djones123 on Friday 17th July 13:04

Edited by djones123 on Friday 17th July 13:24

[T5R+]

Generally, would also have an accompanying Job Description. Whilst a JD cannot cover ever possibility ........if big projects were a significant part of the previous role and the new role specifically precludes you from such (unlikely) ...............then you MAY have a "case"...........would ask why did not know this important fact prior to signing up.

It hinges upon how different is the new role and why this was not made clear.

May sound harsh but on first read it appears as if the role is not significantly different.

You need to speak with your representative and HR in order to clarify your position given this "significant finding" between belief and reality. Some employers are reasonable and will accommodate, as long as consistent policy for all in place.

[Sy1441]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Eh? Are you sure about that?

Yep, I've TUPE'd people across into my business and the whole reason for TUPE is that their contract is protected and remains the same.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Sy1441 said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Eh? Are you sure about that?

Yep, I've TUPE'd people across into my business and the whole reason for TUPE is that their contract is protected and remains the same.

True. But a new employer might add stuff, and doubtless other stuff in the (original) contract becomes obsolete.

(I'm talking finer details)

Plus, you really want an up to date document, it's just good housekeeping for both parties. (I've been the TUPE new employer several times)

[Sy1441]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

True. But a new employer might add stuff, and doubtless other stuff in the (original) contract becomes obsolete.

(I'm talking finer details)

Plus, you really want an up to date document, it's just good housekeeping for both parties. (I've been the TUPE new employer several times)

That's not legally possible unless the person agrees to it.

You can change do what you like with anything that's non-contractual but you can't legally change any of the contractual terms without agreement or entering formal consultation.

I'd be getting a new HR company on retainer if I was you.