Taking customer information to new employer
Discussion
My wife has been offered voluntary redundancy with a years pay, and may be able to walk into a job with a competitor. Are there any legal issues surrounding taking customer information with her to a new employer?
I’m not just referring to a list of her current customers, I’m talking data of her current employers selling prices, margins, future plans and current customer spending etc.
I’m sure everyone takes information with them to a new employer, but what is the legal stance, if any, if her current employer found out?
I’m not just referring to a list of her current customers, I’m talking data of her current employers selling prices, margins, future plans and current customer spending etc.
I’m sure everyone takes information with them to a new employer, but what is the legal stance, if any, if her current employer found out?
Edited by LeadFarmer on Tuesday 4th August 09:44
If you have to ask...
No
It will be clear as mud in her current employee handbook , if there is one, she probably has signed a non compete clause as well, whether that is enforceable is another thing
In reality it happens, ive seen it often with contacts, but it can end in tears and legal misery , or you can sail off into the happy sunset with her ex employer non the wiser
No
It will be clear as mud in her current employee handbook , if there is one, she probably has signed a non compete clause as well, whether that is enforceable is another thing
In reality it happens, ive seen it often with contacts, but it can end in tears and legal misery , or you can sail off into the happy sunset with her ex employer non the wiser
Some Gump said:
If I had a new hire that offered that, they wouldn't pass probation.
It'd be my order book walking out of the door on her next job change.
Indeed. We had someone join and they brought a copy of the tender and cost model from their last employer to one of our customers. The employee was told that we never wanted to see it and they should delete all and any material from their laptop.It'd be my order book walking out of the door on her next job change.
It's immoral, unethical and in breach of our employment contracts. I don't know if we reported it to their former employer, I wasn't that close to the followup.
Some Gump said:
If I had a new hire that offered that, they wouldn't pass probation.
It'd be my order book walking out of the door on her next job change.
Totally agree. Also word gets around, directors and business owners do "chat" to each other competitors or not. She can do it once but it will tar her going forward. It'd be my order book walking out of the door on her next job change.
She cant take anything, it belongs to the business BUT if she is good at her job and liked by her customers they may follow her, that's the customers choice, word just needs to get around of how to contact her, she cant tell the customers directly, but her new company can get word around, she can update linkedin etc.
It's very wrong to even contemplate doing this. I would expect anyone's basic moral compass to know this.......
I would suggest that people should be aware of the confidentiality bits of their current contract - most places have a fairly clear contract bit on confidentiality and it would likely be easily enforceable. Loose lips sink ships and all that....
Also, if a person is taking VR, I would expect one of the terms of the redundancy agreement to also relate to confidentiality to cover this exact case so you need to tread very carefully as if word got back they might be in a position to recover any extra redundancy package etc.
I would suggest that people should be aware of the confidentiality bits of their current contract - most places have a fairly clear contract bit on confidentiality and it would likely be easily enforceable. Loose lips sink ships and all that....
Also, if a person is taking VR, I would expect one of the terms of the redundancy agreement to also relate to confidentiality to cover this exact case so you need to tread very carefully as if word got back they might be in a position to recover any extra redundancy package etc.
LeadFarmer said:
My wife has been offered voluntary redundancy with a years pay, and may be able to walk into a job with a competitor. Are there any legal issues surrounding taking customer information with her to a new employer?
I’m not just referring to a list of her current customers, I’m talking data of her current employers selling prices, margins, future plans and current customer spending etc.
I’m sure everyone takes information with them to a new employer, but what is the legal stance, if any, if her current employer found out?
Really?? You are not truly serious? Are you??I’m not just referring to a list of her current customers, I’m talking data of her current employers selling prices, margins, future plans and current customer spending etc.
I’m sure everyone takes information with them to a new employer, but what is the legal stance, if any, if her current employer found out?
Edited by LeadFarmer on Tuesday 4th August 09:44
Is there anything wrong with it? Not at all it is perfectly fine and there is no way that the company could obtain an injunction against your wife...... There are not loads of cases about this and of course in not obtaining any injunction there would also not be huge legal costs which your wife would have to pay which could result in your house being sold to pay for them. Nope....Go for it.
Or, maybe not....
Or, maybe not....
Let me inject a slightly different tac.
If you're talking about a physical document that describes the things you mention then of course, this is illegal.
If you're talking about your wife using her knowledge of her current employers customers to leverage those customers away to her new employer then that is also illegal (although nothing stopping those customers coming to her new employer but this has to be of their own free will - and provable).
As mentioned, both of the above will (or should) be covered in her contract of employment.
I'd also suggest she carefully reviews the conditions of redundancy as it is highly likely that there will be some degree of restraint (gardening leave) in terms of the time before taking a new job in a similar / competing organisation (another can of worms).
However,
What cannot be (easily) legislated for is what is in her head. So if she knows that her old company charges £100 for something and the new company charges £120 for fundamentally the same thing, then it would be ludicrous to suggest that she wouldn't act upon this knowledge. You can't 'un-know' things and indeed, this is one of the reasons why companies hire people.
If you're talking about a physical document that describes the things you mention then of course, this is illegal.
If you're talking about your wife using her knowledge of her current employers customers to leverage those customers away to her new employer then that is also illegal (although nothing stopping those customers coming to her new employer but this has to be of their own free will - and provable).
As mentioned, both of the above will (or should) be covered in her contract of employment.
I'd also suggest she carefully reviews the conditions of redundancy as it is highly likely that there will be some degree of restraint (gardening leave) in terms of the time before taking a new job in a similar / competing organisation (another can of worms).
However,
What cannot be (easily) legislated for is what is in her head. So if she knows that her old company charges £100 for something and the new company charges £120 for fundamentally the same thing, then it would be ludicrous to suggest that she wouldn't act upon this knowledge. You can't 'un-know' things and indeed, this is one of the reasons why companies hire people.
Some Gump said:
If I had a new hire that offered that, they wouldn't pass probation.
It'd be my order book walking out of the door on her next job change.
Yep.It'd be my order book walking out of the door on her next job change.
Another thing to consider is that any Company scummy enough to hire people who behave in the way the OP is asking is also likely to screw its own Employees if and when the need arises.
Jasandjules said:
Is there anything wrong with it? Not at all it is perfectly fine and there is no way that the company could obtain an injunction against your wife...... There are not loads of cases about this and of course in not obtaining any injunction there would also not be huge legal costs which your wife would have to pay which could result in your house being sold to pay for them. Nope....Go for it.
Or, maybe not....
OP ^^^ this.Or, maybe not....
Also, if you think it only happens at the boardroom level then...
I have taken information previously but purely for me to use.
I would never share this with anyone especially my boss due to them possibly taking a dim view as to you as an employee
However I never found myself using the data or needing it as you realize how quickly it goes out of date
I would never share this with anyone especially my boss due to them possibly taking a dim view as to you as an employee
However I never found myself using the data or needing it as you realize how quickly it goes out of date
StevieBee said:
As mentioned, both of the above will (or should) be covered in her contract of employment.
What cannot be (easily) legislated for is what is in her head. So if she knows that her old company charges £100 for something and the new company charges £120 for fundamentally the same thing, then it would be ludicrous to suggest that she wouldn't act upon this knowledge. You can't 'un-know' things and indeed, this is one of the reasons why companies hire people.
Well, the courts take such a laissez-faire approach to this issue that they imply into all contracts a term regarding this type of information. What cannot be (easily) legislated for is what is in her head. So if she knows that her old company charges £100 for something and the new company charges £120 for fundamentally the same thing, then it would be ludicrous to suggest that she wouldn't act upon this knowledge. You can't 'un-know' things and indeed, this is one of the reasons why companies hire people.
If say pricing data at a company changed following a new employee starting, how do you think the courts would view it? Give due consideration to the fact that if there is no express term in your contract of employment the court will automatically deem it implied and thus part of your contract of employment, which you have then breached....
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: This is a weird thread.
It's your wife so I get that you want to phrase it the way you have but might as well call the thread "Is stealing OK and would you employ a thief?".
I read it as "I want my wife to make loads of commission this year soooo can she undermine her previous employer to do it???"It's your wife so I get that you want to phrase it the way you have but might as well call the thread "Is stealing OK and would you employ a thief?".
TwistingMyMelon said:
If you have to ask...
No
It will be clear as mud in her current employee handbook , if there is one, she probably has signed a non compete clause as well, whether that is enforceable is another thing
In reality it happens, ive seen it often with contacts, but it can end in tears and legal misery , or you can sail off into the happy sunset with her ex employer non the wiser
Most redundancy packages involve a payment for legal advice, that’s simply there to make the contract and terms enforceable. It’s generally clauses aren’t normally enforceable but with demonstrable legal advice that position changes.No
It will be clear as mud in her current employee handbook , if there is one, she probably has signed a non compete clause as well, whether that is enforceable is another thing
In reality it happens, ive seen it often with contacts, but it can end in tears and legal misery , or you can sail off into the happy sunset with her ex employer non the wiser
OP, in addition to the wise and sensible comments already made above, your wife needs to know that stealing from a database could be a criminal offence.
You could also try discussing with your wife some basics of personal honesty and ethics, but it may be too late for that. At least you had the sense to ask here before she went and committed a bunch of civil wrongs and maybe a criminal offence or two.
The common law on this subject developed in Victorian times, and is based on simple and still valid concepts of fair and honest dealing. If your wife cannot see that what she planned to do would not be fair and honest, she has a problem.
There have been a zillion cases since Faccenda Chicken in the 1980s, but that case still provides a good basic summary of the principles. Note that in that case there was no express confidentiality agreement, and so the case is about the implied term, but in many employments there will be an express agreement.
One of the key developments since Faccenda Chicken has been the advent of the European Database Right, a form of intellectual property now embedded in domestic statute law.
https://swarb.co.uk/faccenda-chicken-ltd-v-fowler-...
You could also try discussing with your wife some basics of personal honesty and ethics, but it may be too late for that. At least you had the sense to ask here before she went and committed a bunch of civil wrongs and maybe a criminal offence or two.
The common law on this subject developed in Victorian times, and is based on simple and still valid concepts of fair and honest dealing. If your wife cannot see that what she planned to do would not be fair and honest, she has a problem.
There have been a zillion cases since Faccenda Chicken in the 1980s, but that case still provides a good basic summary of the principles. Note that in that case there was no express confidentiality agreement, and so the case is about the implied term, but in many employments there will be an express agreement.
One of the key developments since Faccenda Chicken has been the advent of the European Database Right, a form of intellectual property now embedded in domestic statute law.
https://swarb.co.uk/faccenda-chicken-ltd-v-fowler-...
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