Faulty windows - who's responsibility?
Discussion
Asking on behalf of a good friend. He and his wife moved into a new build house in January and he's having problems with various unresolved snagging issues. It's a small developer build on a new estate of 15 homes rather than a Bovis box.
He says that almost all of the windows and exterior doors have sagged, rendering some including the patio door to the garden, currently un-useable. He's spoken to the developer a number of times about getting this resolved. The developer says he's tried to call the window company several times but without success, but that ultimately the windows are the responsibility of the window company as they fitted all the windows and offer a 10 year guarantee on their product. He implied that perhaps my friend would like to take it up with the window company.
Now I told my friend in the pub last night that regardless of the window companies guarantee, my friends contract exists with the developer and not the window company since he paid the developer for the full house which included the windows. My friend had no input into which windows were installed or which company was chosen to install them.
There is a possibility of course that the house has settled since completion, and this may have distorted the window frames a little.
I think from the impression my friend gave, that the developer is trying to pull a fast one. The advice I gave to my friend was to continue to chase the developer to sort this. Am I correct?
He says that almost all of the windows and exterior doors have sagged, rendering some including the patio door to the garden, currently un-useable. He's spoken to the developer a number of times about getting this resolved. The developer says he's tried to call the window company several times but without success, but that ultimately the windows are the responsibility of the window company as they fitted all the windows and offer a 10 year guarantee on their product. He implied that perhaps my friend would like to take it up with the window company.
Now I told my friend in the pub last night that regardless of the window companies guarantee, my friends contract exists with the developer and not the window company since he paid the developer for the full house which included the windows. My friend had no input into which windows were installed or which company was chosen to install them.
There is a possibility of course that the house has settled since completion, and this may have distorted the window frames a little.
I think from the impression my friend gave, that the developer is trying to pull a fast one. The advice I gave to my friend was to continue to chase the developer to sort this. Am I correct?
So said:
Why don’t you/he just call the window company and find out?
For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
Simply because the window company does not know who he is, he has no contract with them.For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
As above, the developer is completely responsible.
So said:
Why don’t you/he just call the window company and find out?
For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
It is the developer's problem - end of. There is no contract between the householder and the window company.For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
Cutting the middle man out here is likey to make a mess of things.
Further, the OP stated the developer seems unable to contact the window company.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Thursday 23 July 12:12
So said:
Why don’t you/he just call the window company and find out?
For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
And if they come round assess it and say it’s an installation or house issue, or make some attempt and make it worse....who then becomes responsible. It’s not making it difficult to get the developer to sort it - it is their responsibility.For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
A developer can't get through to a window company? C'mon.
Either that developer has stopped building houses or stopped using the window company for them. Neither scenario is likely.
I'd be pretty certain the developer has a direct point of contact, a senior account manager, at the window company.
Either that developer has stopped building houses or stopped using the window company for them. Neither scenario is likely.
I'd be pretty certain the developer has a direct point of contact, a senior account manager, at the window company.
As someone who used to sell windows to new build do the following,
1, its the developers responsibility, if they are still on site go and see the Site manager in his office and ask him to get hold of the Window company to get the fitters back to fix. (They may struggle with a lead time due to on and off as quickly as possible)
2, If he cannot ask him to get a remedial company out to fix the works (They hate this as they have to pay for this one themselves out of site funds that he will be responsible for)
3, Failing that a polite phone call to Regional Director or Senior QS about how the Site Manager is not helping resolve an issue usually helps.
Good luck
1, its the developers responsibility, if they are still on site go and see the Site manager in his office and ask him to get hold of the Window company to get the fitters back to fix. (They may struggle with a lead time due to on and off as quickly as possible)
2, If he cannot ask him to get a remedial company out to fix the works (They hate this as they have to pay for this one themselves out of site funds that he will be responsible for)
3, Failing that a polite phone call to Regional Director or Senior QS about how the Site Manager is not helping resolve an issue usually helps.
Good luck
The_Nugget said:
So said:
Why don’t you/he just call the window company and find out?
For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
And if they come round assess it and say it’s an installation or house issue, or make some attempt and make it worse....who then becomes responsible. It’s not making it difficult to get the developer to sort it - it is their responsibility.For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
They may then arrange to come out and assess and see what the next course of action is.
It's a phone call.
Simple.
So said:
The_Nugget said:
So said:
Why don’t you/he just call the window company and find out?
For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
And if they come round assess it and say it’s an installation or house issue, or make some attempt and make it worse....who then becomes responsible. It’s not making it difficult to get the developer to sort it - it is their responsibility.For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
They may then arrange to come out and assess and see what the next course of action is.
It's a phone call.
Simple.
if it comes to it and OP's friend feels compelled to take the developer to small claims, then having bypassed them to get remedial work done won't help matters, I shouldn't think.
The developer shouldn't even be suggesting that he take it up with the window company directly, that's just fobbing their responsibilities off. At the end of the day he needs to keep on at them to sort it. They're the ones with the contract, and with the leverage.
now i'm no structural engineer, but I wouldn't have expected PVCU windows to withstand much load.I would have thought there will be varying standards they have for load ratings.
I'm a cynic so in my head developer has not requested the right windows to save money, has changed something else which has increased loading or done something wrong and has fallen out with the window supplier as he has blamed them for his error.
Pursue the developer, but it might be worth getting in touch with the window company to get their take on the situation.
failing that, tell him to contact his home insurance/legal provider
I'm a cynic so in my head developer has not requested the right windows to save money, has changed something else which has increased loading or done something wrong and has fallen out with the window supplier as he has blamed them for his error.
Pursue the developer, but it might be worth getting in touch with the window company to get their take on the situation.
failing that, tell him to contact his home insurance/legal provider
So said:
The_Nugget said:
So said:
Why don’t you/he just call the window company and find out?
For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
And if they come round assess it and say it’s an installation or house issue, or make some attempt and make it worse....who then becomes responsible. It’s not making it difficult to get the developer to sort it - it is their responsibility.For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
They may then arrange to come out and assess and see what the next course of action is.
It's a phone call.
Simple.
The_Nugget said:
So said:
The_Nugget said:
So said:
Why don’t you/he just call the window company and find out?
For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
And if they come round assess it and say it’s an installation or house issue, or make some attempt and make it worse....who then becomes responsible. It’s not making it difficult to get the developer to sort it - it is their responsibility.For all you/he know they could be understanding and send someone round to sort it.
I don’t understand why people make it difficult for themselves, especially when they haven’t tried all the options first.
They may then arrange to come out and assess and see what the next course of action is.
It's a phone call.
Simple.
I have had issues in the past with faulty products and have gone straight to the supplier and they have always been helpful in resolving issues.
Still, the op has decided what to do.
Yes, the developer is responsible.
That said, it is possible he has not yet settled his account with the window supplier and there is a temporary stand-off. Still not finished the rest of the 15 perhaps ? Good advice above tho.
Reading the OP and mention of settlement, I would suggest that it is not uncommon for upvc patio doors to initially settle. The slightest movement, and plastic does move, so I would think that a bit of adjustment is all that is needed. This is far more likely than any structural settlement.
How do I know ?
I've just designed and built a modest house for a friend and on completion, we had to get the window fitter back who within 5 minutes of attending, stopped the patio doors binding and resolved any stiffness in the locking mechanism.
It's usually just a spanner or hexkey tweak to the hinge pin.
Initially it was difficult to arrange a visit as it appears there is a minor construction boom taking place and most tradesmen are flat out, so we had to pester !.
My window supplier was so pleased he has asked to come back to take promotional photos.
That said, it is possible he has not yet settled his account with the window supplier and there is a temporary stand-off. Still not finished the rest of the 15 perhaps ? Good advice above tho.
Reading the OP and mention of settlement, I would suggest that it is not uncommon for upvc patio doors to initially settle. The slightest movement, and plastic does move, so I would think that a bit of adjustment is all that is needed. This is far more likely than any structural settlement.
How do I know ?
I've just designed and built a modest house for a friend and on completion, we had to get the window fitter back who within 5 minutes of attending, stopped the patio doors binding and resolved any stiffness in the locking mechanism.
It's usually just a spanner or hexkey tweak to the hinge pin.
Initially it was difficult to arrange a visit as it appears there is a minor construction boom taking place and most tradesmen are flat out, so we had to pester !.
My window supplier was so pleased he has asked to come back to take promotional photos.
andburg said:
now i'm no structural engineer, but I wouldn't have expected PVCU windows to withstand much load.I would have thought there will be varying standards they have for load ratings.
I'm a cynic so in my head developer has not requested the right windows to save money, has changed something else which has increased loading or done something wrong and has fallen out with the window supplier as he has blamed them for his error.
Pursue the developer, but it might be worth getting in touch with the window company to get their take on the situation.
failing that, tell him to contact his home insurance/legal provider
This, it seems these days that there is no substantial lintel installed, generally a steel plate with a supporting window/door frame is the norm. If so then the frame has to be substantial (steel framed) to help carry the structural load. I'm a cynic so in my head developer has not requested the right windows to save money, has changed something else which has increased loading or done something wrong and has fallen out with the window supplier as he has blamed them for his error.
Pursue the developer, but it might be worth getting in touch with the window company to get their take on the situation.
failing that, tell him to contact his home insurance/legal provider
Meeten-5dulx said:
NHBC?
I'd the builder signed on?
Exactly the people to contact (NHBC), I bought a new Barratts house (don’t say a word I know but the location is perfect and the view from my balcony fantastic).I'd the builder signed on?
We had a problem where a roof tile came off. Luckily nobody was hurt (3 story house). But it did damage the felt as well. Barratts kept saying it was the roof company’s fault. Roof company wouldn’t deal with me at all as I spent 2 days trying to get either one to fix the hole in the roof.
Two things happened. The roof was open to the elements, I kept going up in the loft and putting buckets where it was raining in. Unfortunately I had to go away for a week with work (I informed the building company of this) and sure enough. The ceiling got damaged in the bedroom too. We even had an emergency assessor come round from the house insurance who said it was sub standard workmanship that had caused the issue. Wrote a nice report for us to forward to the builder and roof company.
I had enough. Called NHBC. Sent then pictures of the hole in the roof (drone), pictures of the bedroom ceiling and the insurance assessors report.
2 hours later Barratts representative on the phone. A few hours later the tile in the ceiling was fixed. It then took more threats to get them to fix the bedroom ceiling which took about another 2 days of work about 6 weeks later.
What really really pissed me off was the fact that if they had just sent a roofer round whilst I was at home in the first couple of days of the tile coming off no further damage would have been done. Madness. Must have cost them about 10x the original cost to replace one tile and overlay a bit of felt plus fix the other now known about issues.
One good point though was all the issues with the roof were bought to my attention by the assessor and after some threats of legal action the builder even had to fix everything else. I also informed everyone on the street they might want to have their roofs inspected, Including a copy of the report on my roof.
On top of that they then had my official complaint logged with the NHBC. Not that that would bother them or cost them too much money.
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