Home cinema project

[GrahamPM]

We are currently in the construction phase of a good sized extension to our house which will have a large family/home cinema room. The room will be approx 8x6.5metres and we’ll have a fixed 3mt wide projector screen on the longer wall
Doing a good bit of research this is the proposed set up without blowing the budget.

Sony 4K projector VPL-VW 270ES
3mt wide fixed screen - Sapphire
Yamaha RXA1080 AVR
Centre, Fronts & Rears – Monitor Audio WSS430 wall mounted
Atmos – Monitor Audio CP-CT380 overhead
Subs – Monitor Audio Radius 380 x 2 in the front corners

My reasoning for this set up
Sony - seems the current best 4K projector
Yamaha - I have 2 other amps/AVR which work well and communicate well with Control 4 in the house.
Monitor Audio - I have a number of the ceiling speakers already in the house that perform well.
Screen - just a Google suggestion!
My AV installer has suggested Marantz and KEFs but seems equally happy with the above.

Any comments or alternative set ups appreciated!

Thanks in anticipation
Graham.

[Radec]

Seems quite a good setup, only thing I can comment on is the AVR as I believe the Yammy is 7.2 so you will be limited in your speaker configurations.

Have you considered the Denon AVR-X4500H as this is 9.2 and will process up to 11.2 and can handle more formats.
It case you need to upgrade speaker wise this should be pretty much future proof.

I think it may be a bit cheaper as well if buying new.

[Crackie]

All looks pretty good.

Two subs is a good idea but putting subs in corners isn't ideal. The room is fairly large but length and width are pretty close to each other and the associated nodes and anti nodes will be too. Placing the subs asymmetrically away from corners will help spread their the modal behaviour and give a more even LF response throughout the room.

Loads of helpful articles online regarding sub placement and quite a few free calculators which will do the number crunching for you.

[OldSkoolRS]

The only issue with putting two subs at an un-equal distance from the MLP is that the AVR will have to be able to provide separate (ie, not just parallel) outputs with separate delays for the two subs. Not all AVRs will do this, so it adds to the list of requirements. Also, in order to properly set this up you need to spend time measuring with something like REW and therefore need a UMIK (USB mic with a calibration file). Not everyone is prepared to go down such a rabbit hole and I can't imagine many installers doing this either.

FWIW I recently dropped down from having 4 subs (rear pair closer than the front) and it turned out I get a better response. I was getting some cancellation at the very low end, so I get more below 30Hz response now. The front subs are equidistant from the MLP and my AVR was pretty accurate at setting the delays (OK I did tweak them a little using REW, but most people would have been perfectly happy as it was set).

Might be worth seeing if VEX can be of assistance as he runs an AV company supplying and installing AV systems:

https://americanaudioco.uk/

[Carbon Sasquatch]

The Atmos speakers seem a little OTT compared to the rest of the setup IMHO

I went with C265-IDC’s with Silvers everywhere else.

I went that route as it’s the general one monitor recommend
https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/blog/getting-start...

[Crackie]

OldSkoolRS said:

The only issue with putting two subs at an un-equal distance from the MLP is that the AVR will have to be able to provide separate (ie, not just parallel) outputs with separate delays for the two subs. Not all AVRs will do this, so it adds to the list of requirements. Also, in order to properly set this up you need to spend time measuring with something like REW and therefore need a UMIK (USB mic with a calibration file). Not everyone is prepared to go down such a rabbit hole and I can't imagine many installers doing this either.

FWIW I recently dropped down from having 4 subs (rear pair closer than the front) and it turned out I get a better response. I was getting some cancellation at the very low end, so I get more below 30Hz response now. The front subs are equidistant from the MLP and my AVR was pretty accurate at setting the delays (OK I did tweak them a little using REW, but most people would have been perfectly happy as it was set).

Might be worth seeing if VEX can be of assistance as he runs an AV company supplying and installing AV systems:

https://americanaudioco.uk/

As you say, many people aren't prepared to go down the measurement route but it is certainly possible to achieve great subjective results if you take a little time understand the basic principles and learn what is happening at LF. It is not hard to achieve positions for two subs that aren't symmetrical in the room but are an equal distance from the MLP. Placing the subs closer to the listening position has a couple of significant benefits........the subs don't need as much power to reach a given volume level at the listening position and secondly the sub's group delay can largely be corrected / mitigated without the use of EQ.

Placing the subs in the corners of a room which is almost square in shape is certainly not a good plan. Trying to fix the problem with EQ alone will just soak up the sub amp's power reserves and headroom. Trying to EQ the problem away is usually just waste driver excursion trying to fix an issue that the room and sub placement is responsible for. The room's dimensions, the frequencies concerned and their wavelengths can't be changed; their harmonic relationship and standing waves they cause are easy to understand. Grahampm has chosen Monitor 380 subs, these are passive radiator designs and passive rad designs have HUGE group delay at the resonant frequency. The ideal solution is to move the subs to the optimum positions to help counter the acoustically poor room shape.

All of the above does really depend upon what Grahampm's priorities are; many systems have to be compromised because the best acoustic position is often not domestically acceptable.

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 23 July 08:28

[GrahamPM]

That’s all great info & resource there - thank you.
The smaller C265-IDC looks like a good call.....
Am now wondering to scrap the twin subwoofer idea - we can always install power & cables in all 4 corners and start with one sub and see how it sounds.
At the end of the day, I’m not a connoisseur and doubt that any guests (family) would be that critical!
Cheers Graham

[anonymous-user]

Carbon Sasquatch said:

The Atmos speakers seem a little OTT compared to the rest of the setup IMHO

I went with C265-IDC’s with Silvers everywhere else.

I went that route as it’s the general one monitor recommend
https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/blog/getting-start...

That’s very interesting. I’m about to start my refurb and extension and was assuming I’d need the 265FX speakers as the rear set (I’m going exclusively with ceiling speakers). Obviously not!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Just a word on my Yamaha Aventage stuff, the UI is clunky and they do throw up the odd error/bork for no apparent reason sometimes.

Yes they can be tuned to be much better than a lot of stuff with excellent speakers.

But, I got a relatively cheap Sony for an install I did for someone last year, fitted their budget and needs well. Not quite as good sound as my set up but bloody hell it was easy to use.

[Carbon Sasquatch]

garyhun said:

That’s very interesting. I’m about to start my refurb and extension and was assuming I’d need the 265FX speakers as the rear set (I’m going exclusively with ceiling speakers). Obviously not!

I’m not sure whether the Atmos ones need different characteristics to the rears.....

My rears are wall mounted and have 3 separate speakers in them pointing in different directions, so presumably need to be somewhat more dispersed ?
Maybe just ask Monitor https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/support/contact-us...

[anonymous-user]

Carbon Sasquatch said:

garyhun said:

That’s very interesting. I’m about to start my refurb and extension and was assuming I’d need the 265FX speakers as the rear set (I’m going exclusively with ceiling speakers). Obviously not!

I’m not sure whether the Atmos ones need different characteristics to the rears.....

My rears are wall mounted and have 3 separate speakers in them pointing in different directions, so presumably need to be somewhat more dispersed ?
Maybe just ask Monitor https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/support/contact-us...

Yes, I’ll certainly ask them directly. I’ve had the 265’s before and they have a great sound.

[GrahamPM]

Again - thanks for the info guys; Monitor Audio's Technical came back with 'thumbs up' with the WSS430's in combination with C265-IDC and recommendation for the W12 V2 Subwoofer. Even a pair of the Radius 360's wouldn't be big enough for the room.
So.... that looks like it's all sorted; just the supplier to resolve!
Richer Sounds are putting together a quotation; any other recommendations for mail order?
Graham

[anonymous-user]

garyhun said:

Carbon Sasquatch said:

garyhun said:

That’s very interesting. I’m about to start my refurb and extension and was assuming I’d need the 265FX speakers as the rear set (I’m going exclusively with ceiling speakers). Obviously not!

I’m not sure whether the Atmos ones need different characteristics to the rears.....

My rears are wall mounted and have 3 separate speakers in them pointing in different directions, so presumably need to be somewhat more dispersed ?
Maybe just ask Monitor https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/support/contact-us...

Yes, I’ll certainly ask them directly. I’ve had the 265’s before and they have a great sound.

Just for anyone interested on this thread.... MA technical department have just come back to me also.

For ceiling speakers you need C265IDC for the three front speakers and then 265FX for the two rears. To make it an Atmos system you add 2 more C265 IDC's for the left and right overheads.

[Carbon Sasquatch]

Good that they are so responsive 👍

[henrycrun]

For those on a tiny budget, any HD projector recommendations ?

[GrahamPM]

Right - nailed it; with the help of you guys, MA Tech & VEX, I have ordered
Sony 4K projector VPL-VW 270ES
136" fixed screen.
Marantz SR5015 AVR
Centre, Fronts & Rears – Monitor Audio WSS430 wall mounted
Atmos – Monitor Audio CT265-IDC overhead
Subs – Monitor Audio Radius W12-V2 (single and we'll see how we get on with that)
The foundations are in and there's about 4500 bricks ready to be laid ; should be ready to commission in 6 weeks
Cheers Graham

[Carbon Sasquatch]

Sounds like a good plan.

Any intention for more speakers in future ?

I’m currently at 5.1.4 but put in the cables to go 7.2.4 in case I ever felt the need.

Another tip is for a combination plate & dedicated back box where your receiver is - much easier & neater than multiple sockets IMHO
https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/com...

[anonymous-user]

Carbon Sasquatch said:

Sounds like a good plan.

Any intention for more speakers in future ?

I’m currently at 5.1.4 but put in the cables to go 7.2.4 in case I ever felt the need.

Another tip is for a combination plate & dedicated back box where your receiver is - much easier & neater than multiple sockets IMHO
https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/com...

I think I’ll get one of those.

What’s the square holes for - speaker cables to come through or something/anything else such as tv point etc?

[Carbon Sasquatch]

garyhun said:

I think I’ll get one of those.

What’s the square holes for - speaker cables to come through or something/anything else such as tv point etc?

Euro modules - I’m a bit OCD so went elsewhere as Screwfix don’t sell the BG grey ones to match the sockets, and even though it/‘s behind a cabinet......

You can get tv, sat, Ethernet, HDMI etc inserts - 4 inserts per ‘hole’. Alternatively you can get a brush insert and just run the cables through - I have a mix. You could leave them open, the brush isn’t really needed, but makes it a bit neater.

[GrahamPM]

Carbon Sasquatch said:

Sounds like a good plan.

Any intention for more speakers in future ?

I’m currently at 5.1.4 but put in the cables to go 7.2.4 in case I ever felt the need.

Another tip is for a combination plate & dedicated back box where your receiver is - much easier & neater than multiple sockets IMHO
https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/com...

I'm sure that with 7 speakers it'll be fine - having said that, my installer will probably through in some extra cables to future proof! When we built the house, they installed a fibre network to all the TV outlet positions and back to the comms room.

We've installed these in two other rooms, and will use something similar built into the wall where the AV system's being installed in the cinema room.
https://www.snapav.com/shop/en/snapav/mounts-versa...

Edited by GrahamPM on Friday 24th July 15:54