Why I'm giving up on modern F1.
Discussion
I've followed F1 since the 1960s but I'm giving up on it now for the following reasons:
I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
There should be a cap on drivers salaries.
There should be a standard car and engine.
There should be a minimum of two tyre suppliers.
Each team should have two regular drivers/cars and a guest car for a non team affiliated driver. McLaren and other teams used to give opportunities to drivers still to break into F1. Then those three cars per team have to set times in Practice to qualify meaning some young guest drivers beat regular drivers. That way there would be new blood coming into the higher echelons and some of the old drivers with money we've had in recent years wouldn't be around as long when they are being beaten by talent. It took Daniel going into Renault to get rid of Hulkenberg. Look at Haas, they need shaking up.
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
There should be a cap on drivers salaries.
There should be a standard car and engine.
There should be a minimum of two tyre suppliers.
Each team should have two regular drivers/cars and a guest car for a non team affiliated driver. McLaren and other teams used to give opportunities to drivers still to break into F1. Then those three cars per team have to set times in Practice to qualify meaning some young guest drivers beat regular drivers. That way there would be new blood coming into the higher echelons and some of the old drivers with money we've had in recent years wouldn't be around as long when they are being beaten by talent. It took Daniel going into Renault to get rid of Hulkenberg. Look at Haas, they need shaking up.
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
)I struggle to understand how anyone who's watched F1 since the 60s can be in favour of making it a spec series. F1 has always been more about the cars than the drivers, and I think the cars are closer in performance now than they've ever been before.
As others have pointed put there's loads of spec series out there if you want to watch one. The engineering competition is what makes F1 F1.
As others have pointed put there's loads of spec series out there if you want to watch one. The engineering competition is what makes F1 F1.
In the 70s most used the Cosworth engine but for Ferrari and BRM initially. Likewise tyres weren't restricted. But we had very different bodywork styles and often other mechanical components played big parts in success. They don't all have to look the same and two successful designers could probably present success looking very different.
You could tell the difference between a Tyrell, March, Hesketh or Lotus even if they were painted the same colour.
I'm not sure that F1 had been more about the teams/cars than the drivers. Many supporters followed their drivers from team to team.
You could tell the difference between a Tyrell, March, Hesketh or Lotus even if they were painted the same colour.
I'm not sure that F1 had been more about the teams/cars than the drivers. Many supporters followed their drivers from team to team.
Edited by Tazar on Wednesday 22 July 17:34
Tazar said:
I've followed F1 since the 1960s but I'm giving up on it now for the following reasons:
I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
+ the cars sound like sI don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
t, even in the flesh.Tazar said:
I've followed F1 since the 1960s but I'm giving up on it now for the following reasons:
I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
Top of your list... and also started https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... "F1-a Sport or Politics ?" as a BLM bonus thread.I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
Stop forcing the F1 forum to read your views. Forcing politics on people aint cool, you told me that.
It’s never going to be like the OP is suggesting.
The old teams like McLaren, Ferrari, Williams would not survive or would want to compete in that scenario.
They are not showcasing what they can do.
Even with identical cars, one tyre would be much better than the rest on a given circuit / day and leave the others for dust.
If you only race in “nice countries” there aren’t really any left. Every country has a. Issue of some sort. U.K. being slavers and colonialists and all that.
It’s either similar to what it is with a few tweaks or it’s not going to exist.
The old teams like McLaren, Ferrari, Williams would not survive or would want to compete in that scenario.
They are not showcasing what they can do.
Even with identical cars, one tyre would be much better than the rest on a given circuit / day and leave the others for dust.
If you only race in “nice countries” there aren’t really any left. Every country has a. Issue of some sort. U.K. being slavers and colonialists and all that.
It’s either similar to what it is with a few tweaks or it’s not going to exist.
You've made you're mind up and that's fine. But let me just pick up on a few points:
If that’s your thing, there’s plenty of one-make series available elsewhere
Tazar said:
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
The FIA's benevolence towards Ferrari is as old as Ferrari itself. Read Nigel Roebuck's review of the the 1980 to 1983 season. It could have been written about the last 10 years. Of more interest is that being the beneficiary of such benevolence how they have managed to do so little with it.Tazar said:
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked
The FIA inspect cars to determine their legality and safety. They have no interest in how a team came up with an idea nor the capacity to check the origins of every design of every component. The teams have the right to request a test of compliance if they feel that something isn’t right. That has always been how the rules have been administered. Tazar said:
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners
Bring back Bernie? What don’t you like about Liberty? Tazar said:
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
Did you read my response to this point on your other thread? If you didn’t read it, go and have a look.Tazar said:
There should be a standard car and engine.
Then it wouldn’t be Formula 1. This approach has been tried – A1GP was essentially 30 Ferrari Formula 1 cars. Despite offering much, it delivered little and petered out. If that’s your thing, there’s plenty of one-make series available elsewhere
Tazar said:
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
No it shouldn’t. F1 should be and is about the best combination of team, driver, engineers, etc. It is and always has been a championship for manufacturers of F1 cars. The teams hire the drivers most likely to demonstrate their engineering prowess by winning races against other similar teams. It’s the unpredictability that comes from aggressive competition that makes it a sport and delivers the intrigue that makes it worthwhile watching – even when unpredictability doesn’t manifest itself that often. It’s the fact that it can that counts.Tazar said:
I've followed F1 since the 1960s but I'm giving up on it now for the following reasons:
I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
There should be a cap on drivers salaries.
There should be a standard car and engine.
There should be a minimum of two tyre suppliers.
Each team should have two regular drivers/cars and a guest car for a non team affiliated driver. McLaren and other teams used to give opportunities to drivers still to break into F1. Then those three cars per team have to set times in Practice to qualify meaning some young guest drivers beat regular drivers. That way there would be new blood coming into the higher echelons and some of the old drivers with money we've had in recent years wouldn't be around as long when they are being beaten by talent. It took Daniel going into Renault to get rid of Hulkenberg. Look at Haas, they need shaking up.
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
All sounds like politics for me. No place for politics in F1. I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
There should be a cap on drivers salaries.
There should be a standard car and engine.
There should be a minimum of two tyre suppliers.
Each team should have two regular drivers/cars and a guest car for a non team affiliated driver. McLaren and other teams used to give opportunities to drivers still to break into F1. Then those three cars per team have to set times in Practice to qualify meaning some young guest drivers beat regular drivers. That way there would be new blood coming into the higher echelons and some of the old drivers with money we've had in recent years wouldn't be around as long when they are being beaten by talent. It took Daniel going into Renault to get rid of Hulkenberg. Look at Haas, they need shaking up.
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
Exige77 said:
If you only race in “nice countries” there aren’t really any left. Every country has a. Issue of some sort. U.K. being slavers and colonialists and all that.
.
UK has since evolved probably more than anywhere else, with the possible exception of Singapore..
Lots of successful and wealthy black people across sport / business / politics in the UK.
Tazar said:
I've followed F1 since the 1960s but I'm giving up on it now for the following reasons:
I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
There should be a cap on drivers salaries.
There should be a standard car and engine.
There should be a minimum of two tyre suppliers.
Each team should have two regular drivers/cars and a guest car for a non team affiliated driver. McLaren and other teams used to give opportunities to drivers still to break into F1. Then those three cars per team have to set times in Practice to qualify meaning some young guest drivers beat regular drivers. That way there would be new blood coming into the higher echelons and some of the old drivers with money we've had in recent years wouldn't be around as long when they are being beaten by talent. It took Daniel going into Renault to get rid of Hulkenberg. Look at Haas, they need shaking up.
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
Bye then and don’t expect to see you posting in the F1 Forum again.I don't like the social blackmailing that some drivers are forcing onto others for not agreeing with BLM.
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked.
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners.
I don't like the lack of equalities in penalties or fines. It's a "luck of the draw" who the race stewards are and penalties differ for basically the same misdemeanour from one race to another.
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
I don't like the lack of opportunities for young drivers with talent but no money.
I don't like watching the same old drivers, paid high salaries, driving for the teams with the most money to spend, starting from the front of the grids and mostly forming a procession to the end.
That's what F1 has become.
There should be a cap on drivers salaries.
There should be a standard car and engine.
There should be a minimum of two tyre suppliers.
Each team should have two regular drivers/cars and a guest car for a non team affiliated driver. McLaren and other teams used to give opportunities to drivers still to break into F1. Then those three cars per team have to set times in Practice to qualify meaning some young guest drivers beat regular drivers. That way there would be new blood coming into the higher echelons and some of the old drivers with money we've had in recent years wouldn't be around as long when they are being beaten by talent. It took Daniel going into Renault to get rid of Hulkenberg. Look at Haas, they need shaking up.
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
StevieBee said:
You've made you're mind up and that's fine. But let me just pick up on a few points:
If that’s your thing, there’s plenty of one-make series available elsewhere
I’m with StevieBee.... Tazar said:
I don't like the lack of transparency with the FIA regarding Ferrari's advantages last year.
The FIA's benevolence towards Ferrari is as old as Ferrari itself. Read Nigel Roebuck's review of the the 1980 to 1983 season. It could have been written about the last 10 years. Of more interest is that being the beneficiary of such benevolence how they have managed to do so little with it.Tazar said:
I don't like the FIA's shoddy standard of inspecting cars pre season. i.e. Racing Point's brake ducts not being checked
The FIA inspect cars to determine their legality and safety. They have no interest in how a team came up with an idea nor the capacity to check the origins of every design of every component. The teams have the right to request a test of compliance if they feel that something isn’t right. That has always been how the rules have been administered. Tazar said:
I don't like the way Liberty behave as a company and as the F1 owners
Bring back Bernie? What don’t you like about Liberty? Tazar said:
I don't like the politics or lack of human rights in some of the countries where F1 competes.
Did you read my response to this point on your other thread? If you didn’t read it, go and have a look.Tazar said:
There should be a standard car and engine.
Then it wouldn’t be Formula 1. This approach has been tried – A1GP was essentially 30 Ferrari Formula 1 cars. Despite offering much, it delivered little and petered out. If that’s your thing, there’s plenty of one-make series available elsewhere
Tazar said:
F1 should be about the best drivers racing others and winning by ability. Imagine all the present drivers in a Mercedes or even all in a Williams? It's unlikely we'd have Lewis winning every race or every championship. It was the same with Schumacher at Ferrari.
No it shouldn’t. F1 should be and is about the best combination of team, driver, engineers, etc. It is and always has been a championship for manufacturers of F1 cars. The teams hire the drivers most likely to demonstrate their engineering prowess by winning races against other similar teams. It’s the unpredictability that comes from aggressive competition that makes it a sport and delivers the intrigue that makes it worthwhile watching – even when unpredictability doesn’t manifest itself that often. It’s the fact that it can that counts.Everything, not just F1 is always a bit ‘ should have would have could have ‘ ....
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
If you only race in “nice countries” there aren’t really any left. Every country has a. Issue of some sort. U.K. being slavers and colonialists and all that.
.
UK has since evolved probably more than anywhere else, with the possible exception of Singapore..
Lots of successful and wealthy black people across sport / business / politics in the UK.
Now, that's fine, but if you are serious about denying a country the right to hold a Grand Prix because of these things in the hope that it may spark a sea change in their domestic policies, you must also extend the same to other countries that remain both ambivalent towards those issues and welcoming of the money that comes from those countries into their economies because otherwise, what's the point other than to make a point which a lousy reason; Russia doesn't get to host a GP...so what? I doubt that would keep Putin awake at night.
So on this basis, you would have to deny the UK, Monaco, France, Abu Dhabi and many others a race. In fact. it's difficult to see where you could race. Australia, maybe....just don't look too closely at how they treat Aboriginal Australians.
StevieBee said:
A point I made on another similarly themed thread the OP started is that to determine those countries you avoid, you need to establish the criteria by which that decision is made amongst which is likely to be corruption, freedom of speech and such like. On that basis, countries like Russia, Bahrain and similar would be without a Grand Prix.
Now, that's fine, but if you are serious about denying a country the right to hold a Grand Prix because of these things in the hope that it may spark a sea change in their domestic policies, you must also extend the same to other countries that remain both ambivalent towards those issues and welcoming of the money that comes from those countries into their economies because otherwise, what's the point other than to make a point which a lousy reason; Russia doesn't get to host a GP...so what? I doubt that would keep Putin awake at night.
So on this basis, you would have to deny the UK, Monaco, France, Abu Dhabi and many others a race. In fact. it's difficult to see where you could race. Australia, maybe....just don't look too closely at how they treat Aboriginal Australians.
Not to mention the opposite way of looking at it... F1 has forever been about equality; sex, sexuality, race has never been remotely important - performance is everything. Isn't that quite a good message to take overseas? Isn't that what brings change?? Showing countries with different ideas about things that, actually, it can work another way?Now, that's fine, but if you are serious about denying a country the right to hold a Grand Prix because of these things in the hope that it may spark a sea change in their domestic policies, you must also extend the same to other countries that remain both ambivalent towards those issues and welcoming of the money that comes from those countries into their economies because otherwise, what's the point other than to make a point which a lousy reason; Russia doesn't get to host a GP...so what? I doubt that would keep Putin awake at night.
So on this basis, you would have to deny the UK, Monaco, France, Abu Dhabi and many others a race. In fact. it's difficult to see where you could race. Australia, maybe....just don't look too closely at how they treat Aboriginal Australians.
If you think that our way of doing things is best, then don't avoid the places that disagree... Visit them first - spread the message
Although personally I couldn't give a stuff. But for those that do worry about such things, even when they're supposed to concentrating on racing, I would think they would be glad to see something like F1 being exported to countries that aren't quite as #woke.
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 23 July 00:05
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff