F1-a Sport or Politics ?
Discussion
I watch and follow F1 as a sport but do not want an "influencer" who is a driver telling me how I should look at the world.
I consider that I'm reasonably intelligent so I form my opinions on many matters and sometimes I change my opinions by reading articles written by learned authors who are recognised as being authoritative on their chosen subject.
BLM and its organisers is a subject that does not have absolute transparency and until it does it should be supported with hesitation.
Racism is an abhorrent part of a civilised society and should not be tolerated by governing bodies of countries or associations. In motorsports the FIA should not be seen to be supporting countries that see one element of its population as inferior to another. Therefore, though it may initially hurt the motor racing calendars, FIA supported races should not take place in countries where racism, slavery or lack of freedom of speech is practiced.
As has been shown over the last few weeks and in the coming months a country can host more than one Grand Prix so it's up to the FIA to look after the political aspect and provide the fans with purely sport.
I consider that I'm reasonably intelligent so I form my opinions on many matters and sometimes I change my opinions by reading articles written by learned authors who are recognised as being authoritative on their chosen subject.
BLM and its organisers is a subject that does not have absolute transparency and until it does it should be supported with hesitation.
Racism is an abhorrent part of a civilised society and should not be tolerated by governing bodies of countries or associations. In motorsports the FIA should not be seen to be supporting countries that see one element of its population as inferior to another. Therefore, though it may initially hurt the motor racing calendars, FIA supported races should not take place in countries where racism, slavery or lack of freedom of speech is practiced.
As has been shown over the last few weeks and in the coming months a country can host more than one Grand Prix so it's up to the FIA to look after the political aspect and provide the fans with purely sport.
Purely the politics in the sport.
I haven't always been a Lewis fan despite his ability as I thought Ron Dennis gave him many advantages over other upcoming drivers that Lewis doesn't always remember but I now often admire some of his drives that really are perfection. I also think if I had to choose the characteristics of a Record Breaking Driver, as an example to young drivers, that Lewis fits that perfectly.
I had hoped years ago that Willy T Ribbs was going to break into F1 but that never happened.
F1 is an international sport and should have an international cast.
I haven't always been a Lewis fan despite his ability as I thought Ron Dennis gave him many advantages over other upcoming drivers that Lewis doesn't always remember but I now often admire some of his drives that really are perfection. I also think if I had to choose the characteristics of a Record Breaking Driver, as an example to young drivers, that Lewis fits that perfectly.
I had hoped years ago that Willy T Ribbs was going to break into F1 but that never happened.
F1 is an international sport and should have an international cast.
HustleRussell said:
Tazar said:
I watch and follow F1 as a sport but do not want an "influencer" who is a driver telling me how I should look at the world.
So is your problem with 'Politics', as you call it, in the sport, or with the individual Lewis Hamilton?His preaching from the high ground is very much in danger of damaging the causes he’s trying to promote.
Apparently, in Lewis’s world, if you don’t agree or are not quick enough to jump to attention, you should be called out or ostracised. That doesn’t sit well with me and I guess many others.
Exige77 said:
I think Lewis is the “most vocal” of the current F1 crowd pushing his own views on the environment, Veganism and most recently on racism.
His preaching from the high ground is very much in danger of damaging the causes he’s trying to promote.
Apparently, in Lewis’s world, if you don’t agree or are not quick enough to jump to attention, you should be called out or ostracised. That doesn’t sit well with me and I guess many others.
Exactly. I'm afraid that much as I respect him as a driver, I'm not reacting well to his pontificating on political matters. He apparently (according to Autosport https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150749/hamilton-... ) has called Mario Andretti out of touch and disrespectful when Mario commented that he doesn't like sport and politics becoming intertwined.His preaching from the high ground is very much in danger of damaging the causes he’s trying to promote.
Apparently, in Lewis’s world, if you don’t agree or are not quick enough to jump to attention, you should be called out or ostracised. That doesn’t sit well with me and I guess many others.
My thought was that Lewis was being disrespectful to Andretti for having an alternative stance.
Tazar said:
Channel 4's presenter brought up the subject in the highlights programme. Again I don't want some tv presenter in a sports programme preaching about political matters.
Not sure how you can pidgeonhole racism as politics. Additionally most popular sports have always had such elements in them from the Olympics to football to cricket to tennis. Hamilton is also talking about his own sport - hard for him to do that without talking about F1. Further, he's well placed to talk about it given is experience.
Tazar said:
I watch and follow F1 as a sport but do not want an "influencer" who is a driver telling me how I should look at the world.
I consider that I'm reasonably intelligent so I form my opinions on many matters and sometimes I change my opinions by reading articles written by learned authors who are recognised as being authoritative on their chosen subject.
BLM and its organisers is a subject that does not have absolute transparency and until it does it should be supported with hesitation.
Racism is an abhorrent part of a civilised society and should not be tolerated by governing bodies of countries or associations. In motorsports the FIA should not be seen to be supporting countries that see one element of its population as inferior to another. Therefore, though it may initially hurt the motor racing calendars, FIA supported races should not take place in countries where racism, slavery or lack of freedom of speech is practiced.
As has been shown over the last few weeks and in the coming months a country can host more than one Grand Prix so it's up to the FIA to look after the political aspect and provide the fans with purely sport.
I really don't know where to start with this, but here goesI consider that I'm reasonably intelligent so I form my opinions on many matters and sometimes I change my opinions by reading articles written by learned authors who are recognised as being authoritative on their chosen subject.
BLM and its organisers is a subject that does not have absolute transparency and until it does it should be supported with hesitation.
Racism is an abhorrent part of a civilised society and should not be tolerated by governing bodies of countries or associations. In motorsports the FIA should not be seen to be supporting countries that see one element of its population as inferior to another. Therefore, though it may initially hurt the motor racing calendars, FIA supported races should not take place in countries where racism, slavery or lack of freedom of speech is practiced.
As has been shown over the last few weeks and in the coming months a country can host more than one Grand Prix so it's up to the FIA to look after the political aspect and provide the fans with purely sport.
1) A driver isn't TELLING you how to look at the world, he is ASKING you to open your eyes and look at the world. If you check Hamiltons own statements he says as much and thanks those who are starting to educate themselves on the matter
2) Forget BLM as an organisation, its one group of people. I think people get too hung up on Black Lives Matter meaning the organisation rather than Black Lives Matter.....which is just a statement that is saying black peoples lives matter and should be equal. Racism and the fight against racism was around long before BLM and will be around long after.
3) If you want the FIA to stop supporting countries which see one element of its population as inferior to another then cancel the entire championship. Racism, discrimination, bigotry isn't restricted to less developed parts of the world, its on our doorstep and rife in the UK, Europe and America
4) As the previous poster said....what's political about racism? why is it political to ask for equality? its got nothing to do with politics, its called human decency.
5) If you don't like politics, then you're looking at the wrong sport. F1 has always been one of the most political sports in the world whether its politics between teams, races in certain countries, sponsors, money, drivers etc etc.....or is this just the 'wrong type' of politics for you?
6) I didn't see any of you complaining when Trump sponsored a NASCAR, political figures presented trophies on the podium, Military sponsorship, Hondas Earth Dream, the hybrid movement etc....you know, actual politics.
7) I don't see any of you complaining about the 'We Race As One' campaign......you know, the actual FIA campaign, so I ask myself, is it actual racism you have a problem with.....or just Hamilton...
It always astonishes me how people try to wrap up fighting discrimination under the guise of 'politics' when in its simplest form, people are just asking others to be kind to one another. People complain about sports stars and celebrities highlighting racism....they've tried for decades to do it peacefully and without 'shoving it down your throat'....and haven't got very far...what do you suggest they do instead?
If you feel uncomfortable with someone 'pushing a political agenda' in your face, for a few minutes for one day every couple of weeks.....how do you think it feels to those actually facing discrimination? You can just change the channel, switch off....people who face racism or discrimination of any kind don't have that luxury.
Edited by WickerBill on Tuesday 21st July 14:37
Struggle to sympathise with the criticism to be honest.
If you don't like Hamilton's opinions on the environment etc, don't read his social media or what he puts out in the press.
If you are so offended by drivers taking a knee for less than 30 seconds before the national anthem, tune in after the national anthem.
You can hardly argue that it's getting in the way of the sport.
If you don't like Hamilton's opinions on the environment etc, don't read his social media or what he puts out in the press.
If you are so offended by drivers taking a knee for less than 30 seconds before the national anthem, tune in after the national anthem.
You can hardly argue that it's getting in the way of the sport.
generally people don't like being prodded into looking at their own behavior or ignorance on contentious issues (racism, environmentalism, veganism) because it's uncomfortable ...& generally they become very very defensive about it
i know this, because i've been guilty of ignorance on all three issues in the past ...& generally became very very defensive about it
i know this, because i've been guilty of ignorance on all three issues in the past ...& generally became very very defensive about it
WickerBill said:
I really don't know where to start with this, but here goes
1) A driver isn't TELLING you how to look at the world, he is ASKING you to open your eyes and look at the world. If you check Hamiltons own statements he says as much and thanks those who are starting to educate themselves on the matter
2) Forget BLM as an organisation, its one group of people. I think people get too hung up on Black Lives Matter meaning the organisation rather than Black Lives Matter.....which is just a statement that is saying black peoples lives matter and should be equal. Racism and the fight against racism was around long before BLM and will be around long after.
3) If you want the FIA to stop supporting countries which see one element of its population as inferior to another then cancel the entire championship. Racism, discrimination, bigotry isn't restricted to less developed parts of the world, its on our doorstep and rife in the UK, Europe and America
4) As the previous poster said....what's political about racism? why is it political to ask for equality? its got nothing to do with politics, its called human decency.
5) If you don't like politics, then you're looking at the wrong sport. F1 has always been one of the most political sports in the world whether its politics between teams, races in certain countries, sponsors, money, drivers etc etc.....or is this just the 'wrong type' of politics for you?
6) I didn't see any of you complaining when Trump sponsored a NASCAR, political figures presented trophies on the podium, Military sponsorship, Hondas Earth Dream, the hybrid movement etc....you know, actual politics.
7) I don't see any of you complaining about the 'We Race As One' campaign......you know, the actual FIA campaign, so I ask myself, is it actual racism you have a problem with.....or just Hamilton...
It always astonishes me how people try to wrap up fighting discrimination under the guise of 'politics' when in its simplest form, people are just asking others to be kind to one another. People complain about sports stars and celebrities highlighting racism....they've tried for decades to do it peacefully and without 'shoving it down your throat'....and haven't got very far...what do you suggest they do instead?
Agree with a lot of this. Lewis can say and do what he likes. His employer, Mercedes F1 allows him the freedom to do this and in fact been actively taking on board some of his activism. 1) A driver isn't TELLING you how to look at the world, he is ASKING you to open your eyes and look at the world. If you check Hamiltons own statements he says as much and thanks those who are starting to educate themselves on the matter
2) Forget BLM as an organisation, its one group of people. I think people get too hung up on Black Lives Matter meaning the organisation rather than Black Lives Matter.....which is just a statement that is saying black peoples lives matter and should be equal. Racism and the fight against racism was around long before BLM and will be around long after.
3) If you want the FIA to stop supporting countries which see one element of its population as inferior to another then cancel the entire championship. Racism, discrimination, bigotry isn't restricted to less developed parts of the world, its on our doorstep and rife in the UK, Europe and America
4) As the previous poster said....what's political about racism? why is it political to ask for equality? its got nothing to do with politics, its called human decency.
5) If you don't like politics, then you're looking at the wrong sport. F1 has always been one of the most political sports in the world whether its politics between teams, races in certain countries, sponsors, money, drivers etc etc.....or is this just the 'wrong type' of politics for you?
6) I didn't see any of you complaining when Trump sponsored a NASCAR, political figures presented trophies on the podium, Military sponsorship, Hondas Earth Dream, the hybrid movement etc....you know, actual politics.
7) I don't see any of you complaining about the 'We Race As One' campaign......you know, the actual FIA campaign, so I ask myself, is it actual racism you have a problem with.....or just Hamilton...
It always astonishes me how people try to wrap up fighting discrimination under the guise of 'politics' when in its simplest form, people are just asking others to be kind to one another. People complain about sports stars and celebrities highlighting racism....they've tried for decades to do it peacefully and without 'shoving it down your throat'....and haven't got very far...what do you suggest they do instead?
In addition, he has earned the right to be more explicit in calling attention to issues he feels that deserve our attention. As a 6x WDC and a veteran of the sport, he deserves to be given the platform to do so, and IMO he has used it wisely.
It is an interesting sequence of posts above, all of which raise valid points. From my perspective, and to answer the original question. F1 is a sport. Otherwise it wouldn't be called motor SPORT.
However F1 and many other top line professional sports do by their very nature become big business too. This is inevitable and F1 is arguably one of the best examples of that due to the involvement of many multinational companies as well as government state funding too. I often see F1 as a business first, and the sport as its saleable product second.
In terms of politics... I would prefer to watch on Sunday and enjoy the racing for what it is without any external agenda being shown to me purely because these are individuals with a platform. I use the words external agenda because motorsport has always been in my view a meritocracy anyway so I do not believe racism to be a motorsport centric issue. That is not to say that I do not agree with the merits of raising awareness when appropriate, but I watch F1 to see cars racing. Lets also not forget these F1 drivers are at work... I wouldn't last too long if I starting using my workplace to push an agenda (whether valid or not) so I struggle to see how it is any more appropriate at a Grand Prix event than it is at another place of work.
For myself (and no doubt many other fans), sitting down on a Sunday afternoon to watch the spectacle and glamour of F1 is to an extent my escapism from the realities of every day life which I both look forward to and enjoy. I have no issue with awareness being raised when appropriate, but for me it is taking away from the purity of the sport. If a driver or a team wishes to post on twitter about a particular campaign or a team opts to paint their car a different colour then that's great and I fully support that but I think having drivers standing awkwardly, some kneeling and some not (many due to their own national traditions) just gives an unintended message of driver division to the watching world and opens some to unfair criticism. The 'we race as one' motto used by the FIA is good and should actually be sole focal point of togetherness and solidarity from the drivers where everyone is united and nobody ostracised because of what they did or didn't do on the grid.
However F1 and many other top line professional sports do by their very nature become big business too. This is inevitable and F1 is arguably one of the best examples of that due to the involvement of many multinational companies as well as government state funding too. I often see F1 as a business first, and the sport as its saleable product second.
In terms of politics... I would prefer to watch on Sunday and enjoy the racing for what it is without any external agenda being shown to me purely because these are individuals with a platform. I use the words external agenda because motorsport has always been in my view a meritocracy anyway so I do not believe racism to be a motorsport centric issue. That is not to say that I do not agree with the merits of raising awareness when appropriate, but I watch F1 to see cars racing. Lets also not forget these F1 drivers are at work... I wouldn't last too long if I starting using my workplace to push an agenda (whether valid or not) so I struggle to see how it is any more appropriate at a Grand Prix event than it is at another place of work.
For myself (and no doubt many other fans), sitting down on a Sunday afternoon to watch the spectacle and glamour of F1 is to an extent my escapism from the realities of every day life which I both look forward to and enjoy. I have no issue with awareness being raised when appropriate, but for me it is taking away from the purity of the sport. If a driver or a team wishes to post on twitter about a particular campaign or a team opts to paint their car a different colour then that's great and I fully support that but I think having drivers standing awkwardly, some kneeling and some not (many due to their own national traditions) just gives an unintended message of driver division to the watching world and opens some to unfair criticism. The 'we race as one' motto used by the FIA is good and should actually be sole focal point of togetherness and solidarity from the drivers where everyone is united and nobody ostracised because of what they did or didn't do on the grid.
TwentyFive said:
I have no issue with awareness being raised when appropriate
Your post is very reasonable and I'm sure reflects many decent people's views on the matter.My counterpoint to that particular statement is that the issue being raised is that for those on the wrong end of racism, it is largely a constant and unavoidable issue that they do not have the luxury to ignore for a time when it suits them.
As much as I understand and empathise with the sentiment of what you're saying, I think that this is an instance whereby those of us who aren't affected by the issue should accept that although it doesn't appear to be an issue to us, those affected by it may know better, and should be listened to, even if it doesn't reflect our own limited experiences and even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.
Anyone would think that, as viewers, we have to pull somersaults before the race starts or that there's a 30 minute video of MLK that has to be watched before the formation lap.
Some cars have been painted black, some drivers are taking the knee for 30 seconds before the anthems, they're all wearing shirts and have a small slogan on each car.
It hardly interferes with the spectacle does it?
Has Formula One as a sport changed due to these actions? Of course not. If you don't agree with what they're doing, just ignore the idea - the sport itself will still be the same as it was 6 months ago.
Some cars have been painted black, some drivers are taking the knee for 30 seconds before the anthems, they're all wearing shirts and have a small slogan on each car.
It hardly interferes with the spectacle does it?
Has Formula One as a sport changed due to these actions? Of course not. If you don't agree with what they're doing, just ignore the idea - the sport itself will still be the same as it was 6 months ago.
SturdyHSV said:
My counterpoint to that particular statement is that the issue being raised is that for those on the wrong end of racism, it is largely a constant and unavoidable issue that they do not have the luxury to ignore for a time when it suits them.
As much as I understand and empathise with the sentiment of what you're saying, I think that this is an instance whereby those of us who aren't affected by the issue should accept that although it doesn't appear to be an issue to us, those affected by it may know better, and should be listened to, even if it doesn't reflect our own limited experiences and even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.
I totally agree with you Sturdy and it is very clear that more can and needs to be done in all walks of life. As much as I understand and empathise with the sentiment of what you're saying, I think that this is an instance whereby those of us who aren't affected by the issue should accept that although it doesn't appear to be an issue to us, those affected by it may know better, and should be listened to, even if it doesn't reflect our own limited experiences and even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.
However to add a little context around my 'when appropriate' point, consider that I (as do many others) pay a subscription to watch Formula One. I am buying a specific product. That product is the F1 channel. It's not anything else. I did not expect to be paying money to watch politically aimed messages on a subscription basis irrespective of the merit of the cause when that is not what I have purchased. It is just my opinion of course, but felt the need to clarify. I expect nothing more and nothing less than F1 dedicated coverage in return for my money each month and any type of global issue that is not entirely F1 centric falls outside of that remit of relevant broadcasting in my view. On any other platform I would completely support it.
For me he is just using his position to raise awareness and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The guy suffered racism in his first season in F1 with spanish fans at Barcelona testing painting their faces black and holding a banner saying 'Hamiltons family', it's amazing that he's not made a stand (or a knee) before now.
The OP suggested Hamilton had advantages over other drivers due to his Mclaren contacts. He won in Karts at British and international level, won the British F Renault championship, Euro F3 championship & the GP2 championship (in his first season). He got to F1 on talent and an impressive track record.
People moan about corporate robots in F1 and when a driver expresses an opinion for the good, suddenly it's all 'woke bs'. Get real
The OP suggested Hamilton had advantages over other drivers due to his Mclaren contacts. He won in Karts at British and international level, won the British F Renault championship, Euro F3 championship & the GP2 championship (in his first season). He got to F1 on talent and an impressive track record.
People moan about corporate robots in F1 and when a driver expresses an opinion for the good, suddenly it's all 'woke bs'. Get real
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