Do you think F1 has a future in this world? It is so niche
Discussion
It is pretty clear F1 has had quite a big decline in popularity over the last decade or so (largely due to the move to Sky) and cannot attract new fans to the sport, what type of new fan will be enthralled by the commentators speaking about overly complicated tyre regulations? F1 has become far too technical and forgotten about entertainment.
I don't know a single person who watches F1 which is a huge difference to 10-15 years ago when the top F1 drivers were household names, and many many causal people would watch F1 on a Sunday. F1 has truly become a niche and left the mainstream.
Things like the overly complicated tyre regulations, DRS, simply create a barrier to entry for causal fans because they are too difficult to understand. It's not like watching football or tennis which anyone can watch and be caught up on all the rules in half an hour. This only cements F1's place as a very niche sport.
Motorsports globally are seeing a big decline, not just F1 but also Nascar, Indycar, V8 Supercars and DTM. I guess you might be able to say Formula E is an exception, but I suspect they are simply drawing fans from the F1 audience rather than attracting new people to motorsport.
Can F1 buck the trend and have a future? Or will it be lost to history? Or simply become a smaller and smaller niche as it gradually loses existing fans?
I do recognise this post is very UK-centric, I would be curious to know if F1 has seen a decline in other markets too.
I don't know a single person who watches F1 which is a huge difference to 10-15 years ago when the top F1 drivers were household names, and many many causal people would watch F1 on a Sunday. F1 has truly become a niche and left the mainstream.
Things like the overly complicated tyre regulations, DRS, simply create a barrier to entry for causal fans because they are too difficult to understand. It's not like watching football or tennis which anyone can watch and be caught up on all the rules in half an hour. This only cements F1's place as a very niche sport.
Motorsports globally are seeing a big decline, not just F1 but also Nascar, Indycar, V8 Supercars and DTM. I guess you might be able to say Formula E is an exception, but I suspect they are simply drawing fans from the F1 audience rather than attracting new people to motorsport.
Can F1 buck the trend and have a future? Or will it be lost to history? Or simply become a smaller and smaller niche as it gradually loses existing fans?
I do recognise this post is very UK-centric, I would be curious to know if F1 has seen a decline in other markets too.
sociopath said:
You cant take the uk sky model and apply it to F1 everywhere.
liberty have an aim to keep it free to air and it is in a lot of other countries.
Its hardly a niche sport, either in terms of audience or spend/profit
Yes, I recognised this point in my post. But I am quite sure that the UK is F1's largest market. liberty have an aim to keep it free to air and it is in a lot of other countries.
Its hardly a niche sport, either in terms of audience or spend/profit
Unfortunately F1 does not release viewing figures for specific market (I wonder why).
It sounds sad but I do generally worry at times about the future of motorsport. It’s one of my few passions in life and I can see a future (in my lifetime) where it might be all but gone. I really hope that Sky decide that F1 isn’t economically worth it and sell the rights back. It’s now in a place where only enthusiasts can watch it. Since you have to pay extra, on top of a sky sports subscription, there is no way for the casual viewer to drop in. I don’t pay it because I’m only interested in the F1. I would watch the cricket when I have time and a bit of the footie, but I haven’t got the spare time in the week.
Add on top of that the threat of climate change. I really hope they can make these proposed two strokes work or come up with something else revolutionary which isn’t batteries and electric motors.
And what about other forms of motorsport. I’ve been going to race circuits since I was literally a few weeks old, and they would be a very different place without the sound of an ICE. Will we still be able to race classics? Club motorsport is already so expensive, which is a big barrier to entry, and this is only going to get exacerbated by dwindling interest.
Add on top of that the threat of climate change. I really hope they can make these proposed two strokes work or come up with something else revolutionary which isn’t batteries and electric motors.
And what about other forms of motorsport. I’ve been going to race circuits since I was literally a few weeks old, and they would be a very different place without the sound of an ICE. Will we still be able to race classics? Club motorsport is already so expensive, which is a big barrier to entry, and this is only going to get exacerbated by dwindling interest.
DOCG said:
It is pretty clear F1 has had quite a big decline in popularity over the last decade or so
(...)
I don't know a single person who watches F1 which is a huge difference to 10-15 years ago
Do you have any data globally that supports this? I am not saying you're wrong but it would be interesting to see some numbers. (...)
I don't know a single person who watches F1 which is a huge difference to 10-15 years ago
DOCG said:
Yes, I recognised this point in my post. But I am quite sure that the UK is F1's largest market.
It's big and historically, possibly the most important market but this is changing with everything else. It's growing in popularity in a lot of regions; Middle East, Near East, Asia and elsewhere.F1 has always been 'niche'. One could even argue that its problems (if we are to believe it has any) is rooted in a desire to transition it to a more populist offer.
All Sky has done is dispense with the casual viewer who'd watch largely because nothing else was on. Like everything else on the telly, it has to complete with a host of other things, not just what's on four other channels.
Commercially, mass numbers watching is no longer needed. Today, marketing is all about precise targeting and a smaller but well defined audience is more valuable than a large one that isn't as precisely defined. That's why there's few consumer brands in the sport today.
F1 is here for a long while yet. It will evolve and change as it always has done.
DOCG said:
HardtopManual said:
Nope, F1 is bigger in Brazil, China, Germany, USA and Italy than it is in the UK.
Do you have a source? I am quite sure you are wrong about the USA and China. formula1.com said:
As they were last year, the top five markets by cumulative audience are Brazil, Germany, Italy, UK and the Netherlands, all with audiences higher than 100m. among the top 20 markets, meanwhile, there have been exceptional increases; in Poland (+256%) and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region (+228%,) mostly driven respectively by new contract arrangements and Robert Kubica’s return to F1, and the new agreement signed in 2019 with MBC Group. Greece (+75%), the Netherlands (+56%), Italy (+29%) and Germany (+23%) were the countries with the highest increases, while the audience continues to grow in the United States (+7%) and in China (+5%).
In terms of unique viewers, during 2019 the sport remained stable in the top 20 markets at 405.5m (+0.3%), while there was a slight decrease globally (-3.9%), with the overall number of viewers standing at 471m. Brazil, China, Germany, USA and Italy are the five markets with the highest reach.
In terms of unique viewers, during 2019 the sport remained stable in the top 20 markets at 405.5m (+0.3%), while there was a slight decrease globally (-3.9%), with the overall number of viewers standing at 471m. Brazil, China, Germany, USA and Italy are the five markets with the highest reach.
So I'm guessing that's implying is that lots of Americans and Chinese watch their home races but that's it, whereas far more people in the UK watch the whole season. Still the UK isn't in the top three by either metric.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 6th August 20:05
nickfrog said:
Do you have any data globally that supports this? I am not saying you're wrong but it would be interesting to see some numbers.
According to Forbes it lost 20 million unique viewers last year, and 129 million since 2008. https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2020/01/21/f1s-...
kambites said:
So I'm guessing that's implying is that lots of Americans and Chinese watch their home races but that's it, whereas far more people in the UK watch the whole season. Still the UK isn't in the top three by either metric.
https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/f1-tv-ratings-2019-digital-social-media-figuresEdited by kambites on Thursday 6th August 20:05
"The top five markets were once again Brazil, Germany, Italy, the UK and the Netherlands," It seems we have some conflicting sources, my guess is there is dispersion based on how it is measured. The UK probably has more cumulative viewers but fewer unique viewers.
DOCG said:
nickfrog said:
Do you have any data globally that supports this? I am not saying you're wrong but it would be interesting to see some numbers.
According to Forbes it lost 20 million unique viewers last year, and 129 million since 2008. https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2020/01/21/f1s-...
The UK viewer situation is almost irrelevant in terms of the overall business strategy of Liberty and it's only so low here because the Sky deal makes viewing extortionate. Liberty have already said they would change the deal but cannot - it was signed ahead of them taking over.
Whether or not (or how) F1 has a future is interesting... But let's not make debate that by pointing at skewed viewing figures and especially not by looking at UK viewership and projecting that to the rest of the planet. We've definitely had that thread before a few times
TheDeuce said:
bottom line = the sport moved to pay toward view and obviously lost a lot of viewers... Now, under new ownership it is clawing back a little - that is actually quite positive.
The UK viewer situation is almost irrelevant in terms of the overall business strategy of Liberty and it's only so low here because the Sky deal makes viewing extortionate. Liberty have already said they would change the deal but cannot - it was signed ahead of them taking over.
Whether or not (or how) F1 has a future is interesting... But let's not make debate that by pointing at skewed viewing figures and especially not by looking at UK viewership and projecting that to the rest of the planet. We've definitely had that thread before a few times
The post you quoted was about global figures, not UK ones. The UK viewer situation is almost irrelevant in terms of the overall business strategy of Liberty and it's only so low here because the Sky deal makes viewing extortionate. Liberty have already said they would change the deal but cannot - it was signed ahead of them taking over.
Whether or not (or how) F1 has a future is interesting... But let's not make debate that by pointing at skewed viewing figures and especially not by looking at UK viewership and projecting that to the rest of the planet. We've definitely had that thread before a few times
Nampahc Niloc said:
It sounds sad but I do generally worry at times about the future of motorsport. It’s one of my few passions in life and I can see a future (in my lifetime) where it might be all but gone. I really hope that Sky decide that F1 isn’t economically worth it and sell the rights back. It’s now in a place where only enthusiasts can watch it. Since you have to pay extra, on top of a sky sports subscription, there is no way for the casual viewer to drop in. I don’t pay it because I’m only interested in the F1. I would watch the cricket when I have time and a bit of the footie, but I haven’t got the spare time in the week.
Add on top of that the threat of climate change. I really hope they can make these proposed two strokes work or come up with something else revolutionary which isn’t batteries and electric motors.
And what about other forms of motorsport. I’ve been going to race circuits since I was literally a few weeks old, and they would be a very different place without the sound of an ICE. Will we still be able to race classics? Club motorsport is already so expensive, which is a big barrier to entry, and this is only going to get exacerbated by dwindling interest.
Really?Add on top of that the threat of climate change. I really hope they can make these proposed two strokes work or come up with something else revolutionary which isn’t batteries and electric motors.
And what about other forms of motorsport. I’ve been going to race circuits since I was literally a few weeks old, and they would be a very different place without the sound of an ICE. Will we still be able to race classics? Club motorsport is already so expensive, which is a big barrier to entry, and this is only going to get exacerbated by dwindling interest.
I pay for skysports on nowtv, and get all the channels, is it really not included in a standard skysports subscription?
sociopath said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
It sounds sad but I do generally worry at times about the future of motorsport. It’s one of my few passions in life and I can see a future (in my lifetime) where it might be all but gone. I really hope that Sky decide that F1 isn’t economically worth it and sell the rights back. It’s now in a place where only enthusiasts can watch it. Since you have to pay extra, on top of a sky sports subscription, there is no way for the casual viewer to drop in. I don’t pay it because I’m only interested in the F1. I would watch the cricket when I have time and a bit of the footie, but I haven’t got the spare time in the week.
Add on top of that the threat of climate change. I really hope they can make these proposed two strokes work or come up with something else revolutionary which isn’t batteries and electric motors.
And what about other forms of motorsport. I’ve been going to race circuits since I was literally a few weeks old, and they would be a very different place without the sound of an ICE. Will we still be able to race classics? Club motorsport is already so expensive, which is a big barrier to entry, and this is only going to get exacerbated by dwindling interest.
Really?Add on top of that the threat of climate change. I really hope they can make these proposed two strokes work or come up with something else revolutionary which isn’t batteries and electric motors.
And what about other forms of motorsport. I’ve been going to race circuits since I was literally a few weeks old, and they would be a very different place without the sound of an ICE. Will we still be able to race classics? Club motorsport is already so expensive, which is a big barrier to entry, and this is only going to get exacerbated by dwindling interest.
I pay for skysports on nowtv, and get all the channels, is it really not included in a standard skysports subscription?
F1 has a future...... but it needs to dramatically reduce costs, a global series where you spend 4-5 days a week at each venue for a single 90 minute race on a Sunday just doesn’t make sense. Castle Combe can start at 0900 and have qualifying for 10 races sorted by 1200, quick break for lunch and races done by 1800!... For a sport based on speed, everything happens very slowly in F1. They were all at the circuit today doing what?, today should have been a sprint race. Reverse grids, 30 laps, booooom!
F1 has rigidly stuck to the same format for decades, football has moved on, there is a premiership game pretty much every day of the week from September to April, F1 needs to adapt. People do things on the weekend, I can’t be arsed to stay into watch a motor race. There’s nothing to stop them holding a midweek evening race for example. Arrive at the track on a Wednesday, qualifying on Thursday, First race a Friday, second race on Sunday. I’d probably make a bit of an effort to catch a bit of it.
My thoughts would be for F1 should become an inter-continental series, simplify the regs a little and have a European, Asian, American series. Loads of races each weekend, reduced travel costs and then an end of year global one off race.
Previous generation cars should be made available to privateers to run, in a separate series but shadowing F1 weekends. Maybe to support the continental series? Alternatively, make them qualify for the grid and boost the grid numbers back to 26 or even 30. I can remember the late eighties with pre-qualifying and close to 30 cars entered each race. Just 20 cars on the longer circuits makes it a very dull race. You can’t tell me that Hartley, Webber et al wouldn’t like a crack in a previous generation car.
There is so much easy stuff to do to fix F1 it makes you wonder why no one has done anything in years about it....
F1 has rigidly stuck to the same format for decades, football has moved on, there is a premiership game pretty much every day of the week from September to April, F1 needs to adapt. People do things on the weekend, I can’t be arsed to stay into watch a motor race. There’s nothing to stop them holding a midweek evening race for example. Arrive at the track on a Wednesday, qualifying on Thursday, First race a Friday, second race on Sunday. I’d probably make a bit of an effort to catch a bit of it.
My thoughts would be for F1 should become an inter-continental series, simplify the regs a little and have a European, Asian, American series. Loads of races each weekend, reduced travel costs and then an end of year global one off race.
Previous generation cars should be made available to privateers to run, in a separate series but shadowing F1 weekends. Maybe to support the continental series? Alternatively, make them qualify for the grid and boost the grid numbers back to 26 or even 30. I can remember the late eighties with pre-qualifying and close to 30 cars entered each race. Just 20 cars on the longer circuits makes it a very dull race. You can’t tell me that Hartley, Webber et al wouldn’t like a crack in a previous generation car.
There is so much easy stuff to do to fix F1 it makes you wonder why no one has done anything in years about it....
pablo said:
F1 has a future...... but it needs to dramatically reduce costs, a global series where you spend 4-5 days a week at each venue for a single 90 minute race on a Sunday just doesn’t make sense. Castle Combe can start at 0900 and have qualifying for 10 races sorted by 1200, quick break for lunch and races done by 1800!... For a sport based on speed, everything happens very slowly in F1. They were all at the circuit today doing what?, today should have been a sprint race. Reverse grids, 30 laps, booooom!
F1 has rigidly stuck to the same format for decades, football has moved on, there is a premiership game pretty much every day of the week from September to April, F1 needs to adapt. People do things on the weekend, I can’t be arsed to stay into watch a motor race. There’s nothing to stop them holding a midweek evening race for example. Arrive at the track on a Wednesday, qualifying on Thursday, First race a Friday, second race on Sunday. I’d probably make a bit of an effort to catch a bit of it.
My thoughts would be for F1 should become an inter-continental series, simplify the regs a little and have a European, Asian, American series. Loads of races each weekend, reduced travel costs and then an end of year global one off race.
Previous generation cars should be made available to privateers to run, in a separate series but shadowing F1 weekends. Maybe to support the continental series? Alternatively, make them qualify for the grid and boost the grid numbers back to 26 or even 30. I can remember the late eighties with pre-qualifying and close to 30 cars entered each race. Just 20 cars on the longer circuits makes it a very dull race. You can’t tell me that Hartley, Webber et al wouldn’t like a crack in a previous generation car.
There is so much easy stuff to do to fix F1 it makes you wonder why no one has done anything in years about it....
I'd have F1 reduce costs by only having races in 10 countries but having 2 grand prix in each country per season but at different circuits, for example they would go to Japan and have a race at both Suzuka and Fuji speedway, then go to England and have a race at both Silverstone and Donington. Travel costs would be cut in half. F1 has rigidly stuck to the same format for decades, football has moved on, there is a premiership game pretty much every day of the week from September to April, F1 needs to adapt. People do things on the weekend, I can’t be arsed to stay into watch a motor race. There’s nothing to stop them holding a midweek evening race for example. Arrive at the track on a Wednesday, qualifying on Thursday, First race a Friday, second race on Sunday. I’d probably make a bit of an effort to catch a bit of it.
My thoughts would be for F1 should become an inter-continental series, simplify the regs a little and have a European, Asian, American series. Loads of races each weekend, reduced travel costs and then an end of year global one off race.
Previous generation cars should be made available to privateers to run, in a separate series but shadowing F1 weekends. Maybe to support the continental series? Alternatively, make them qualify for the grid and boost the grid numbers back to 26 or even 30. I can remember the late eighties with pre-qualifying and close to 30 cars entered each race. Just 20 cars on the longer circuits makes it a very dull race. You can’t tell me that Hartley, Webber et al wouldn’t like a crack in a previous generation car.
There is so much easy stuff to do to fix F1 it makes you wonder why no one has done anything in years about it....
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