Wifi - ubiquiti a good solution?
Wifi - ubiquiti a good solution?
Author
Discussion

bmwmike

Original Poster:

8,771 posts

138 months

Tuesday 21st July 2020
quotequote all
Hi all

Got a large 1930's solid wall bungalow and wifi coverage issues.

We have 300mb BT coming in (fttp) and the coverage is poor, also doesnt let me set my own DNS, and i want to use a pihole.

Im thinking of getting 2 ubiquiti "lite" one for each end of the bungalow. and / or maybe a couple of UAP-AC-IW which i know is 48v PoE.

Am i right in thinking both of these Lite discs have to connect back to a switch? (already have a couple of gigabit switches).

Or do they connect to each other as a daisy chain, and one then connects to the BT router?

Can i get rid of the BT router completely, and plug the ubiquiti stuff direct into the ONT?

Many thanks
Mike

Edited by bmwmike on Tuesday 21st July 21:44

Murph7355

42,017 posts

286 months

Tuesday 21st July 2020
quotequote all
The access points are ideally cabled back to the central switch (double ideally a PoE switch to power as well as send data to them - otherwise you have to use the injectors which is messier at the access point end).

You can use wireless uplinks to connect access points but it's not ideal (halves your speed).

Depending on layout of the house and walls etc you may end up needing more than two access points. You can use the disc shaped ones in combination with the in walls if you need to.

This kit doesn't replace the router. So you'll need to retain that - are you sure the BT one won't let you set your own DNS?

Paper Lawyer

251 posts

259 months

Tuesday 21st July 2020
quotequote all
In my experience the ceiling mounted units are far more effective than the IW unit (which is more designed for a single room). I have the UAP-AC-Pro discs throughout my house (and the separate garage!) and an IW in my lounge - the IW has much more limited range.

I have a USG so I could ditch my plusnet router (and a cloud key to manage it all). Oh, and a total of 4 unifi switches....it has become rather expensive but I do like the stats on the cloudkey...

Oh, one last thing, check which units are announced as end of life - I recall that the IW-Pro was one of the product line which will no longer be supported in a number of months (something I read on Rediit). I would pay for the extra speed of the UAP-AC-Pro over the LIte, particularly if there is a risk that the Lite will be EOL sooner (I am not aware that it will be but worth checking).

bmwmike

Original Poster:

8,771 posts

138 months

Tuesday 21st July 2020
quotequote all
ewww end of life? i hadnt considered that. I will look into it, thanks. I would have expected, perhaps naively, that an entegrated "eco system" or whatever like this would have some sort of long term support.

I just want a wifi that works and can extend over time and ideally ditch the BT junk (apart from the Fibre point obvs). Am i on the right track with ubiquiti gear?

Want
- security, including set my own DNS, DMZ, and vlans for crap/risky devices.
- will connect a NAS so needs to be fast.
- needs to be fast everywhere in the bungalow and not have to drop/reconnect.
- ideally support VPN for mobile devices when in internet cafs etc.
- run pihole to drop ads/trackers
- kids content and ability to drop or set limits on individual devices (e.g. child not coming down for dinner, turn off their internet to ipad for that device).

is this all doable with Ubiquiti? id have thought so, i could cobble it together with dd-wrt etc but im getting too old for all that, not enough time.

thanks

Murph7355

42,017 posts

286 months

Tuesday 21st July 2020
quotequote all
Paper Lawyer said:
...
I have a USG so I could ditch my plusnet router ...
Does the USG replace the need for a fibre/DSL router? I thought it was a firewall/security device...

Paper Lawyer

251 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
The USG replaced my WiFi router but I still have the open reach modem.

As for the question re use cases, yes it does all of that. I have VLANs for IoT and cctv cameras, pi-hole on a Raspberry pi which the USG routes DNS queries to and it has been rock solid stable.

Getting maximum WiFi throughput can mean adjusting the signal strength on individual access points if you have a number of access points that potentially overlap in terms of WiFi coverage.

End of life happens to all kit but the reddut post was referring to just a handful of old kit (the N WiFi rated old access points) but I recall some surprise that one of the IW models was in the list.

Bear in mind unifi have just launched/have in beta the WiFi 6 access points which would be a good future proofing option, if you can wait.

Paper Lawyer

251 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
Looking again at your list of requirements, he only item I have not tried is the control of WiFi access for individual devices (other than a straight block of Internet access via MAC address for a WiFi enabled camera (all the others are hard wired and on the separate VLAN). Which isn't to say it can't be done, I have simply not explored it.

anxious_ant

2,626 posts

109 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
I'm guessing you are with BT for internet? Worth having a look at their Complete WiFi package. A bit expensive but well worth the money. You also get 2 mesh discs "free" if coverage with 1 disc isn't enough.

I've setup my home office in my detached garage which is about 8m away from my house and the WiFi coverage is brilliiant in there. Just have to be a bit strategic in how you place your discs.

robbieduncan

1,993 posts

266 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
Paper Lawyer said:
The USG replaced my WiFi router but I still have the open reach modem.

As for the question re use cases, yes it does all of that. I have VLANs for IoT and cctv cameras, pi-hole on a Raspberry pi which the USG routes DNS queries to and it has been rock solid stable.

Getting maximum WiFi throughput can mean adjusting the signal strength on individual access points if you have a number of access points that potentially overlap in terms of WiFi coverage.

End of life happens to all kit but the reddut post was referring to just a handful of old kit (the N WiFi rated old access points) but I recall some surprise that one of the IW models was in the list.

Bear in mind unifi have just launched/have in beta the WiFi 6 access points which would be a good future proofing option, if you can wait.
There were older IW APs that were WiFi-N iirc. The new IW-AC units should be ok for a while yet I'd have thought.

rxe

6,700 posts

133 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
bmwmike said:
ewww end of life? i hadnt considered that. I will look into it, thanks. I would have expected, perhaps naively, that an entegrated "eco system" or whatever like this would have some sort of long term support.

I just want a wifi that works and can extend over time and ideally ditch the BT junk (apart from the Fibre point obvs). Am i on the right track with ubiquiti gear?


- kids content and ability to drop or set limits on individual devices (e.g. child not coming down for dinner, turn off their internet to ipad for that device).

s
That is the best feature. Kids on the PS4 wanting to finish something. Dinner is called. No kids. Hmmm, right click on PS4 on the app "awwwww dad I really hate you etc". Can be done from anywhere in the world. The kids thought they'd been really smart and used a Cat5 cable rather than Wifi. Unfortunately for them, the switch is Unifi as well and I can remote disable ports on it.

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

267 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
Ubiquiti is by far the best solution for this sort of thing. Don't be tempted to try meshing. Cable as much as you can and use the UniFi APs where you can't.

bmwmike

Original Poster:

8,771 posts

138 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
Thanks All

Ubiquiti it is.

Only thing im not sure of is what do i need, to be able to get rid of the BT home hub completely, and plug directly into the incoming fibre point ethernet socket? Thats just a switch, i think? I could just go and try... but im being a bit lazy wink

Edit I see Paper Lawyer did confirm that, cool. So its:

ONT -> USG ---> generic gigabit switch -> wired devices and AP's

thanks


Edited by bmwmike on Wednesday 22 July 11:49

robbieduncan

1,993 posts

266 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
bmwmike said:
Thanks All

Ubiquiti it is.

Only thing im not sure of is what do i need, to be able to get rid of the BT home hub completely, and plug directly into the incoming fibre point ethernet socket? Thats just a switch, i think? I could just go and try... but im being a bit lazy wink

thanks
Your Home Hub is essentially acting as either 3 or 4 things in one box: a modem, a router, a switch and a WAP. If you have ethernet coming in you don't need the modem part. You still need a router (unless you are only having a single device in the house) and a switch. Ubiquiti sell and all-in-one product that can then have further access points hung off it. It's a router, switch and access point in one as well as running the controller software: the Dream Machine. Unless you want rack-mounted kit I'd go for that.

BigTZ4M

237 posts

201 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
Your list of wants won't be covered simply by Ubiquiti access points. They can, however, form part of a solution that will.

Want
- security, including set my own DNS, DMZ, and vlans for crap/risky devices.

UAPs aren't routers so they're not going to help with DNS and DMZ. You set an upstream gateway (your router) and that will define the DNS. It is also your router/firewall (rare to seperate those functions) that will allow you to set a DMZ. As an aside I'd look to your VPN server requirements or reverse proxies rather than have a DMZ as being more secure options.

UAPs will support VLANs. You can have up to four SSIDs and tag each one with a different VLAN. So for example you can create an SSID called IOT_network and set your IoT devices to connect to that network. You tag the traffic on that SSID and then upstream your router/firewall will determine what IP addresses to dish out, what DNS to use and what block rules to have to keep traffic segregated.

Thus for VLANs you're also going to need a router/firewall that supports them and if there are any switches inbetween then they need to support tagged VLAN traffic too. I use a pfSense router for this and a Ubiquiti US-16-150W PoE switch sits between the pfSense and the UAPs. Ubiquiti's own router lines would be either the Edgerouter series, USG or Dream machine that I assume could support the necessary routing/firewall VLAN requirements but I have no personal experience.

- will connect a NAS so needs to be fast.

If you want fast then you don't want to connect your NAS via wifi. Since a NAS is essentially a headless device then just put it next to your router or switch and connect via ethernet cable. The UAPs will play no part other than to serve content from the NAS to any devices connected via wifi. The speed this achieves will be dependent on lots of factors: coverage, maximum throughput capability of the UAP you choose etc. If you need very fast transfers to Wifi clients and you have lots of mixed ability clients (in terms of performance) then you'll want a 4x4 MIMO device which means, unless you want to shell out for a UAP-AC-HD, you should go for Nano-HDs.

- needs to be fast everywhere in the bungalow and not have to drop/reconnect.

It will be fast if you have enough of them and roaming and handoff are very seamless (eg. I neevr drop a VOIP call as I move around the ouse on my mobile) . Without knowing building size, construction material etc. it's difficult to say how many you'll need. I have 3 ACP-LRs in my attics covering a 3,000 sqft two storey house of mixed internal wall construction and it's enough to give me 100Mbps+ everywhere (all I need). To be clear if you're going to invest then be sure to run ethernet cable centrally from your router or switch to the UAPs and place them as they are designed to be which is high up on ceilings (unless you're going with in wall or desktop units but then you'll probably need more due to the way they disperse signals). You can mesh them to one another but since you've got to run an ethernet cable to power them anyway then better to have wired backhaul.

- ideally support VPN for mobile devices when in internet cafs etc.

If by this you mean that when out with your mobile you'd like to VPN back to your home then the UAPs aren't going to form part of a solution. you need a VPN server on your network. This could range from being a feature of your router/firewall (as is the case with my pfSense router running an OpenVPN server) or port forward to a LAN device that can do it such as say a Raspberry Pi running PiVPN

- run pihole to drop ads/trackers

So you'll need a physical, virtual or containerised device running Pihole. Again, the UAPs won't really form part of the solution. Your router needs to have configurable DNS servers which you can point to the PiHole appliance. Most 3rd party routers will let you do this easily. Certainly if you invest in a router/firewall that supports VLANs it'll definitely be capable of pointing DNS to the Pihole I would think.

- kids content and ability to drop or set limits on individual devices (e.g. child not coming down for dinner, turn off their internet to ipad for that device).

The UAPs can help a bit with this. If you create an SSID that you give to the kids to connect to just for them then the UAPs will let you rate limit it, set times when the WifI will and won't be available and maybe some other stuff I haven't looked into. If you want to kill their internet then you'd need to disable the SSID I guess which is straightforward but would need you to fire up the controller, go into the UI and make a config change to disable the SSID. You can also block by device in the controller software. Maybe someone clever has written a script or something that'll do it in a single click but it's not as family friendly as some solutions since this is designed for an enterprise. If you're changing your router then it maybe something better done at the router level.

random_username

207 posts

130 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
Paper Lawyer said:
In my experience the ceiling mounted units are far more effective than the IW unit (which is more designed for a single room). I have the UAP-AC-Pro discs throughout my house (and the separate garage!) and an IW in my lounge - the IW has much more limited range.
I've just replaced a UAP-AC-Pro in the living room with an UAP-HD-IW and the range seems as good as the old AC-Pro, with the added bonus of being much more missus-friendly and having a 4 port switch built in.

xeny

5,524 posts

108 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
random_username said:
I've just replaced a UAP-AC-Pro in the living room with an UAP-HD-IW and the range seems as good as the old AC-Pro, with the added bonus of being much more missus-friendly and having a 4 port switch built in.
The HD range is a generation later than the AC range - within a generation, my experience is that the ceiling mounts tend to outperform the IW units, simply by virtue of being mounted higher up with better line of site (less crap including human bodies and furniture) to clients than the IW.

Paper Lawyer

251 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
robbieduncan said:
There were older IW APs that were WiFi-N iirc. The new IW-AC units should be ok for a while yet I'd have thought.
You would think so but the IW-AC-PRO is in the firing line:

https://community.ui.com/questions/Announcement-EO...

robbieduncan

1,993 posts

266 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
Paper Lawyer said:
You would think so but the IW-AC-PRO is in the firing line:

https://community.ui.com/questions/Announcement-EO...
But the non-pro version is not. Very strange. Glad I have all UAP-AC-IW not UAP-AC-IW-PRO in the house!

bmwmike

Original Poster:

8,771 posts

138 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
robbieduncan said:
But the non-pro version is not. Very strange. Glad I have all UAP-AC-IW not UAP-AC-IW-PRO in the house!
And what happens when they retire the products - no firmware updates, increased security risks. when buying stuff like this which is basically embedded software there should be a clear retirement date communicated just like you get with windows,ubuntu, etc.. so you know you get x years. Doesnt sound like thats the case and they could just pull a sonos and youre done?

Just read the link. i cant tell if UAP-AC-LITE are approaching EOL, or are they categorised under "UAP" in which case they are...



Edited by bmwmike on Wednesday 22 July 18:48

bmwmike

Original Poster:

8,771 posts

138 months

Wednesday 22nd July 2020
quotequote all
BigTZ4M said:
Your list of wants won't be covered simply by Ubiquiti access points. They can, however, form part of a solution that will.

Want
- security, including set my own DNS, DMZ, and vlans for crap/risky devices.

UAPs aren't routers so they're not going to help with DNS and DMZ. You set an upstream gateway (your router) and that will define the DNS. It is also your router/firewall (rare to seperate those functions) that will allow you to set a DMZ. As an aside I'd look to your VPN server requirements or reverse proxies rather than have a DMZ as being more secure options.

UAPs will support VLANs. You can have up to four SSIDs and tag each one with a different VLAN. So for example you can create an SSID called IOT_network and set your IoT devices to connect to that network. You tag the traffic on that SSID and then upstream your router/firewall will determine what IP addresses to dish out, what DNS to use and what block rules to have to keep traffic segregated.

Thus for VLANs you're also going to need a router/firewall that supports them and if there are any switches inbetween then they need to support tagged VLAN traffic too. I use a pfSense router for this and a Ubiquiti US-16-150W PoE switch sits between the pfSense and the UAPs. Ubiquiti's own router lines would be either the Edgerouter series, USG or Dream machine that I assume could support the necessary routing/firewall VLAN requirements but I have no personal experience.

- will connect a NAS so needs to be fast.

If you want fast then you don't want to connect your NAS via wifi. Since a NAS is essentially a headless device then just put it next to your router or switch and connect via ethernet cable. The UAPs will play no part other than to serve content from the NAS to any devices connected via wifi. The speed this achieves will be dependent on lots of factors: coverage, maximum throughput capability of the UAP you choose etc. If you need very fast transfers to Wifi clients and you have lots of mixed ability clients (in terms of performance) then you'll want a 4x4 MIMO device which means, unless you want to shell out for a UAP-AC-HD, you should go for Nano-HDs.

- needs to be fast everywhere in the bungalow and not have to drop/reconnect.

It will be fast if you have enough of them and roaming and handoff are very seamless (eg. I neevr drop a VOIP call as I move around the ouse on my mobile) . Without knowing building size, construction material etc. it's difficult to say how many you'll need. I have 3 ACP-LRs in my attics covering a 3,000 sqft two storey house of mixed internal wall construction and it's enough to give me 100Mbps+ everywhere (all I need). To be clear if you're going to invest then be sure to run ethernet cable centrally from your router or switch to the UAPs and place them as they are designed to be which is high up on ceilings (unless you're going with in wall or desktop units but then you'll probably need more due to the way they disperse signals). You can mesh them to one another but since you've got to run an ethernet cable to power them anyway then better to have wired backhaul.

- ideally support VPN for mobile devices when in internet cafs etc.

If by this you mean that when out with your mobile you'd like to VPN back to your home then the UAPs aren't going to form part of a solution. you need a VPN server on your network. This could range from being a feature of your router/firewall (as is the case with my pfSense router running an OpenVPN server) or port forward to a LAN device that can do it such as say a Raspberry Pi running PiVPN

- run pihole to drop ads/trackers

So you'll need a physical, virtual or containerised device running Pihole. Again, the UAPs won't really form part of the solution. Your router needs to have configurable DNS servers which you can point to the PiHole appliance. Most 3rd party routers will let you do this easily. Certainly if you invest in a router/firewall that supports VLANs it'll definitely be capable of pointing DNS to the Pihole I would think.

- kids content and ability to drop or set limits on individual devices (e.g. child not coming down for dinner, turn off their internet to ipad for that device).

The UAPs can help a bit with this. If you create an SSID that you give to the kids to connect to just for them then the UAPs will let you rate limit it, set times when the WifI will and won't be available and maybe some other stuff I haven't looked into. If you want to kill their internet then you'd need to disable the SSID I guess which is straightforward but would need you to fire up the controller, go into the UI and make a config change to disable the SSID. You can also block by device in the controller software. Maybe someone clever has written a script or something that'll do it in a single click but it's not as family friendly as some solutions since this is designed for an enterprise. If you're changing your router then it maybe something better done at the router level.
Thank you, much appreciated.