Discussion
Hi all,
I've looked at a couple of 997.2's recently and have a couple (three actually!) of questions if you have a min to share your thoughts please?
1. PDK on a 59 plate car, it has the paddles but I've heard here and there that the early PDK wasn't up to much, any truth in this or could it be referring to the buttons as opposed to the paddles..?
2. There's a dealer nr. Bishop's Stortford, Invictus Motors, they appear to specialise in Porsche, certainly had a few there, anyone have any experience of them? Seem like a good couple of guys with good reviews.
3. Anything in particular I need to look out for with a car that has 70 to 80k on it, other than service history?
Many thanks!
I've looked at a couple of 997.2's recently and have a couple (three actually!) of questions if you have a min to share your thoughts please?
1. PDK on a 59 plate car, it has the paddles but I've heard here and there that the early PDK wasn't up to much, any truth in this or could it be referring to the buttons as opposed to the paddles..?
2. There's a dealer nr. Bishop's Stortford, Invictus Motors, they appear to specialise in Porsche, certainly had a few there, anyone have any experience of them? Seem like a good couple of guys with good reviews.
3. Anything in particular I need to look out for with a car that has 70 to 80k on it, other than service history?
Many thanks!
Hi, I'm no expert, but I think if I was looking for a 997.2 of that vintage & mileage, I'd be looking for a manual car, probably a 3.6 C2 as they're the cheaper road tax & I'm a tight a**e !
I think PDK boxes are fine but if they go wrong & not under Porsche warranty, can't they be very expensive to fix, not sure whether they can be repaired now or is it a new box ?
Manual cars also seem to be rarer and becoming more sought after, I also noticed that Invictus have a C2/3.6 manual car showing on their website.
Good luck.
I think PDK boxes are fine but if they go wrong & not under Porsche warranty, can't they be very expensive to fix, not sure whether they can be repaired now or is it a new box ?
Manual cars also seem to be rarer and becoming more sought after, I also noticed that Invictus have a C2/3.6 manual car showing on their website.
Good luck.
12dan34 said:
Thanks, that was nagging me too re the pdk. Not sure if they all have launch control but those that have may well be starting to show their age.
Saw that one and liked it but really after black or dark blue, if poss.
Colour is a personal thing obviously, I'd avoid black as they're a pain to keep clean & show every scratch/swirl mark, beautiful when polished up, but for how long !! On the surface of it, that silver manual 997.2 C2 looks a good bet, it's had lots of money spent on it recently; not sure on the warranty Invictus offer, that might be worth checking. I personally think that silver, although not an exciting colour, is very easy to live with & hides light scratching & swirls really well; I'd put twin tailpipes on that C2 and maybe consider different wheels and I think you'd have a really nice car which should hold its value if looked after.Saw that one and liked it but really after black or dark blue, if poss.
If you're firm on specific colours, maybe mention to Invictus what you're looking for and they can let you know if anything is coming in. Good luck.
PDK in the 997.2 not as good as in later iterations. But what you've never had you don't miss maybe... PDK appears to be pretty bullet-proof but if it were to go wrong the bill would be sizeable. I wouldn't say a decent warranty is essential but for peace of mind it's not a bad idea.
Definitely consider a manual 3.6, however see if you can find one with PASM and PSE, makes a huge difference to the driving experience.
The 3.8 will have PASM as standard.
Not a lot of difference in performance on the road and the 3.6 is a sweet engine, especially combined with a manual ‘box.
Black / dark blue are a mare to keep looking good, summer or winter.
Also, get an inspection. These cars are getting to the stage where a lot of components have / are corroding. Especially suspension, heat shields, exhaust brackets, joints etc....easy to get a £3k bill.
All that said....great sports cars, a sweet spot for Porsche in the last 15 years.
The 3.8 will have PASM as standard.
Not a lot of difference in performance on the road and the 3.6 is a sweet engine, especially combined with a manual ‘box.
Black / dark blue are a mare to keep looking good, summer or winter.
Also, get an inspection. These cars are getting to the stage where a lot of components have / are corroding. Especially suspension, heat shields, exhaust brackets, joints etc....easy to get a £3k bill.
All that said....great sports cars, a sweet spot for Porsche in the last 15 years.
12dan34 said:
Ref the silver one that Carcrazypop mentions, that's just had £5k spent on clutch/flywheel etc (which makes it a good buy) but I wonder how much more costly pdk would be to fix..?? £5k is not cheap!
I think the £5k included other items on top of the clutch/flywheel, it mentions new coolant pipes & service so I think you'd need to see the invoice for a detailed cost breakdown.I owned a 997.2 C2 3.6 with PDK. It was better built than my prevous 996, but I didn't get on with it.
Mine had PDK with the paddle wheel (a must as the buttons are strange to use and different to practically every other manufacturer). However, it did not have either Sport Chrono or Sports mode, and consequently the shifts, though very smooth, were slow. No where near as responsive as my Golf R that I ran at the time too. For a 997.2 with PDK to be "exciting", in my opinion one must have either Sports Chrono or Sports mode. For OPC to retrofit Sports mode it was circa £900 IIRC (you need Combined switch - 997.613.557.01 A05 and Sport Retrofit - 997 044 903 02). You could consider COBB PDK remap, but that is not an option for the non-S cars (not sure why). In comparison the PDK on my 718 (with sports button standard, and no Chrono) is bloodly brilliant!!
Another point, my 997.2 was non-PASM on 19s. The ride was OK, but I always felt it was too high. I was going to have the suspension changed for RPM CSR/KW setup - that is a great package - but given the PDK was disappointing I decided not to bother.
So I decided to sell it and that then the x-over pipes started leaking ...
Mine had PDK with the paddle wheel (a must as the buttons are strange to use and different to practically every other manufacturer). However, it did not have either Sport Chrono or Sports mode, and consequently the shifts, though very smooth, were slow. No where near as responsive as my Golf R that I ran at the time too. For a 997.2 with PDK to be "exciting", in my opinion one must have either Sports Chrono or Sports mode. For OPC to retrofit Sports mode it was circa £900 IIRC (you need Combined switch - 997.613.557.01 A05 and Sport Retrofit - 997 044 903 02). You could consider COBB PDK remap, but that is not an option for the non-S cars (not sure why). In comparison the PDK on my 718 (with sports button standard, and no Chrono) is bloodly brilliant!!
Another point, my 997.2 was non-PASM on 19s. The ride was OK, but I always felt it was too high. I was going to have the suspension changed for RPM CSR/KW setup - that is a great package - but given the PDK was disappointing I decided not to bother.
So I decided to sell it and that then the x-over pipes started leaking ...
X-over pipes are the coolant pipes at the front. You can see where the rubber hoses meet the metal pipes on full steering lock of the front wheels. They weep then fail at joints/clips with the rubber hoses and you'll get coolant cust and smell. Have a look at this video at about 4 minutes ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhBQvIXFlM Generally its the hoses and clips that need replacing, but theres a lot of coolant.
I bought a 997.2 C4S last year with FSH from a well known Porsche specialist. Car is great - but I wish I’d taken undertrays off before I bought it to inspect. I sent it off for a precautionary dinitrol treatment and turns out a lot of the non body parts were corroded. Spent 4K on an under body refurb. Since then sorted a split vacuum pipe, one condenser, and then just servicing. It’s manual and I love it and I have to say can’t see the point of a PDK in an older 911 which is all about tactile analogue engagement and the manual is so much better for that.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
I bought a 997.2 C4S last year with FSH from a well known Porsche specialist. Car is great - but I wish I’d taken undertrays off before I bought it to inspect. I sent it off for a precautionary dinitrol treatment and turns out a lot of the non body parts were corroded. Spent 4K on an under body refurb. Since then sorted a split vacuum pipe, one condenser, and then just servicing. It’s manual and I love it and I have to say can’t see the point of a PDK in an older 911 which is all about tactile analogue engagement and the manual is so much better for that.
I think you could be forgive for not removing the undertrays Billy, not sure I've heard of anyone doing that, would a PPI even take those off? With the corrosion, do you mean suspension parts? Did you report this to the specialist, what was their view?I bought a 2010 3.6 and had to get a few things fixed which were due to corrosion
- over gearbox brake line £££ (got the clutch changed at the same time) (missed in PPI)
- other brake lines cleaned and protected £ (missed in PPI)
- front cross over coolant pipes ££ (picked up in PPI)
in my experience of buying (and looking), the corrosion is not great but on things like exhaust bolts, if the exhaust it not blowing, I don't think it's an issue - if you can get it done before you buy then great. In a PPI, as you say, if it's not on a ramp, they probably don't take of the under trays which is why the issues on mine weren't spotted.
Don't let it put you off, if you go in with your eyes open they are an awesome car and the 3.6 is plenty fast enough for me.
- over gearbox brake line £££ (got the clutch changed at the same time) (missed in PPI)
- other brake lines cleaned and protected £ (missed in PPI)
- front cross over coolant pipes ££ (picked up in PPI)
in my experience of buying (and looking), the corrosion is not great but on things like exhaust bolts, if the exhaust it not blowing, I don't think it's an issue - if you can get it done before you buy then great. In a PPI, as you say, if it's not on a ramp, they probably don't take of the under trays which is why the issues on mine weren't spotted.
Don't let it put you off, if you go in with your eyes open they are an awesome car and the 3.6 is plenty fast enough for me.
Edited by Bp8575 on Thursday 6th August 09:47
I have a 2009 C4S PDK.
Paddles vs buttons - I think Porsche had a good idea with the buttons and being able to shift up and down with both hands but it used to annoy me when you accidently upshift with your thumb in a tight turn. I switched to paddles (second hand wheel off ebay and abotu 20 minutes to swap whilst watching you tube videos on how to do it) and I have to admit, I have no regrets at all loosing the buttons nd all the controls on the wheel for those paddles.
PDK differences - latter PDK has launch control and maybe the clutch kick thing but that might only be on the GT3. I don't know of any real difference until you get much latter in the 991. I bought my car of a guy that ons a business that rebuild gearboxes and in 10 yers of PDK's he'd seen one failure.
PDK options - Sport Chrono brings the gearbox to life. Plus mode is track only - it downshifts whenever you let off the throttle as it assumes you must be on the brakes. It's good fun but I think a lot of people would change gear themselves at the track.
PDK servicing - from what I can tell there's two servicing options, change the clutch fluid and change the gearbox fluid. I've found conflicting advice abotut changing the gerbox fluid at 60k or 80k. Porsche Hatfield didn't have a clue. In the end I went for a full fluid change at 65k miles as a precaution. Personally I'd factor that in.
My biggest issues with corrosion at 70k+ miles was brake lines and o-ring on the thermostate housing (£10 o-ring and a LOT of labour).
Best upgrdes I've done are centre muffler delete for sound and RSS semi-solid engine mounts. Around £1k in total if DIY.
Paddles vs buttons - I think Porsche had a good idea with the buttons and being able to shift up and down with both hands but it used to annoy me when you accidently upshift with your thumb in a tight turn. I switched to paddles (second hand wheel off ebay and abotu 20 minutes to swap whilst watching you tube videos on how to do it) and I have to admit, I have no regrets at all loosing the buttons nd all the controls on the wheel for those paddles.
PDK differences - latter PDK has launch control and maybe the clutch kick thing but that might only be on the GT3. I don't know of any real difference until you get much latter in the 991. I bought my car of a guy that ons a business that rebuild gearboxes and in 10 yers of PDK's he'd seen one failure.
PDK options - Sport Chrono brings the gearbox to life. Plus mode is track only - it downshifts whenever you let off the throttle as it assumes you must be on the brakes. It's good fun but I think a lot of people would change gear themselves at the track.
PDK servicing - from what I can tell there's two servicing options, change the clutch fluid and change the gearbox fluid. I've found conflicting advice abotut changing the gerbox fluid at 60k or 80k. Porsche Hatfield didn't have a clue. In the end I went for a full fluid change at 65k miles as a precaution. Personally I'd factor that in.
My biggest issues with corrosion at 70k+ miles was brake lines and o-ring on the thermostate housing (£10 o-ring and a LOT of labour).
Best upgrdes I've done are centre muffler delete for sound and RSS semi-solid engine mounts. Around £1k in total if DIY.
Edited by markgsmith on Thursday 6th August 22:15
Edited by markgsmith on Thursday 6th August 22:16
golfer19 said:
I have a mate selling a lovely 2009 C2 PDK 3.8s with PSE.
55k miles and still has 8 months Porsche warranty
Buying with a warranty was one of the main reasons he bought the car from a private seller.
Where is he located, colour? Any other info?55k miles and still has 8 months Porsche warranty
Buying with a warranty was one of the main reasons he bought the car from a private seller.
Edited by golfer19 on Friday 7th August 22:26
Thank you.
12dan34 said:
golfer19 said:
I have a mate selling a lovely 2009 C2 PDK 3.8s with PSE.
55k miles and still has 8 months Porsche warranty
Buying with a warranty was one of the main reasons he bought the car from a private seller.
Where is he located, colour? Any other info?55k miles and still has 8 months Porsche warranty
Buying with a warranty was one of the main reasons he bought the car from a private seller.
Edited by golfer19 on Friday 7th August 22:26
Thank you.
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