Thinking of buying one...
Discussion
Hi there!
I own a TVR Cerbera 4.5 which I am very happy with. However, it's quite difficult to drive for me (high power to weight ratio, no driving aids at all...). Right now I am starting to fancy a corvette (looks the nuts, doesn't have reliability issues and is easier to handle). But as I am new into Corvettes, there are some questions:
- Which are the running costs per year (approx)? Fom mine I can expect a minimum of 1K per year (service +tyres only) but could go up to 3K.
- I would like a later model (2001 or later) and prefer manual. Which prize should I expect and which models do you reckon are the best?
- Any other helpful advice?
- Anybody fancy a car swap? ;)
Thanks everybody!!
I own a TVR Cerbera 4.5 which I am very happy with. However, it's quite difficult to drive for me (high power to weight ratio, no driving aids at all...). Right now I am starting to fancy a corvette (looks the nuts, doesn't have reliability issues and is easier to handle). But as I am new into Corvettes, there are some questions:
- Which are the running costs per year (approx)? Fom mine I can expect a minimum of 1K per year (service +tyres only) but could go up to 3K.
- I would like a later model (2001 or later) and prefer manual. Which prize should I expect and which models do you reckon are the best?
- Any other helpful advice?
- Anybody fancy a car swap? ;)
Thanks everybody!!
A reasonable set of tyres (Falken) costs about £500 fitted and should last you 20,000 miles. You can buy more expensive tyres of course, at this point I would normally suggest Michelins but they might be on a big discount this week...
I get about 26MPG out of my '02 coupe, the more leadfooted get nearer to the 20 mark.
Servicing is reasonable from main dealers, say about £300 every 10,000 miles. Major service is every 100,000 miles. They're quite easy to work on yourself if you want to.
Probably the best thing you can do is come along to the Corvette Nationals at Knebworth Park this weekend. There should be 300 or more 'vettes of various ages to look at, many of which will be for sale.
Oh, and try to get one with a HUD, it makes driving much more of a pleasure. A sample can be seen about half way down the page here: www.corvetteclips.co.uk/VideoClips.html
I get about 26MPG out of my '02 coupe, the more leadfooted get nearer to the 20 mark.
Servicing is reasonable from main dealers, say about £300 every 10,000 miles. Major service is every 100,000 miles. They're quite easy to work on yourself if you want to.
Probably the best thing you can do is come along to the Corvette Nationals at Knebworth Park this weekend. There should be 300 or more 'vettes of various ages to look at, many of which will be for sale.
Oh, and try to get one with a HUD, it makes driving much more of a pleasure. A sample can be seen about half way down the page here: www.corvetteclips.co.uk/VideoClips.html
My Z06 is for sale too and it's electron blue.
Basicallly, you've got your cooking 345hp C5 in either auto or manual. The manual is a stiff notchy box but it's something you get used to. The auto tends to come with the touring rear end 2.73 gears whereas the manuals come with a lower 3.42 rear end so the manual tends to be quicker. However, it comes with an annoying 1-4 shift in ligght use whic saves fuel but irritates. You can over-ride this.
The stock Corvette suspension is the FE1 suspension. Some came with adjustable suspension but they're probably not worth looking for specifically. A fairly essential option for the keen driver is the Z51 sport suspension option. All C5's are the coupe or convertible although in the US only, in 1999 and 2000, they made a hardtop (fixed roof coupe).
The most sporting and fastest of the breed is the Z06 introduced in 2001 as a fixed roof coupe only and from that point, only the Z06 came in that style. It has uprated FE4 suspension and is manual only. It used a better version of the LS1 dubbed the LS6. The 2001's produced 385bhp and had some issues with oil consumption and a weak clutch. The 2002 remedied these faults and uprated the power to 405bhp and it remained pretty much unchanged until it's demise in 2004 with only better rear dampers and a carbon fibre bonnet on the run-out Z16's (the striped ones).
The LS1/LS6 are all-alloy pushrod engines with hydraulic rockers. All engine function is controlled by a computer automatically and there is no distributor, just 8 coils. What this means is that maintenance is pretty much a doddle. there are no known weaknesses and a V8 will easily do 100,000 miles without any trouble at all. It will probably do 250,000 miles without too much trouble too.
Everything is fairly simple and logical. You can change the oil yourself and an oil filter can be had for as little as £6. Manuals don't need the gearbox oil changed really but autos need the transmission fluid changed every 30k and that's pretty easy too.
Your main expense will be tyres and brake pads and maybe a set of discs every 30-40k. Your main expense will probably be ordering lots of bolt-ons from the US which generally prove irresistible.
They are very tunable and I'm looking at an edition of Corvette Fever here which has a C5 which produces 483 rear wheel bhp just using intake, exhaust and a set of AFR heads without changing the 5.7 capacity.
Basicallly, you've got your cooking 345hp C5 in either auto or manual. The manual is a stiff notchy box but it's something you get used to. The auto tends to come with the touring rear end 2.73 gears whereas the manuals come with a lower 3.42 rear end so the manual tends to be quicker. However, it comes with an annoying 1-4 shift in ligght use whic saves fuel but irritates. You can over-ride this.
The stock Corvette suspension is the FE1 suspension. Some came with adjustable suspension but they're probably not worth looking for specifically. A fairly essential option for the keen driver is the Z51 sport suspension option. All C5's are the coupe or convertible although in the US only, in 1999 and 2000, they made a hardtop (fixed roof coupe).
The most sporting and fastest of the breed is the Z06 introduced in 2001 as a fixed roof coupe only and from that point, only the Z06 came in that style. It has uprated FE4 suspension and is manual only. It used a better version of the LS1 dubbed the LS6. The 2001's produced 385bhp and had some issues with oil consumption and a weak clutch. The 2002 remedied these faults and uprated the power to 405bhp and it remained pretty much unchanged until it's demise in 2004 with only better rear dampers and a carbon fibre bonnet on the run-out Z16's (the striped ones).
The LS1/LS6 are all-alloy pushrod engines with hydraulic rockers. All engine function is controlled by a computer automatically and there is no distributor, just 8 coils. What this means is that maintenance is pretty much a doddle. there are no known weaknesses and a V8 will easily do 100,000 miles without any trouble at all. It will probably do 250,000 miles without too much trouble too.
Everything is fairly simple and logical. You can change the oil yourself and an oil filter can be had for as little as £6. Manuals don't need the gearbox oil changed really but autos need the transmission fluid changed every 30k and that's pretty easy too.
Your main expense will be tyres and brake pads and maybe a set of discs every 30-40k. Your main expense will probably be ordering lots of bolt-ons from the US which generally prove irresistible.
They are very tunable and I'm looking at an edition of Corvette Fever here which has a C5 which produces 483 rear wheel bhp just using intake, exhaust and a set of AFR heads without changing the 5.7 capacity.
Nationals is a good idea, also find cars for sale on the CCUK Web site
Corvette Club.org.uk
www.corvetteclub.org.uk/forum.php?c=14&sid=f6415d45adf18099799760aab0f698c3
I raced a Tuscan down to Leman in 03 and he locked up on every roundabout and couldn’t get the power on without stepping out.
Sam
Corvette Club.org.uk
www.corvetteclub.org.uk/forum.php?c=14&sid=f6415d45adf18099799760aab0f698c3
I raced a Tuscan down to Leman in 03 and he locked up on every roundabout and couldn’t get the power on without stepping out.
Sam
javi1892 said:
Anybody fancy a car swap? 
No thanks - I love my Corvette
But remember also that buying a Corvette also brings you into the world of a motoring icon, 50+ years in the making. Featured in songs and movies, it is lusted after world over. It is also a much better car than you would think, and is generally an excellent driveability car, so not just a "weekend" machine if you want.
Additionally, despite waffle to the contrary from the likes of Top Gear, Autocar and Car magazine (etc.!): the Corvette is an extremely quick car to drive, especially with the better suspension options. It is easier to drive quickly than perhaps a 911, even though "on the edge" the 911 may offer a bit more.
My Corvette, a 1991 ZR1 model, is 100% stock, and is very, very quick; newer ones should be as quick or quicker. My '91 handles very well too, and just inspires you to go quicker [which I do]. 160mph and still pulling (well it should - 185mph beckons), 0-60 in 4.5seconds... and all serviced at home.
Cheaper to run than a Ford Fiesta [petrol isn't the only cost you know - think depreciation
], and £385 to insure (I have 6(9) points too) fully comp for 7500 miles a year. Oh and last but not least. It is a Corvette. Say the name 10 times. "I drive a Corvette".
[I think I'll apply for the post of Preacher of the Corvette Gospel]
Amen
c4koh said:
I think I'll apply for the post of Preacher of the Corvette Gospel
After that sermon maybe I'll keep mine :-) Actually, if it weren't for the fact of living in London and not having the option to drive her to work I wouldn't be separated from her. As it is I'm just too busy to enjoy her and so it's a waste to own such a thing of beauty. :-(
-kenski
Y50 VET said:
I raced a Tuscan down to Leman in 03 and he locked up on every roundabout and couldn’t get the power on without stepping out.
Sam
That's nothing. I raced a bus down Clapham High Street and although I couldn't get past him he couldn't get far without stopping to let passengers on... <sigh>
-kenski
Used to have a Cerbera. Now have a Corvette. It's great. Plus, I don't start sweating when standing traffic approaches in summer...
Unfortunately I do want to change my C5...
.... for a C6 Z06! Going to goodwood tonight and apprently there's going to be one there... will try and smuggle it out...
Unfortunately I do want to change my C5...
.... for a C6 Z06! Going to goodwood tonight and apprently there's going to be one there... will try and smuggle it out...
I've also toyed with idea of getting a corvette ...however the one that really appeals to me is the late '70s/early 80's stingrays.. (purely on looks to be honest!)
Does anyone have any experience with these, and most importantly, what are they like to drive?.. I appreciate that the modern (C5/C6) have the handling pretty much sorted, however I'm guessing that probably doesn't apply to the earlier models..
Does anyone have any experience with these, and most importantly, what are they like to drive?.. I appreciate that the modern (C5/C6) have the handling pretty much sorted, however I'm guessing that probably doesn't apply to the earlier models..
hiasakite said:
I've also toyed with idea of getting a corvette ...however the one that really appeals to me is the late '70s/early 80's stingrays.. (purely on looks to be honest!)
Does anyone have any experience with these, and most importantly, what are they like to drive?.. I appreciate that the modern (C5/C6) have the handling pretty much sorted, however I'm guessing that probably doesn't apply to the earlier models..
It certainly doesn't. By the standards of the day, not too bad but the standards of the day weren't very good. Think loose steering, scary handling and also you need to know what you're doing when it comes to restoring fibreglass. The C4 was the first decent handling production Corvette by modern standards.
Loose steering?- right you are scarying me off now... that sounds quite frankly horrifying... I'm used to drive fairly 'tight handling' and communicative cars... the idea of not knowing necessarily what the car is doing too well, and particularly if thats coupled with a vague steering response doesn't sound like my idea of fun at all..
Makes my other option (replica chevy blocked Cobra) sound sensible..
Are they really that bad or am I over-reacting?
Bear in mind I am only in the very early stages of toying with the idea, and wouldn't want to go anywhere near test driving to find out until I had the money in my pocket and had decided I was going to buy somehting, if I was happy with it..
Makes my other option (replica chevy blocked Cobra) sound sensible..
Are they really that bad or am I over-reacting?
Bear in mind I am only in the very early stages of toying with the idea, and wouldn't want to go anywhere near test driving to find out until I had the money in my pocket and had decided I was going to buy somehting, if I was happy with it..
A properly sorted C3 is fine, the problem is a badly maintained one will have sloopy steering as they use what is called a "rag joint" in the sterring column which is basically a bit of canvas 
My 73 had about 45 degrees of free play in the steering wheel....it was a bit like a 1940's film with Cary Grant driving, where he does a lot os steering for a straight road!
My 73 had about 45 degrees of free play in the steering wheel....it was a bit like a 1940's film with Cary Grant driving, where he does a lot os steering for a straight road!
Having had a Camaro (1980 - one of the last of the proper big size cars)which had the steering box, and also having been out in a friends 80 Vette, I'd say it is a question of making sure it's a tight car, that's it, and it'll be fine. You do loose a little feel with the steering box, but not all. Steering boxes are adjustable, to take out wear, and since there are more ball joints, any play is amplified by the number of joints.
I've got a C4,a nd expected being in a C3 to be like climbing into a car that handled like an MGB or something else from a different era, they're not too bad if set up right. Agree looks are the best on these.
I've got a C4,a nd expected being in a C3 to be like climbing into a car that handled like an MGB or something else from a different era, they're not too bad if set up right. Agree looks are the best on these.
A well sorted C3 (ie in good condition) handles a lot better than the impression people give. A worn out one will, like any car, be horrible. The main causes of bad handling are worn steering, braking & suspension componants, along with the fitting of tyres not suited for good handling. Modern rubber (eg Pirelli) transforms them, as do low profiles on larger wheels. The two areas that were rubbish from the factory were the steering (ball & recirculating something) & the camber change on the rear wheels throughout the suspension movement. The camber change can be sorted easily (& fairly cheaply) by fitting Smart Struts, & there is a kit (Steeroids) which converts the steering to rack & pinion. Everybody that has fitted one says that it feels like driving a modern car. The steering in mine ('81) is in good condition (or so the seller said!) & cornering & steering response is fine. I've driven, or been a passenger in, more modern cars that are far worse (like a 911 that swapped ends on a wet road due to minor wear in the suspension). What I don't like with the C3 is that when driving down a straight road the steering wheel needs minor corrections to stay in a straight line when on a rough surface. It's not something that's a major problem, it's just annoying. Apparently it's normal for ball & recirculating whatever. Once I turn the wheel the car goes just where I point it & the steering feels confidence inspiring.
For unbiased(!) views of C3's (as it's mainly C4/5 & ZR1 in here), try this place:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3&page=1&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=70&daysprune=-1
An example of the "diabolical handling": When I got mine the trans (auto) didn't want to kickdown. I fiddled with it & one night got it working (the cable had been adjusted wrong). I was so happy that it was working & was experiencing my 1st feel of it under WOT in the low gears that I completely forgot about the sharp bend rapidly approaching. I know the bend well (including the fierce bump on the apex) & in over 25 years I've never taken it at more than 80mph on a bike that handles well. The original Vette speedo went up to a max reading of 85mph (due to some ridiculous US law) & the needle was up against the stop. I slammed on the brakes & then alomost immediately had to apply power to give me any chance of getting round the bend. As we went into the bend I was wondering if everybody would turn up to the funeral, but the Vette went round it without crossing the white line & without any feeling that it was going to leave the road, swap ends or generally do its best to kill me. I was impressed. I've been a passenger in a 928S on the same bend at 90mph & it was scary. Very. A local nutter took it at 100mph on a GPZ900R & it threw him off. C3 Vettes don't go round corners. Really?
C3 handling isn't anywhere near modern standards of handling, but it doesn't have to be as bad as people say. C3's with a composite rear spring are well worth looking at as the spring, combined with the correct shoks, transform the ride (hasn't the C6 got composite springs???). Old, rock hard tyres don't help the handling whatsoever, nor do wide tyres as they cause the car to follow tramlines & feel skittish on rough road surfaces. But they do look good There's plenty of stuff that improves the handling, including poly bushes, heavy duty this, that & the other (see www.vbandp.com/ ), but all I've needed is the stock front sway bar (no rear one), the stock composite rear spring, gas shoks all round (Spax), new tyres (OK, I admit it, I got the widest that'd fit & they ain't modern!) & everything else in good condition. Owners of modern stuff have been amazed at how well it goes round corners, as they've heard all the horror stories (I particularly enjoyed taking a Clarkson fan, who insisted that no American cars can go round corners, down the twisty bits! 
). With the (cheap) tyres I put on it I expected far worse handling than it's actually got. Last summer, in a mad moment, I stayed with an Elise late at night along a twisty road somewhere in Sussex. He wasn't hanging about, but the Vette stayed with it & if the handling was as bad as the stories say then I'd have ended the night in a ditch/hedge/tree. That was a fun drive It also handles far better than a '79 Saab turbo that I've got access to (that's a car that's got far to much performance for the handling abilities).
Best thing to do is get a test drive (or ride) in a sorted one (or talk to somebody like Corvette Kingdom). Then get a test in a bad one to see the difference that worn parts can make. The C3 is a car that you can spend money on to improve, if you like that sort of thing, rather than to just change the colour of the floor mats. I'm generally happy with the handling of mine (apart from the slight corrections needed to the steering in a straight line), what really lets the late C3 down is the power sapping approach to emmission controls done in that era (again, nothing that some money won't sort out!).
The C3 started off as the American Sports car, but during it's life it was bogged down by luxury items (all increasing the weight), soft springs, etc, etc as that's what the US buying public were demanding. It ended up as a luxury GT. Dropping the weight back off is no great problem (just ripping the entire aircon system out of mine made a big improvement in steering response). '79 was the heaviest C3 (not sure if the early big blocks weighed more, but they must have handling problems with all that weight up front?) & in '80 the C3 went on a diet, with a lot of weight being dropped for the '81 model.
My boss owns a Cobra replica with an SBC sitting in it. His impression of the handling: "It doesn't". His mechanic's impression of the handling "F***ing hell Paul, this thing's ****ing lethal, it goes like **** off a shovel & then the 1st bend you come to you'll **** your pants if you don't kill yourself first. Your Vette will p*** all over it in the bends & it'll wipe the floor with you on the straights". I wouldn't say no to it though
My wife has an MGB (a '67, not the handling impaired later rubber bumper version) & the handling of the C3 is far better.
The only car from the 70's I haven't been able to keep up with on the bends was a Lotus Esprit (but the Vette will still be out on the roads while that's being fixed
). A friend has a BMW from the 70's, one of only 500 shipped here (or made?) & it's supposed to be a factory special model. My Vette stays with it on straights & bends.
The play in the steering is marginally more than that of my Granada.
In short, you won't get modern handling (what affordable car of that age has?) but it's nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be.... as long as it's in good condition & the all important tyres are decent ones in decent condition.
A model worth looking at is the '82. It's got a bad rap due to the crossfire injection (ceasefire?), but it's got an OD trans fitted as standard on the auto models. The OD trans gives fuel economy that's actually bearable!
Last thought: For a little more than I paid for my C3, and a lot less than a C5 would cost me, I could have bought a Skyline GTR with uprated suspension, uprated turbos, uprated everything, that had awesome power & excellent handling. The owner says that it made his current (new) Skyline, & his previous one, seem like toys. He bought it for the performance & handling abilities (& to beat far more exotic stuff on track days - like C5s!), but for general use the suspension was so firm that it was rattling his teeth out on our public roads, the turbos were too fierce & he was worried about his teeth, spine & licence, so sold it. For high speed handling & bang for the buck that car would have taken some beating, so why do people buy used C5's when bargains like that are around? If a car handles well enough to cope with the way you drive it, then why worry about it?
For unbiased(!) views of C3's (as it's mainly C4/5 & ZR1 in here), try this place:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3&page=1&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=70&daysprune=-1
An example of the "diabolical handling": When I got mine the trans (auto) didn't want to kickdown. I fiddled with it & one night got it working (the cable had been adjusted wrong). I was so happy that it was working & was experiencing my 1st feel of it under WOT in the low gears that I completely forgot about the sharp bend rapidly approaching. I know the bend well (including the fierce bump on the apex) & in over 25 years I've never taken it at more than 80mph on a bike that handles well. The original Vette speedo went up to a max reading of 85mph (due to some ridiculous US law) & the needle was up against the stop. I slammed on the brakes & then alomost immediately had to apply power to give me any chance of getting round the bend. As we went into the bend I was wondering if everybody would turn up to the funeral, but the Vette went round it without crossing the white line & without any feeling that it was going to leave the road, swap ends or generally do its best to kill me. I was impressed. I've been a passenger in a 928S on the same bend at 90mph & it was scary. Very. A local nutter took it at 100mph on a GPZ900R & it threw him off. C3 Vettes don't go round corners. Really?
C3 handling isn't anywhere near modern standards of handling, but it doesn't have to be as bad as people say. C3's with a composite rear spring are well worth looking at as the spring, combined with the correct shoks, transform the ride (hasn't the C6 got composite springs???). Old, rock hard tyres don't help the handling whatsoever, nor do wide tyres as they cause the car to follow tramlines & feel skittish on rough road surfaces. But they do look good
There's plenty of stuff that improves the handling, including poly bushes, heavy duty this, that & the other (see www.vbandp.com/ ), but all I've needed is the stock front sway bar (no rear one), the stock composite rear spring, gas shoks all round (Spax), new tyres (OK, I admit it, I got the widest that'd fit & they ain't modern!) & everything else in good condition. Owners of modern stuff have been amazed at how well it goes round corners, as they've heard all the horror stories (I particularly enjoyed taking a Clarkson fan, who insisted that no American cars can go round corners, down the twisty bits! ). With the (cheap) tyres I put on it I expected far worse handling than it's actually got. Last summer, in a mad moment, I stayed with an Elise late at night along a twisty road somewhere in Sussex. He wasn't hanging about, but the Vette stayed with it & if the handling was as bad as the stories say then I'd have ended the night in a ditch/hedge/tree. That was a fun drive It also handles far better than a '79 Saab turbo that I've got access to (that's a car that's got far to much performance for the handling abilities). Best thing to do is get a test drive (or ride) in a sorted one (or talk to somebody like Corvette Kingdom). Then get a test in a bad one to see the difference that worn parts can make. The C3 is a car that you can spend money on to improve, if you like that sort of thing, rather than to just change the colour of the floor mats. I'm generally happy with the handling of mine (apart from the slight corrections needed to the steering in a straight line), what really lets the late C3 down is the power sapping approach to emmission controls done in that era (again, nothing that some money won't sort out!).
The C3 started off as the American Sports car, but during it's life it was bogged down by luxury items (all increasing the weight), soft springs, etc, etc as that's what the US buying public were demanding. It ended up as a luxury GT. Dropping the weight back off is no great problem (just ripping the entire aircon system out of mine made a big improvement in steering response). '79 was the heaviest C3 (not sure if the early big blocks weighed more, but they must have handling problems with all that weight up front?) & in '80 the C3 went on a diet, with a lot of weight being dropped for the '81 model.
My boss owns a Cobra replica with an SBC sitting in it. His impression of the handling: "It doesn't". His mechanic's impression of the handling "F***ing hell Paul, this thing's ****ing lethal, it goes like **** off a shovel & then the 1st bend you come to you'll **** your pants if you don't kill yourself first. Your Vette will p*** all over it in the bends & it'll wipe the floor with you on the straights". I wouldn't say no to it though
My wife has an MGB (a '67, not the handling impaired later rubber bumper version) & the handling of the C3 is far better.
The only car from the 70's I haven't been able to keep up with on the bends was a Lotus Esprit (but the Vette will still be out on the roads while that's being fixed
). A friend has a BMW from the 70's, one of only 500 shipped here (or made?) & it's supposed to be a factory special model. My Vette stays with it on straights & bends. The play in the steering is marginally more than that of my Granada.
In short, you won't get modern handling (what affordable car of that age has?) but it's nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be.... as long as it's in good condition & the all important tyres are decent ones in decent condition.
A model worth looking at is the '82. It's got a bad rap due to the crossfire injection (ceasefire?), but it's got an OD trans fitted as standard on the auto models. The OD trans gives fuel economy that's actually bearable!
Last thought: For a little more than I paid for my C3, and a lot less than a C5 would cost me, I could have bought a Skyline GTR with uprated suspension, uprated turbos, uprated everything, that had awesome power & excellent handling. The owner says that it made his current (new) Skyline, & his previous one, seem like toys. He bought it for the performance & handling abilities (& to beat far more exotic stuff on track days - like C5s!), but for general use the suspension was so firm that it was rattling his teeth out on our public roads, the turbos were too fierce & he was worried about his teeth, spine & licence, so sold it. For high speed handling & bang for the buck that car would have taken some beating, so why do people buy used C5's when bargains like that are around? If a car handles well enough to cope with the way you drive it, then why worry about it?
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