looking to get into a v12 aston , which one ?
Discussion
coming from a 991 turbo and looking to upgrade soon , long story short i test drove a friends ferrari ff and now really want a v12 ! my budget is around 85 so i think v12 vantage vanquish d11 can all be had around this figure . Not really looking for a gt as its just for a fun weekend car and theatrics and overall experience are more what i desire opposed to a big comfy cruiser , would i be disappointed with the sportshift 3 coming from pdk in which case i was thinking the vanquish with 8 speed or db11 or vantage manual may be more appropriate ?
My own choice would be the original limited production V12 Vantage (did you say Coupe, a Roadster was also produced in even more limited numbers). They were all 6 speed manuals. amongst the very last of the naturally aspirated, manual V12.
Well with your inducated budget and future depreciation might be minimal, because it has always been a sought after model.
For engine safety, investigate primary cat. removal.
If you think SS3 will be a poor relation compared to PDK, I would steer clear of the 8 speed ZF auto box. By all means try it, but it is a step further away from a PDK box.
If you don't want a GT car, then your best bet is to look at a V12 or a V12S. They aren't pure sportcars and have a sprinkling of GT about them, but less so than say a DB11. To be honest, in terms of outright usuable grunt and grip any AM is going to stuggle to impress compared to a 991 Turbo.
But it sounds like you've got that in mind already. Aroud 85k your Vantage choice comes down to a 6 speed manual V12 or a 7 speed SS3 V12S. The 6 speed has a rep for being a bit more unruly than the V12S; a bit more hairy chested, I suppose.
As for the SS3 box, some people like it a lot (I'm one) and some people don't get on with it. A few things from a personal perspective. It's a single clutch automated manual, so it will never be as quick as a PDK/DSG etc. But it's a damn sight faster and smoother than I can change gear in a manual (I know this for a fact - my other car is a manul Golf R). If you leave it in D and drive it like a manual it is a bit like having an invisible passenger operating the gearstick, making slow, deliberate but smooth changes. If you drive it on the paddles, feather the throttle slightly when you shift, it's a completely different car: the phrase "clutchless manual" is a perfect description, because it's all about timing of the paddleshift, the pedal, the brake, the steer in. It took me about 500 miles to get the measure of it, so I tend to take negative comments about SS3 which are based on a test drive with a pinch of salt.
As a whole the V12S is a pretty analogue car. It has a sports mode, and it has three suspension settings. But you're conscious that you're driving something quite old school. It takes a few minutes for the engine, drivetrain and tyres to warm up, and you can feel the suppleness and responsiveness seeping into the car as they do. It's progressive when pushed, won't snap at you and can be collected reasonably drama-free. It requires you to drive it, even if you're pottling around a city centre.
It all comes down to what you want from the car besides the engine. If that lot sounds appealing, you won't regret buying one.
Finally: try to sample the carbon fibre backed sports seats. No heating elements in them, but they are bloody great. I would have liked to get B&O in mine (as my previous car had it) but the 700W premium system is very very good. If you can stretch to the MY16 cars, you get the waterfall centre console from the Vanquish and the (expensive) option to add CarPlay.
If you don't want a GT car, then your best bet is to look at a V12 or a V12S. They aren't pure sportcars and have a sprinkling of GT about them, but less so than say a DB11. To be honest, in terms of outright usuable grunt and grip any AM is going to stuggle to impress compared to a 991 Turbo.
But it sounds like you've got that in mind already. Aroud 85k your Vantage choice comes down to a 6 speed manual V12 or a 7 speed SS3 V12S. The 6 speed has a rep for being a bit more unruly than the V12S; a bit more hairy chested, I suppose.
As for the SS3 box, some people like it a lot (I'm one) and some people don't get on with it. A few things from a personal perspective. It's a single clutch automated manual, so it will never be as quick as a PDK/DSG etc. But it's a damn sight faster and smoother than I can change gear in a manual (I know this for a fact - my other car is a manul Golf R). If you leave it in D and drive it like a manual it is a bit like having an invisible passenger operating the gearstick, making slow, deliberate but smooth changes. If you drive it on the paddles, feather the throttle slightly when you shift, it's a completely different car: the phrase "clutchless manual" is a perfect description, because it's all about timing of the paddleshift, the pedal, the brake, the steer in. It took me about 500 miles to get the measure of it, so I tend to take negative comments about SS3 which are based on a test drive with a pinch of salt.
As a whole the V12S is a pretty analogue car. It has a sports mode, and it has three suspension settings. But you're conscious that you're driving something quite old school. It takes a few minutes for the engine, drivetrain and tyres to warm up, and you can feel the suppleness and responsiveness seeping into the car as they do. It's progressive when pushed, won't snap at you and can be collected reasonably drama-free. It requires you to drive it, even if you're pottling around a city centre.
It all comes down to what you want from the car besides the engine. If that lot sounds appealing, you won't regret buying one.
Finally: try to sample the carbon fibre backed sports seats. No heating elements in them, but they are bloody great. I would have liked to get B&O in mine (as my previous car had it) but the 700W premium system is very very good. If you can stretch to the MY16 cars, you get the waterfall centre console from the Vanquish and the (expensive) option to add CarPlay.
BlackTails said:
If you think SS3 will be a poor relation compared to PDK, I would steer clear of the 8 speed ZF auto box. By all means try it, but it is a step further away from a PDK box.
If you don't want a GT car, then your best bet is to look at a V12 or a V12S. They aren't pure sportcars and have a sprinkling of GT about them, but less so than say a DB11. To be honest, in terms of outright usuable grunt and grip any AM is going to stuggle to impress compared to a 991 Turbo.
But it sounds like you've got that in mind already. Aroud 85k your Vantage choice comes down to a 6 speed manual V12 or a 7 speed SS3 V12S. The 6 speed has a rep for being a bit more unruly than the V12S; a bit more hairy chested, I suppose.
As for the SS3 box, some people like it a lot (I'm one) and some people don't get on with it. A few things from a personal perspective. It's a single clutch automated manual, so it will never be as quick as a PDK/DSG etc. But it's a damn sight faster and smoother than I can change gear in a manual (I know this for a fact - my other car is a manul Golf R). If you leave it in D and drive it like a manual it is a bit like having an invisible passenger operating the gearstick, making slow, deliberate but smooth changes. If you drive it on the paddles, feather the throttle slightly when you shift, it's a completely different car: the phrase "clutchless manual" is a perfect description, because it's all about timing of the paddleshift, the pedal, the brake, the steer in. It took me about 500 miles to get the measure of it, so I tend to take negative comments about SS3 which are based on a test drive with a pinch of salt.
As a whole the V12S is a pretty analogue car. It has a sports mode, and it has three suspension settings. But you're conscious that you're driving something quite old school. It takes a few minutes for the engine, drivetrain and tyres to warm up, and you can feel the suppleness and responsiveness seeping into the car as they do. It's progressive when pushed, won't snap at you and can be collected reasonably drama-free. It requires you to drive it, even if you're pottling around a city centre.
It all comes down to what you want from the car besides the engine. If that lot sounds appealing, you won't regret buying one.
Finally: try to sample the carbon fibre backed sports seats. No heating elements in them, but they are bloody great. I would have liked to get B&O in mine (as my previous car had it) but the 700W premium system is very very good. If you can stretch to the MY16 cars, you get the waterfall centre console from the Vanquish and the (expensive) option to add CarPlay.
I agree wholeheartedly with Blacktails detailed helpful offering, I had a budget of £90K and bought this November 2016 model year V12VS with sportshift 3 last month a one owner car with 4K miles from Aston Martin Newcastle......If you don't want a GT car, then your best bet is to look at a V12 or a V12S. They aren't pure sportcars and have a sprinkling of GT about them, but less so than say a DB11. To be honest, in terms of outright usuable grunt and grip any AM is going to stuggle to impress compared to a 991 Turbo.
But it sounds like you've got that in mind already. Aroud 85k your Vantage choice comes down to a 6 speed manual V12 or a 7 speed SS3 V12S. The 6 speed has a rep for being a bit more unruly than the V12S; a bit more hairy chested, I suppose.
As for the SS3 box, some people like it a lot (I'm one) and some people don't get on with it. A few things from a personal perspective. It's a single clutch automated manual, so it will never be as quick as a PDK/DSG etc. But it's a damn sight faster and smoother than I can change gear in a manual (I know this for a fact - my other car is a manul Golf R). If you leave it in D and drive it like a manual it is a bit like having an invisible passenger operating the gearstick, making slow, deliberate but smooth changes. If you drive it on the paddles, feather the throttle slightly when you shift, it's a completely different car: the phrase "clutchless manual" is a perfect description, because it's all about timing of the paddleshift, the pedal, the brake, the steer in. It took me about 500 miles to get the measure of it, so I tend to take negative comments about SS3 which are based on a test drive with a pinch of salt.
As a whole the V12S is a pretty analogue car. It has a sports mode, and it has three suspension settings. But you're conscious that you're driving something quite old school. It takes a few minutes for the engine, drivetrain and tyres to warm up, and you can feel the suppleness and responsiveness seeping into the car as they do. It's progressive when pushed, won't snap at you and can be collected reasonably drama-free. It requires you to drive it, even if you're pottling around a city centre.
It all comes down to what you want from the car besides the engine. If that lot sounds appealing, you won't regret buying one.
Finally: try to sample the carbon fibre backed sports seats. No heating elements in them, but they are bloody great. I would have liked to get B&O in mine (as my previous car had it) but the 700W premium system is very very good. If you can stretch to the MY16 cars, you get the waterfall centre console from the Vanquish and the (expensive) option to add CarPlay.
I have no regrets regarding the gearbox one you’ve become acclimatised to it....I to come from a line of Porsche Gt3, Turbo and so on, I also agree a later model like mine gives the modern trinkets that make life easier, the whole package for me is so appealing, highlights obviously the engine it’s like a drug I now cannot live without!
The steering is just so feelsome and the car just wraps around you and when on it very little understeer, and it’s quick very quick not quite what you are used too but still throughly enjoyable in the right circumstances.
I tried some manual Vantages not for me ... for no other reason with today’s traffic issue at times I just cannot be bothered
Try both see what suits there are some great looking ones advertised at the moment....
Jon39 said:
My own choice would be the original limited production V12 Vantage (did you say Coupe, a Roadster was also produced in even more limited numbers). They were all 6 speed manuals. amongst the very last of the naturally aspirated, manual V12.
Well with your inducated budget and future depreciation might be minimal, because it has always been a sought after model.
For engine safety, investigate primary cat. removal.
Big Rat said:
I agree wholeheartedly with Blacktails detailed helpful offering, I had a budget of £90K and bought this November 2016 model year V12VS with sportshift 3 last month a one owner car with 4K miles from Aston Martin Newcastle......
I have no regrets regarding the gearbox one you’ve become acclimatised to it....I to come from a line of Porsche Gt3, Turbo and so on, I also agree a later model like mine gives the modern trinkets that make life easier, the whole package for me is so appealing, highlights obviously the engine it’s like a drug I now cannot live without!
The steering is just so feelsome and the car just wraps around you and when on it very little understeer, and it’s quick very quick not quite what you are used too but still throughly enjoyable in the right circumstances.
I tried some manual Vantages not for me ... for no other reason with today’s traffic issue at times I just cannot be bothered
Try both see what suits there are some great looking ones advertised at the moment....
lovely looking car ! yea i understand its going to different to the pdk , its more driver experience i am after overall . i had a 700bhp gtr before my 911 turbo and both very fast amazingly capable cars but very similar in that they both achieve it in a very for lack of better terms 'german' manner , not much thrill apart once you get over the blistering speed and acceleration. think really i would need to test drive a sportshift and a manual , more what draws me to the sportshift is you can into a much newer vehicle for similar money I have no regrets regarding the gearbox one you’ve become acclimatised to it....I to come from a line of Porsche Gt3, Turbo and so on, I also agree a later model like mine gives the modern trinkets that make life easier, the whole package for me is so appealing, highlights obviously the engine it’s like a drug I now cannot live without!
The steering is just so feelsome and the car just wraps around you and when on it very little understeer, and it’s quick very quick not quite what you are used too but still throughly enjoyable in the right circumstances.
I tried some manual Vantages not for me ... for no other reason with today’s traffic issue at times I just cannot be bothered
Try both see what suits there are some great looking ones advertised at the moment....
cj450 said:
is the primary cat connected to the headers or seperate piece ? i saw a video of one with headers and decat sounded like a ferrari !!
I am not an expert on this (my car is V8V), but there has been some concern about certain circumstances, where pieces of the primary cat can be sucked into the engine. Not good of course!
The V12 manifolds and the primary cats seem to be combined. Now, whether that design us used on all N/A V12 models, I do not know. The fix though is to have different manifolds and then the cat parts cannot be sucked into the engine.
Jon39 said:
I am not an expert on this (my car is V8V), but there has been some concern about certain circumstances, where pieces of the primary cat can be sucked into the engine. Not good of course!
The V12 manifolds and the primary cats seem to be combined. Now, whether that design us used on all N/A V12 models, I do not know. The fix though is to have different manifolds and then the cat parts cannot be sucked into the engine.
From your intro, I would go V12VS SS3.
Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
Phil74891 said:
From your intro, I would go V12VS SS3.
Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
for a design that came out so long ago it looks amazing still ! yes i would want to do some exhaust tweaking to bring out the v12 , love the idea of the headers but quite pricey , are primary cats attached to headers ? theres a yellow one on youtube headers and decat sounds like a lambo or ferrari ! i wander how much difference just 2nd decat and x pipe makes ? Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
cj450 said:
for a design that came out so long ago it looks amazing still ! yes i would want to do some exhaust tweaking to bring out the v12 , love the idea of the headers but quite pricey , are primary cats attached to headers ? theres a yellow one on youtube headers and decat sounds like a lambo or ferrari ! i wander how much difference just 2nd decat and x pipe makes ?
It sounds pretty good with with exhaust valves open as it is. Fairly soon I plan to have the primary cats gutted on mine and high flow secondary cats installed. This is more to get most of the performance bump that AM offer for ~16k, with out paying that much. I might see about tweaking the noise a little bit, but that’s not the main reason to have the work done. Another V12VS SS3 vote. Not much to add to the comments about the 'box, which I also like very much.
I had the secondary cats removed on mine and fitted a ccharger switchable remote valve thingy. It can now be pretty restrained or more raucous. It sounds exactly like this, a sound which I just cannot get enough of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpwPat12uyQ
Bamford Rose will do equal length headers to remove the original asphyxiating setup and with some tweaking will get the power to over 600 bhp (which I can't see being very noticeable most of the time) but with a lot more low-mid range torque. I keep wondering about getting that done, along with CarPlay (the original satnav is rubbish).
I had the secondary cats removed on mine and fitted a ccharger switchable remote valve thingy. It can now be pretty restrained or more raucous. It sounds exactly like this, a sound which I just cannot get enough of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpwPat12uyQ
Bamford Rose will do equal length headers to remove the original asphyxiating setup and with some tweaking will get the power to over 600 bhp (which I can't see being very noticeable most of the time) but with a lot more low-mid range torque. I keep wondering about getting that done, along with CarPlay (the original satnav is rubbish).
Having read the thread I think cj450 Is inclined towards the Vantage.
On a budget of £85k the 7 speed manual V12s is sadly too expensive.
My suggestion is cj450 test drives both the original 6 speed manual and the V12s with the flappy paddle gearbox and decides which one, if either, fulfills his needs.
I would also suggest, as a previous poster has said that cj450 also try to get a car with the lightweight seats.
On a budget of £85k the 7 speed manual V12s is sadly too expensive.
My suggestion is cj450 test drives both the original 6 speed manual and the V12s with the flappy paddle gearbox and decides which one, if either, fulfills his needs.
I would also suggest, as a previous poster has said that cj450 also try to get a car with the lightweight seats.
cj450 said:
...... are primary cats attached to headers ?
These technical videos might be of help to you.
Seems to be wise advice.
One of the current posters on here is seeking a replacement engine, following what he thinks must be primary cat damage.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kiCerrUQRGM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DL-Bgzjy6IM
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 27th July 11:35
Phil74891 said:
From your intro, I would go V12VS SS3.
Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
See the similarities in our cars Phil.......Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/yafRRTTR.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/DqEAV5ax" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/DqEAV5ax.jpg)
Not wanting to hijack the thread but was wondering what other additions to yours you’ve had done post purchase that the prospective buyer on here may want to consider if he found a car on sale with modifications from standard ?
I’ve been to Aston Martin Bristol who care for mine and supply and fit including VAT secondary cats straight through is £720.00, obviously no warranty issues then.
Yes, very similar. Mine is painted in Ferrari Nero Daytona. One of two V12S’s produced in that colour.
I got the secondary decat through AM Cheltenham which is my closest main dealer. Similar price to Bristol.
I took fuse 15 out on the day I bought it and haven’t bothered with a switch. I live in a rural location so don’t have neighbours to worry about re the noise - which is er, noisy.
That’s it, I’ve not done anything else to it, other than a machine polish and ceramic coating. I may look into the primary cat modification via BR which are also close to me. Not sure I need any more power though!
It’s due some tyres soon so will try Michelin PS4S to replace the P Zeros on it.
Mine’s a keeper for sure. I can’t think of a single other car I would replace it with.
Not wanting to hijack the thread but was wondering what other additions to yours you’ve had done post purchase that the prospective buyer on here may want to consider if he found a car on sale with modifications from standard ?
I’ve been to Aston Martin Bristol who care for mine and supply and fit including VAT secondary cats straight through is £720.00, obviously no warranty issues then.
I got the secondary decat through AM Cheltenham which is my closest main dealer. Similar price to Bristol.
I took fuse 15 out on the day I bought it and haven’t bothered with a switch. I live in a rural location so don’t have neighbours to worry about re the noise - which is er, noisy.
That’s it, I’ve not done anything else to it, other than a machine polish and ceramic coating. I may look into the primary cat modification via BR which are also close to me. Not sure I need any more power though!
It’s due some tyres soon so will try Michelin PS4S to replace the P Zeros on it.
Mine’s a keeper for sure. I can’t think of a single other car I would replace it with.
Big Rat said:
Phil74891 said:
From your intro, I would go V12VS SS3.
Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
See the similarities in our cars Phil.......Had mine almost six years and love everything about it, especially SS3. See if you can find one with Lightweight seats. So much better than the sports seats. Obviously try both if you can.
Then remove the secondary cats and you’ll have possibly the best sounding car out there.
Not wanting to hijack the thread but was wondering what other additions to yours you’ve had done post purchase that the prospective buyer on here may want to consider if he found a car on sale with modifications from standard ?
I’ve been to Aston Martin Bristol who care for mine and supply and fit including VAT secondary cats straight through is £720.00, obviously no warranty issues then.
Another big thumbs up re V12VS with SSIII - bursting with old school charm and character and the gearbox needs input and a bit of mastering but that’s part of the fun. I tried a manual and not for me and that’s without having to pay more! Had a 911 with DSG and it’s technically ‘better’ but just a bit, well...bland?
LordBretSinclair said:
Another vote for the Vantage V12 S.
I was hardened manual man but the SSIII is epic is you want a drivers car.
BR manifolds, secondary decat and Clive's fuse switch just add to the sense of occasion
Another vote for the BR manifolds? I’d be interested in your feedback. The temptation will be overwhelming after my warranty’s up at the end of the year. Did you get the cams done as well?I was hardened manual man but the SSIII is epic is you want a drivers car.
BR manifolds, secondary decat and Clive's fuse switch just add to the sense of occasion
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