Exeter Chiefs accused of being 'tone deaf'.
Discussion
Guardian article here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exet...
I can't help thinking that the Exeter Chiefs For Change campaign is just a bunch of neo-Marxist, postmodernists looking for something to be offended about. Furthermore, they seem to almost deliberately ignorant of the distinction between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
They also seem to gleefully brand anyone that disagrees with their somewhat extreme point of view as bigots. When they, themselves, point blank refuse to acknowledge any other point of view on the issue that isn't their own. Or, rather, any point of view doesn't fit very neatly with their critical race theory ideology.
I can't help thinking that the Exeter Chiefs For Change campaign is just a bunch of neo-Marxist, postmodernists looking for something to be offended about. Furthermore, they seem to almost deliberately ignorant of the distinction between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
They also seem to gleefully brand anyone that disagrees with their somewhat extreme point of view as bigots. When they, themselves, point blank refuse to acknowledge any other point of view on the issue that isn't their own. Or, rather, any point of view doesn't fit very neatly with their critical race theory ideology.
Rob_R said:
Guardian article here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exet...
I can't help thinking that the Exeter Chiefs For Change campaign is just a bunch of neo-Marxist, postmodernists looking for something to be offended about. Furthermore, they seem to almost deliberately ignorant of the distinction between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
They also seem to gleefully brand anyone that disagrees with their somewhat extreme point of view as bigots. When they, themselves, point blank refuse to acknowledge any other point of view on the issue that isn't their own. Or, rather, any point of view doesn't fit very neatly with their critical race theory ideology.
How?I can't help thinking that the Exeter Chiefs For Change campaign is just a bunch of neo-Marxist, postmodernists looking for something to be offended about. Furthermore, they seem to almost deliberately ignorant of the distinction between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
They also seem to gleefully brand anyone that disagrees with their somewhat extreme point of view as bigots. When they, themselves, point blank refuse to acknowledge any other point of view on the issue that isn't their own. Or, rather, any point of view doesn't fit very neatly with their critical race theory ideology.
ant1973 said:
Rob_R said:
Guardian article here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exet...
I can't help thinking that the Exeter Chiefs For Change campaign is just a bunch of neo-Marxist, postmodernists looking for something to be offended about. Furthermore, they seem to almost deliberately ignorant of the distinction between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
They also seem to gleefully brand anyone that disagrees with their somewhat extreme point of view as bigots. When they, themselves, point blank refuse to acknowledge any other point of view on the issue that isn't their own. Or, rather, any point of view doesn't fit very neatly with their critical race theory ideology.
How?I can't help thinking that the Exeter Chiefs For Change campaign is just a bunch of neo-Marxist, postmodernists looking for something to be offended about. Furthermore, they seem to almost deliberately ignorant of the distinction between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.
They also seem to gleefully brand anyone that disagrees with their somewhat extreme point of view as bigots. When they, themselves, point blank refuse to acknowledge any other point of view on the issue that isn't their own. Or, rather, any point of view doesn't fit very neatly with their critical race theory ideology.
Am I missing something when I compare this to the thousand white Western (presumably Catholic) caricatures such as those which that depict Italians, in the context of Italian food, or culture?
The idea that you can adorn every pizza box with this stereotype but not pancake mix with Aunt Jemima who is based on a real person perplexes me. The criticism is that is based on a stereotype, but presumably if the Italians suffered in some way this would be equally unacceptable in the future.
My other issue is the sentiment that all stereotypes are problematic due to being negative and false (except of course the Italian one)
The idea that you can adorn every pizza box with this stereotype but not pancake mix with Aunt Jemima who is based on a real person perplexes me. The criticism is that is based on a stereotype, but presumably if the Italians suffered in some way this would be equally unacceptable in the future.
My other issue is the sentiment that all stereotypes are problematic due to being negative and false (except of course the Italian one)
Edited by R Mutt on Thursday 30th July 13:37
R Mutt said:
Am I missing something when I compare this to the thousand white Western (presumably Catholic) caricatures such as those which that depict Italians, in the context of Italian food, or culture?
The idea that you can adorn every pizza box with this stereotype but not pancake mix with Aunt Jemima who is based on a real person perplexes me. The criticism is that is based on a stereotype, but presumably if the Italians suffered in some way this would be equally unacceptable in the future.
My other issue is the sentiment that all stereotypes are problematic due to being negative and false (except of course the Italian one)
Similar thoughts to myself. The idea that you can adorn every pizza box with this stereotype but not pancake mix with Aunt Jemima who is based on a real person perplexes me. The criticism is that is based on a stereotype, but presumably if the Italians suffered in some way this would be equally unacceptable in the future.
My other issue is the sentiment that all stereotypes are problematic due to being negative and false (except of course the Italian one)
Edited by R Mutt on Thursday 30th July 13:37
The ideology seems to prescribe that any stereotype is automatically a negative one regardless of the intentions of the originator. i.e., that because 'we' think that a stereotype is negative, therefore it absolutely must be. This is the only logical conclusion and anyone who disagrees is an atrocious bigot.
Rob_R said:
R Mutt said:
Am I missing something when I compare this to the thousand white Western (presumably Catholic) caricatures such as those which that depict Italians, in the context of Italian food, or culture?
The idea that you can adorn every pizza box with this stereotype but not pancake mix with Aunt Jemima who is based on a real person perplexes me. The criticism is that is based on a stereotype, but presumably if the Italians suffered in some way this would be equally unacceptable in the future.
My other issue is the sentiment that all stereotypes are problematic due to being negative and false (except of course the Italian one)
Similar thoughts to myself. The idea that you can adorn every pizza box with this stereotype but not pancake mix with Aunt Jemima who is based on a real person perplexes me. The criticism is that is based on a stereotype, but presumably if the Italians suffered in some way this would be equally unacceptable in the future.
My other issue is the sentiment that all stereotypes are problematic due to being negative and false (except of course the Italian one)
Edited by R Mutt on Thursday 30th July 13:37
The ideology seems to prescribe that any stereotype is automatically a negative one regardless of the intentions of the originator. i.e., that because 'we' think that a stereotype is negative, therefore it absolutely must be. This is the only logical conclusion and anyone who disagrees is an atrocious bigot.
Red Skins is perhaps offensive (I don't think it is intended to be though the owners history does suggest prejudice, I think they were last to sign a black player etc). But this, in the UK does not seem to really be in the same league (indeed it is not lol).
So its ok to use Aunt Bessy image (old white women who makes good roast potatoes), but you can't call your team the chiefs. I do not really understand how if we continue to ban everything one day wont we just be segregated through fear of accusations of cultural appropriation.
how dare you eat Pizza its Italian, Rice are you some sort of Racist, German Car wannabe Nazi, Apple phone, what are you some sort of Alt Right person.
So its ok to use Aunt Bessy image (old white women who makes good roast potatoes), but you can't call your team the chiefs. I do not really understand how if we continue to ban everything one day wont we just be segregated through fear of accusations of cultural appropriation.
how dare you eat Pizza its Italian, Rice are you some sort of Racist, German Car wannabe Nazi, Apple phone, what are you some sort of Alt Right person.
21TonyK said:
As a Chiefs supporter I agree with what they have done, having a cartoon "Indian Chief" dancing round waving a tomahawk is a little obvious. Keeping the name and logo, no issue for me.
Do you think the rather cringeworthy behaviour of the supporters ( Headdresses, paint, ridiculous chants, drums etc) will stop? 21TonyK said:
As a Chiefs supporter I agree with what they have done, having a cartoon "Indian Chief" dancing round waving a tomahawk is a little obvious. Keeping the name and logo, no issue for me.
Obvious what. Racial stereotype? What about Super Mario? An Italian stereotype created by the Japanese
R Mutt said:
21TonyK said:
As a Chiefs supporter I agree with what they have done, having a cartoon "Indian Chief" dancing round waving a tomahawk is a little obvious. Keeping the name and logo, no issue for me.
Obvious what. Racial stereotype? What about Super Mario? An Italian stereotype created by the Japanese
Gecko1978 said:
R Mutt said:
21TonyK said:
As a Chiefs supporter I agree with what they have done, having a cartoon "Indian Chief" dancing round waving a tomahawk is a little obvious. Keeping the name and logo, no issue for me.
Obvious what. Racial stereotype? What about Super Mario? An Italian stereotype created by the Japanese
XCP said:
21TonyK said:
As a Chiefs supporter I agree with what they have done, having a cartoon "Indian Chief" dancing round waving a tomahawk is a little obvious. Keeping the name and logo, no issue for me.
Do you think the rather cringeworthy behaviour of the supporters ( Headdresses, paint, ridiculous chants, drums etc) will stop? Interestingly, the campaign that started all of this was changethemascot.org.
Of course they wanted the Washington Redskins to change their name as well, as that is very much perceived as a racial slur, but their concern in the wider world was the use of caricatures as mascots, so it strikes me that the Chiefs have done as asked in retiring their mascot.
21TonyK said:
As a Chiefs supporter I agree with what they have done, having a cartoon "Indian Chief" dancing round waving a tomahawk is a little obvious. Keeping the name and logo, no issue for me.
I can see why they have done this and, if there is any point to be conceded, it's this. This doesn't seem to be enough for the Exeter for change group, who at this point are probably smelling blood and going in for the kill. It seems like a rather bored group of people have identified a vector with which their ideology can get some traction and have pulled out all the stops to make it happen.
I gather they have roped in a few fellow neo-Marxists, I mean, Native Americans to go along with their little scheme. And then taken the opinions of these poor people as a mandate to bully Exeter Rugby club into submission. All seems a bit bonkers to me.
R Mutt said:
21TonyK said:
As a Chiefs supporter I agree with what they have done, having a cartoon "Indian Chief" dancing round waving a tomahawk is a little obvious. Keeping the name and logo, no issue for me.
Obvious what. Racial stereotype? What about Super Mario? An Italian stereotype created by the Japanese
The same positivity is there for Mario - Italian plumber, yes. But also the hero of the game.
Exeter Chiefs' statement was very professional IMO and I really hope they stick to their guns. (Don't agree with the mascot thing tbh - if the underpinnings are respectful rather than disrespectful then am not sure how the mascot is any different to the badge...but looks like a well considered statement and I hope the anti brigade can let it be now).
https://www.exeterchiefs.co.uk/news/club-statement...
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