Do PHEVs make sense for private buyers?
Discussion
Not in the market right now myself (probably going to go with a cheap diesel for now) but I'm curious about how much sense the latest wave of PHEVs makes for private buyers? My understanding is that the BIK rates for company car drivers are much more favourable than for diesels, hence the BMW 330e has become the "new" 320d and the Golf GTE has become the new Golf GTD for instance.
Ideally, in an ideal world, I'd have a small electric car for commuting/local journeys (something like the new Honda-e would be perfect) and something larger and a little bit special with a big petrol engine for those longer journeys where an EV would be impractical. I know that there are bigger, more expensive EVs with bigger ranges but aside from a Taycan possibly, these massive 2+ tonne SUEVs hold no appeal for me when they still have limitations on longer journeys that a cheaper ICE-powered equivalent would not have. I have a few friends who are EV converts and they work well for them and I do see the appeal but I just don't see how they are practical for me right now, as I have to take occasional but regular long journeys where an EV would be impractical due to range and charging times and I need one car that will work for all my journeys.
In reality though, for many (including myself), two cars for my personal use isn't really justifiable, so does a PHEV hold the solution? I like the idea of being able to commute short distances on electric alone and for sitting in traffic/driving in cities, it's a no-brainer, why would you want to sit there with the engine running wasting money and destroying the air quality? You also want to be able to charge from home (which I can) but if you only have street parking, that's not so easy and if you fail to keep the battery topped up, that's a lot of dead weight, which will no doubt make the car more expensive to run than a regular diesel (as well as being more expensive to buy in the first place).
So, what I'm curious to know from those who have owned/lived with PHEVs is, are they cheaper to run than an equivalent diesel (take my example of BMW 330e vs. 320d and Golf GTE vs. GTD, although other PHEVs are available and indeed may even be better) and are they as nice to drive as the "performance" petrol equivalent, say BMW 340i or Golf GTI in this instance? I also wonder whether you need to be running with both powertrains to achieve good performance i.e. is performance a bit limp in EV or ICE mode only and how badly does the extra weight affect the handling, ride and agility of these cars vs. their ICE equivalents?
Again, budget dictates that I stick with a cheap diesel for now but a PHEV, particularly the two mentioned (BMW 330e/Golf GTE) could be a viable option as my next car, as my usual commute is potentially doable on EV alone but it would also not inconvenience me on the longer trips that I have to take for work around about once per month and longer trips with the family.
Ideally, in an ideal world, I'd have a small electric car for commuting/local journeys (something like the new Honda-e would be perfect) and something larger and a little bit special with a big petrol engine for those longer journeys where an EV would be impractical. I know that there are bigger, more expensive EVs with bigger ranges but aside from a Taycan possibly, these massive 2+ tonne SUEVs hold no appeal for me when they still have limitations on longer journeys that a cheaper ICE-powered equivalent would not have. I have a few friends who are EV converts and they work well for them and I do see the appeal but I just don't see how they are practical for me right now, as I have to take occasional but regular long journeys where an EV would be impractical due to range and charging times and I need one car that will work for all my journeys.
In reality though, for many (including myself), two cars for my personal use isn't really justifiable, so does a PHEV hold the solution? I like the idea of being able to commute short distances on electric alone and for sitting in traffic/driving in cities, it's a no-brainer, why would you want to sit there with the engine running wasting money and destroying the air quality? You also want to be able to charge from home (which I can) but if you only have street parking, that's not so easy and if you fail to keep the battery topped up, that's a lot of dead weight, which will no doubt make the car more expensive to run than a regular diesel (as well as being more expensive to buy in the first place).
So, what I'm curious to know from those who have owned/lived with PHEVs is, are they cheaper to run than an equivalent diesel (take my example of BMW 330e vs. 320d and Golf GTE vs. GTD, although other PHEVs are available and indeed may even be better) and are they as nice to drive as the "performance" petrol equivalent, say BMW 340i or Golf GTI in this instance? I also wonder whether you need to be running with both powertrains to achieve good performance i.e. is performance a bit limp in EV or ICE mode only and how badly does the extra weight affect the handling, ride and agility of these cars vs. their ICE equivalents?
Again, budget dictates that I stick with a cheap diesel for now but a PHEV, particularly the two mentioned (BMW 330e/Golf GTE) could be a viable option as my next car, as my usual commute is potentially doable on EV alone but it would also not inconvenience me on the longer trips that I have to take for work around about once per month and longer trips with the family.
Don't a lot of these cars such as the Misubishi Outlander PHEV only do around 10 miles on battery power. Surely this is far outweighed by the reduction in fuel economy due to having to drag all those batteries and motors around when running on the engine?
Be amazed if the sums stack up long term.
Be amazed if the sums stack up long term.
The Outlander is just a tax dodge I’d discount that as a private buyer, if buying new. It’s not supposed to be particularly economical.
We’ve had a Golf GTE and we love it. For our lifestyle (low mileage day to day, a trip or two to France each year) it is perfect. Around town it’s faster than most off the line and you appreciate the petrol engine more the rare times that you do need it. On a long A road run I get diesel rivalling MPG but on the motorway I’d say it’s definitely closer to what a Golf GTI would get.
I’m trying to find our next car and would defo go PHEV again. If only BMW did a 530e Touring.
We’ve had a Golf GTE and we love it. For our lifestyle (low mileage day to day, a trip or two to France each year) it is perfect. Around town it’s faster than most off the line and you appreciate the petrol engine more the rare times that you do need it. On a long A road run I get diesel rivalling MPG but on the motorway I’d say it’s definitely closer to what a Golf GTI would get.
I’m trying to find our next car and would defo go PHEV again. If only BMW did a 530e Touring.
I had a 2014 outlander PHEV. Ran it from new for 3 years.
My daily commute was about 25 Miles and it could just manage this on electricity so I used no petrol during the week.
Weekend runnning about was done mainly on electricity so again very little petrol used.
If I went on a long journey it returned somewhere between 35 mpg and 40mpg.
I could go weeks without using the petrol engine so if your journey profile suits a PHEV then they make sense for you. If your journey profile is mainly journeys over the battery range then they do not make sense for you.
My daily commute was about 25 Miles and it could just manage this on electricity so I used no petrol during the week.
Weekend runnning about was done mainly on electricity so again very little petrol used.
If I went on a long journey it returned somewhere between 35 mpg and 40mpg.
I could go weeks without using the petrol engine so if your journey profile suits a PHEV then they make sense for you. If your journey profile is mainly journeys over the battery range then they do not make sense for you.
Joey Deacon said:
Don't a lot of these cars such as the Misubishi Outlander PHEV only do around 10 miles on battery power. Surely this is far outweighed by the reduction in fuel economy due to having to drag all those batteries and motors around when running on the engine?
Be amazed if the sums stack up long term.
Mine did about 25 miles on battery and achieved 35 to 40 mpg at motorway speeds with a depleted battery. Be amazed if the sums stack up long term.
Joey Deacon said:
Don't a lot of these cars such as the Misubishi Outlander PHEV only do around 10 miles on battery power.
Outlander should do 25-30miles used to get 50km (summer) city driving from mine and that wasnt shiny new.if you charge them often/overnight then you can make great use out of them I used to get 2500-3000km out of a tank of 35L of fuel. And it wasnt bad on highways too.
But it does have a relatively large battery compared to most.
I did (pre Covid) 70 miles a day in a Vauxhall Ampera. Realistic 30-40 miles pure EV range and I could charge at work for free. The engine is a generator, so it's always driven by the Electric motor, which IMO is a superior drivetrain to most other PHEVs (Outlander aside). The main point being the ICE doesn't have to kick in at high speeds or acceleration.
The Ampera was a massively over priced Vauxhall, circa £34k brand new. 3 years old it was just £12k. Costs me £1.50 to charge (soon to be £0.50p), and charging is free. 70 miles for £1.50, bargain.
A few other PHEVs have 10kWh battery now, like the Kia Optima, and the latest BMW PHEVs seem to be getting far better range than the previous generation.
The Ampera was a massively over priced Vauxhall, circa £34k brand new. 3 years old it was just £12k. Costs me £1.50 to charge (soon to be £0.50p), and charging is free. 70 miles for £1.50, bargain.
A few other PHEVs have 10kWh battery now, like the Kia Optima, and the latest BMW PHEVs seem to be getting far better range than the previous generation.
Economy will obviously depend on distance of regular journeys, charging frequency (and cost) and how it's driven. I have a Passat GTE and pre lockdown used to fill up every 3 weeks at around £60 doing 80 miles a day. Since lockdown (late march), I've done 750 miles on mostly electric (local trips). I've been stuck with a full tank of petrol for the last 4 months!
Example of efficiency, 40 miles into office, mostly motorway and 40 miles back. I'd get around 80-90 mpg for the round trip. Do a longer journey (200+ miles) with a full battery and you'll see around 60mpg. With an empty battery it'll be around 40-45mpg.
If in current circumstances you'll be doing more local trips than longer trips then a PHEV sounds ideal for you, providing you can charge at home. On my tariff, a full charge costs about £1.20 and if I drive pure electric would get me about 20 miles (despite what the computer and official figures claim, i.e. more than 20). So at 6p per mile, it's still cheaper than an ICE car.
There are other advantages to a PHEV/EV than fuel economy though. Pre heat/cool is the big one. My favourite feature by far.
Example of efficiency, 40 miles into office, mostly motorway and 40 miles back. I'd get around 80-90 mpg for the round trip. Do a longer journey (200+ miles) with a full battery and you'll see around 60mpg. With an empty battery it'll be around 40-45mpg.
If in current circumstances you'll be doing more local trips than longer trips then a PHEV sounds ideal for you, providing you can charge at home. On my tariff, a full charge costs about £1.20 and if I drive pure electric would get me about 20 miles (despite what the computer and official figures claim, i.e. more than 20). So at 6p per mile, it's still cheaper than an ICE car.
There are other advantages to a PHEV/EV than fuel economy though. Pre heat/cool is the big one. My favourite feature by far.
It made sense for me a couple of months back. We drive locally (say 10-20 miles max) a few times a week. Further than that probably once or twice a month on average. I didn't want an SUV but wanted a good sized family estate. No BEVs are estates (yet). So I bought a Passat GTE. I filled it with petrol the day I bought it. It still shows full on the gauge. As expected it covers all our round-town usage on battery.
SiL got one, a Kia Optima sportswagon looks smart, big car.
She's got a charger at work and a 45km commute. Plugs it in on both ends and does her entire commute on the battery.
She's not impressed by the tech in the car (infotainment, adaptive cruise), but really sold on the idea that she can do almost all her journeys on battery power.
I know a couple of people that say their next car is possibly going to be a BEV, PHEV is a stepping stone for a lot of people as they can see they can do 95%+ of their journeys on a tiny battery.
She's got a charger at work and a 45km commute. Plugs it in on both ends and does her entire commute on the battery.
She's not impressed by the tech in the car (infotainment, adaptive cruise), but really sold on the idea that she can do almost all her journeys on battery power.
I know a couple of people that say their next car is possibly going to be a BEV, PHEV is a stepping stone for a lot of people as they can see they can do 95%+ of their journeys on a tiny battery.
I’m with you OP, I like the idea of them but I do a weekly 100 mile each way trip to the office so only a diesel makes sense for me.
The wife’s looking at swapping her diesel SUV for an electric car as she only does short trips, school runs, etc. The cost of plug-ins and full electrics are that high that it’s way cheaper to get a petrol car.
Until the cost of them come down they make no sense to either of us.
The FIL has recently got a plug in Range Rover Sport, again, it doesn’t make sense, £100k for a car where the diesel equivalent would have been considerably cheaper. He only does short journeys so it always runs on the electric but still you’d have to do a lot of miles for it to work out cheaper. He’s a private buyer, bought it because he wanted it.
The wife’s looking at swapping her diesel SUV for an electric car as she only does short trips, school runs, etc. The cost of plug-ins and full electrics are that high that it’s way cheaper to get a petrol car.
Until the cost of them come down they make no sense to either of us.
The FIL has recently got a plug in Range Rover Sport, again, it doesn’t make sense, £100k for a car where the diesel equivalent would have been considerably cheaper. He only does short journeys so it always runs on the electric but still you’d have to do a lot of miles for it to work out cheaper. He’s a private buyer, bought it because he wanted it.
RammyMP said:
I’m with you OP, I like the idea of them but I do a weekly 100 mile each way trip to the office so only a diesel makes sense for me.
The wife’s looking at swapping her diesel SUV for an electric car as she only does short trips, school runs, etc. The cost of plug-ins and full electrics are that high that it’s way cheaper to get a petrol car.
Until the cost of them come down they make no sense to either of us.
The FIL has recently got a plug in Range Rover Sport, again, it doesn’t make sense, £100k for a car where the diesel equivalent would have been considerably cheaper. He only does short journeys so it always runs on the electric but still you’d have to do a lot of miles for it to work out cheaper. He’s a private buyer, bought it because he wanted it.
I agree on the pricing. I bought ours as I want to run on electric not because it makes financial sense. But if financial sense was the only criteria for buying a car we'd all be driving little eco-boxesThe wife’s looking at swapping her diesel SUV for an electric car as she only does short trips, school runs, etc. The cost of plug-ins and full electrics are that high that it’s way cheaper to get a petrol car.
Until the cost of them come down they make no sense to either of us.
The FIL has recently got a plug in Range Rover Sport, again, it doesn’t make sense, £100k for a car where the diesel equivalent would have been considerably cheaper. He only does short journeys so it always runs on the electric but still you’d have to do a lot of miles for it to work out cheaper. He’s a private buyer, bought it because he wanted it.
I looked at this very recently,
My wife wanted a Mini Countryman and I considered both the plug in hybrid Cooper-S and the traditional petrol Cooper-S. I looked at the figures and what we could get for the budget and we chose petrol, the hybrid would have had 30'000 more miles than a petrol version and would have been 18months older for the same so we opted for a petrol version with circa 8000 miles on the clock and just over 12 months manufacturer warranty still on it.
The hybrid was also pushing £2000 more initial cost.
The wife will drive it in the main on a round trip of about 10 miles so a hybrid would in theory do the whole journey on electric but It didn't seem worth while all things considered this time around.
My wife wanted a Mini Countryman and I considered both the plug in hybrid Cooper-S and the traditional petrol Cooper-S. I looked at the figures and what we could get for the budget and we chose petrol, the hybrid would have had 30'000 more miles than a petrol version and would have been 18months older for the same so we opted for a petrol version with circa 8000 miles on the clock and just over 12 months manufacturer warranty still on it.
The hybrid was also pushing £2000 more initial cost.
The wife will drive it in the main on a round trip of about 10 miles so a hybrid would in theory do the whole journey on electric but It didn't seem worth while all things considered this time around.
Jamescrs said:
I looked at this very recently,
My wife wanted a Mini Countryman and I considered both the plug in hybrid Cooper-S and the traditional petrol Cooper-S. I looked at the figures and what we could get for the budget and we chose petrol, the hybrid would have had 30'000 more miles than a petrol version and would have been 18months older for the same so we opted for a petrol version with circa 8000 miles on the clock and just over 12 months manufacturer warranty still on it.
The hybrid was also pushing £2000 more initial cost.
The wife will drive it in the main on a round trip of about 10 miles so a hybrid would in theory do the whole journey on electric but It didn't seem worth while all things considered this time around.
We had a plug-in Countryman for the weekend, the electric range was about 20 miles. I wasn’t that impressed to be honest. We took it on long run of about 100 miles, after the electric ran out it averaged about 50 mpg which I didn’t think was too bad but I bet you could get better with the diesel and about 40 mpg with the petrol. Like you say, with the initial uplift in cost it’s not really worth it.My wife wanted a Mini Countryman and I considered both the plug in hybrid Cooper-S and the traditional petrol Cooper-S. I looked at the figures and what we could get for the budget and we chose petrol, the hybrid would have had 30'000 more miles than a petrol version and would have been 18months older for the same so we opted for a petrol version with circa 8000 miles on the clock and just over 12 months manufacturer warranty still on it.
The hybrid was also pushing £2000 more initial cost.
The wife will drive it in the main on a round trip of about 10 miles so a hybrid would in theory do the whole journey on electric but It didn't seem worth while all things considered this time around.
RammyMP said:
I’m with you OP, I like the idea of them but I do a weekly 100 mile each way trip to the office so only a diesel makes sense for me.
The wife’s looking at swapping her diesel SUV for an electric car as she only does short trips, school runs, etc. The cost of plug-ins and full electrics are that high that it’s way cheaper to get a petrol car.
Until the cost of them come down they make no sense to either of us.
The FIL has recently got a plug in Range Rover Sport, again, it doesn’t make sense, £100k for a car where the diesel equivalent would have been considerably cheaper. He only does short journeys so it always runs on the electric but still you’d have to do a lot of miles for it to work out cheaper. He’s a private buyer, bought it because he wanted it.
Used BEVs are relatively expensive to buy, but you should notice that they have barely depreciated at all over the last few years. The wife’s looking at swapping her diesel SUV for an electric car as she only does short trips, school runs, etc. The cost of plug-ins and full electrics are that high that it’s way cheaper to get a petrol car.
Until the cost of them come down they make no sense to either of us.
The FIL has recently got a plug in Range Rover Sport, again, it doesn’t make sense, £100k for a car where the diesel equivalent would have been considerably cheaper. He only does short journeys so it always runs on the electric but still you’d have to do a lot of miles for it to work out cheaper. He’s a private buyer, bought it because he wanted it.
A comparable petrol car bought at half the price has cost a few grand in fuel, tax and repairs in that time, and has halved in value as well.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff