Companies that BS
Discussion
This is going to be a bit of a rant but I'm annoyed and wondering if anyone else has dealt with this kind of thing before.
For the first time in my career last week I was literally told "To shove my product up my f
king arse you fking " and had the phone slammed down on me. I have of course had heated moments with customers and suppliers in the past but always with a level politeness and respect.
The back ground of how I got to this point is that I had a customer who I developed a product and manufactured it for them to make a larger product of there's work. After a couple of years of everything running okay I got a letter saying they had gone into administration. They owed me £4,500 which in the grand schemes of my company is not a lot. So i wrote it off on the assumption I would never see it, if anything came from the administrators that would be a bonus. No ill feeling towards them at all as I understand sometimes these things happen.
3 years on I get approached by the company with an extremely minor name change with all the same staff, address etc. They start wanting to discuss ordering their old product. The head of sales start pushing me for a discount and longer credit terms based on them being a long standing customer. I point out that if they are long standing customer they owe me money for the last 3 years so definitely won't be getting any credit and the price has actually gone up. I am swiftly told they are a separate company with no connections. I once again politely point out in that case they are a new customer who doesn't qualify for credit or a discount as we have no previous relationship. Also point out I find it hard to believe there is zero connection considering the similar name, products, address and directors. Lots of huffing and puffing phone slammed down.
I was a bit annoyed after this discussion so started digging. Turns out they bought the company back from the administrators leaving all the debt behind changing the name and technically becoming a new company in 2017 straight after going into administration. Yet there website has all over the place about there 75 years of history in the industry and have even been in the news as a shining light of our industry and really big player (laughable).
Couple of days later I get phone call from the MD first thing stated to me is that I am being recorded because of my previous slanderous remarks and anymore will lead to me being prosecuted. I will admit this pissed me off and put me in the mood for a fight. I had pretty much the same conversion again but with the MD very aggressively telling me they weren't associated with the other company. I kept my cool just stated that is fine and I'm happy to work with them but as they are new and so far not starting on the best of terms considering the conversation I had with the head of purchasing, I reserve the right to not lend you my money and any orders will be on my terms or they won't get delivered.
This led to the outburst I mentioned at the beginning. Am in the wrong here? i think I'm being quite reasonable. They just seam like total wide boys who don't pay there bills but publicise themselves as reputable is this normal its the first time I have come across it?
Sorry for the rant.
For the first time in my career last week I was literally told "To shove my product up my f
king arse you fking " and had the phone slammed down on me. I have of course had heated moments with customers and suppliers in the past but always with a level politeness and respect. The back ground of how I got to this point is that I had a customer who I developed a product and manufactured it for them to make a larger product of there's work. After a couple of years of everything running okay I got a letter saying they had gone into administration. They owed me £4,500 which in the grand schemes of my company is not a lot. So i wrote it off on the assumption I would never see it, if anything came from the administrators that would be a bonus. No ill feeling towards them at all as I understand sometimes these things happen.
3 years on I get approached by the company with an extremely minor name change with all the same staff, address etc. They start wanting to discuss ordering their old product. The head of sales start pushing me for a discount and longer credit terms based on them being a long standing customer. I point out that if they are long standing customer they owe me money for the last 3 years so definitely won't be getting any credit and the price has actually gone up. I am swiftly told they are a separate company with no connections. I once again politely point out in that case they are a new customer who doesn't qualify for credit or a discount as we have no previous relationship. Also point out I find it hard to believe there is zero connection considering the similar name, products, address and directors. Lots of huffing and puffing phone slammed down.
I was a bit annoyed after this discussion so started digging. Turns out they bought the company back from the administrators leaving all the debt behind changing the name and technically becoming a new company in 2017 straight after going into administration. Yet there website has all over the place about there 75 years of history in the industry and have even been in the news as a shining light of our industry and really big player (laughable).
Couple of days later I get phone call from the MD first thing stated to me is that I am being recorded because of my previous slanderous remarks and anymore will lead to me being prosecuted. I will admit this pissed me off and put me in the mood for a fight. I had pretty much the same conversion again but with the MD very aggressively telling me they weren't associated with the other company. I kept my cool just stated that is fine and I'm happy to work with them but as they are new and so far not starting on the best of terms considering the conversation I had with the head of purchasing, I reserve the right to not lend you my money and any orders will be on my terms or they won't get delivered.
This led to the outburst I mentioned at the beginning. Am in the wrong here? i think I'm being quite reasonable. They just seam like total wide boys who don't pay there bills but publicise themselves as reputable is this normal its the first time I have come across it?
Sorry for the rant.
I would say you are doing everything absolutely right. They're just seething that the £4500 of free products you 'gave' them is not an offer that is going to be repeated. Bullies hate losing a regular supply of dinner money to steal.
Could you arrange a 'recall' on the parts which were delivered but weren't paid for? If they've used them and they weren't paid for, that is presumably theft?
Could you arrange a 'recall' on the parts which were delivered but weren't paid for? If they've used them and they weren't paid for, that is presumably theft?
Yes, it is the right approach
I would go further and say to them that there is zero prospect of any supply at all unless & until they tip up the £4.5k in full and that each & every future order must be paid for in full, in advance
Some might go further and pay the small fee to make that product a registered design and, should it subsequently be sourced elsewhere, sue for infringement of that IP
I would go further and say to them that there is zero prospect of any supply at all unless & until they tip up the £4.5k in full and that each & every future order must be paid for in full, in advance
Some might go further and pay the small fee to make that product a registered design and, should it subsequently be sourced elsewhere, sue for infringement of that IP
The MD seems to be a bully and why work with bullies if you don't have to?
I had a sales enquiry once and responded with the relevant estimate. He replied saying the mileage charge was 'outrageous' - 50p/mile. I don't trim estimates under duress so I justified it and wished him good luck in his search. A few weeks later he came back, presumably having upset everyone else in my industry. I sensed he'd be the sort to take all the work then dispute the bill so it was a pleasure to tell him that I didn't think it would go well and declined.
The MD in your case has a damn nerve not to pay his last bill, then charge in demanding discounts. On the basis that you'll be pleased never to hear from him again, you might suggest that either (1) if considers settling the £4,500 debt he left you with
from his old company you'll oblige. Or (2) say that as he's already helped himself to £4,500 discount, you're unable to offer further reductions. Or (3) that you'd love to sell him one at half price, but only had one left and since you complied with his instructions it is currently in your bottom...
You're in charge of what you do, not him. You can play with him or just cut him off.
I had a sales enquiry once and responded with the relevant estimate. He replied saying the mileage charge was 'outrageous' - 50p/mile. I don't trim estimates under duress so I justified it and wished him good luck in his search. A few weeks later he came back, presumably having upset everyone else in my industry. I sensed he'd be the sort to take all the work then dispute the bill so it was a pleasure to tell him that I didn't think it would go well and declined.
The MD in your case has a damn nerve not to pay his last bill, then charge in demanding discounts. On the basis that you'll be pleased never to hear from him again, you might suggest that either (1) if considers settling the £4,500 debt he left you with
from his old company you'll oblige. Or (2) say that as he's already helped himself to £4,500 discount, you're unable to offer further reductions. Or (3) that you'd love to sell him one at half price, but only had one left and since you complied with his instructions it is currently in your bottom...
You're in charge of what you do, not him. You can play with him or just cut him off.
Keep your cool. Business is business.
Decide if you want to deal with these people. Probably not, that is entirely your decision, and not theirs.
If you do proceed, go ahead on your terms. Make good money from them. Invoice them pro-forma, their history (or their previous legal entity) make them bad credit. So stick to your guns. After his mini fit, he will probably come back when he realises you’re there best option. But don’t back down, they will flower you with all sorts of promises and gestures. As you said it’s all BS.
Good luck.
Decide if you want to deal with these people. Probably not, that is entirely your decision, and not theirs.
If you do proceed, go ahead on your terms. Make good money from them. Invoice them pro-forma, their history (or their previous legal entity) make them bad credit. So stick to your guns. After his mini fit, he will probably come back when he realises you’re there best option. But don’t back down, they will flower you with all sorts of promises and gestures. As you said it’s all BS.
Good luck.
Yeah, they're trying to pull a fast one, some people are stupid enough to think you can phoenix a company and then just carry on without a care in the world. Nope. Doesnt matter what it says on paper, or in the law, people remember. You can't punch someone in the face then turn up later with a fake moustache and glasses thinking they're going to let you have another go.
DSLiverpool said:
Why are you involved with this? Surely it’s sales, accounts, GM then you ? This is why owners should try to avoid customers wherever possible.
We are a small family company. It’s me, head if production and a book keeper.Book keeper deals with all the orders coming in etc anything that requires decision making is me. Like requests for discount or credit. I only got involved when they got nasty with my book keeper.
Plus I have a personal relationship with most of my customers all over the world it’s part of our success.
As has been said general plan is to work with them but at arms length with pro forma only.
I don’t believe in turning down business I have a 5 month lead time on everything but you never know when things might go quite.
The plan was to make the price go up a suitable amount to make me feel better about the agro
I have just never come across this kind of attitude. Before was wondering if it is common?
I don’t believe in turning down business I have a 5 month lead time on everything but you never know when things might go quite.
The plan was to make the price go up a suitable amount to make me feel better about the agro
I have just never come across this kind of attitude. Before was wondering if it is common?
InitialDave said:
Yeah, they're trying to pull a fast one, some people are stupid enough to think you can phoenix a company and then just carry on without a care in the world. Nope. Doesnt matter what it says on paper, or in the law, people remember. You can't punch someone in the face then turn up later with a fake moustache and glasses thinking they're going to let you have another go.
Pretty much this.'lend' to them again and there is the possibility that they won't pay again ... a risk you want to take?
If you are in a position where your company can continue without their outrageous demands, hold the high ground.
Then tell em where to stick their request....
Unfortunately some people are like this and on occasion it's a MO that works. You've established that they're unpleasant and fundamentally dishonest. You don't need the business but, yes, you can't guarantee you won't suffer a quiet period in the future. However you have a choice whether to mitigate that risk by putting up with their st or pursuing other options. I know which I'd choose if I were in your shoes. Just (as politely as possible) decline their business and move on.
t or pursuing other options. I know which I'd choose if I were in your shoes. Just (as politely as possible) decline their business and move on. I too will never turn away a customer as you never know when you might need them.
I would follow this path.
Increase the price of the goods to help you recover the £4500 lost due to their previous administration. Do not tell them that this is what you are doing as they clearly think the previous debt has nothing to do with their existing company so will not understand your price increase.
Do not offer them credit so Proforma invoice for the full price including tax prior to you commencing the order. Do not be tempted to start on the order or buy in raw materials until the money is in your account..Clearly state on quotes, invoices that work will not commence until order is paid for in full.
Do not let them upset you just work on the basis of you carrying our their future orders at no risk to you and also to regain some of the lost revenue.
You want to win the war not the battle so don’t let them wind you up :}
I would follow this path.
Increase the price of the goods to help you recover the £4500 lost due to their previous administration. Do not tell them that this is what you are doing as they clearly think the previous debt has nothing to do with their existing company so will not understand your price increase.
Do not offer them credit so Proforma invoice for the full price including tax prior to you commencing the order. Do not be tempted to start on the order or buy in raw materials until the money is in your account..Clearly state on quotes, invoices that work will not commence until order is paid for in full.
Do not let them upset you just work on the basis of you carrying our their future orders at no risk to you and also to regain some of the lost revenue.
You want to win the war not the battle so don’t let them wind you up :}
Edited by Eddie Temple on Wednesday 22 July 14:55
Just remain very calm and professional.
i.e
We value your business and would love to work with you, the price is (x) and the terms are (y).
Repeat as required. If your product is good/valuable/cheap enough, they'll order it. If not, they'll go elsewhere.
Don't get into their history or whatever. Just makes a business transaction emotional.
i.e
We value your business and would love to work with you, the price is (x) and the terms are (y).
Repeat as required. If your product is good/valuable/cheap enough, they'll order it. If not, they'll go elsewhere.
Don't get into their history or whatever. Just makes a business transaction emotional.
Simpo Two said:
And don't let anything out of the door until you've been paid. He's screwed you once and he'll do it again if you let him.
Simpo... if the product is not bespoke to the customer I totally agree with you. However if its a bespoke product that only the customer use then i would always get Cash up front......otherwise your stores gets full of parts that you cannot churn into cash when tehy decide not to pay !All good advice provided above. I was frustrated when I was forced to work with OEM sub-contractors (they like to call themselves solutions providers) and found they had very little cash flow and were always late in paying their invoices. I put them on proforma invoice to be told that I couldn’t do that because they were representing our strategic customer, the OEM. I would respond by going straight to the OEM procurement manager and tell him what I was doing.
Sometimes, I had to bite my lip and just let the sub-contractor work to the same rules as the OEM but as soon as they defaulted, all bets were off for any future orders.
Good luck to you and hopefully you’ve not tried sticking your product when the sun doesn’t shine
Sometimes, I had to bite my lip and just let the sub-contractor work to the same rules as the OEM but as soon as they defaulted, all bets were off for any future orders.
Good luck to you and hopefully you’ve not tried sticking your product when the sun doesn’t shine
ntiz said:
We are a small family company. It’s me, head if production and a book keeper.
Book keeper deals with all the orders coming in etc anything that requires decision making is me. Like requests for discount or credit. I only got involved when they got nasty with my book keeper.
Plus I have a personal relationship with most of my customers all over the world it’s part of our success.
It’s hard to remain emotionally detached when you live and breath the business. Everyone’s allowed a little blow off now and again. Book keeper deals with all the orders coming in etc anything that requires decision making is me. Like requests for discount or credit. I only got involved when they got nasty with my book keeper.
Plus I have a personal relationship with most of my customers all over the world it’s part of our success.
You did the right thing IMHO.
They are desperate. They only came to you because their other supplier who has been supplying them since 2017 has now probably put them on stop. So they come back to you in desperation which is why they are trying to bully you into serving them.
Personally, if they approach you again I would just decline their business.
I would not be getting into supplying old customers that went bump with a chunk of debt. They will just treat you as a soft target and do exactly the same again, but for more money. This is their SOP.
The fact they have even rang you would, for me anyway, just be rubbing it in my face that they owe me 4.5k.
At the end of the day its your company and you don't have to serve anyone. Its optional. You get to pick and chose your customers and after that outburst I would be taking steps to ensure that they don't ever become a customer again!
Given we are about to enter a very volatile trading time for the next couple of years you want your customers to be high quality and good at paying their bills.
IMVHO!
They are desperate. They only came to you because their other supplier who has been supplying them since 2017 has now probably put them on stop. So they come back to you in desperation which is why they are trying to bully you into serving them.
Personally, if they approach you again I would just decline their business.
I would not be getting into supplying old customers that went bump with a chunk of debt. They will just treat you as a soft target and do exactly the same again, but for more money. This is their SOP.
The fact they have even rang you would, for me anyway, just be rubbing it in my face that they owe me 4.5k.
At the end of the day its your company and you don't have to serve anyone. Its optional. You get to pick and chose your customers and after that outburst I would be taking steps to ensure that they don't ever become a customer again!
Given we are about to enter a very volatile trading time for the next couple of years you want your customers to be high quality and good at paying their bills.
IMVHO!
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff