PHEV Charging Habits?
Discussion
Hi All
Having just ordered my first PHEV, i'm trying to get my head around the electrics/charging options for the home, which has got me thinking about what real world PHEV users are actually doing charge wise? i've been reading about the virtues of smart chargers and optimised tariffs (such as Octopus Go and Agile) - which all makes sense with a full EV. My thoughts are with an EV that has a range of several hundred miles, chances are you'll be charging maybe once or twice a week (unless you are doing hundreds/thousands of miles in which case you'd probably buy a diesel anyway), so optimising the charge costs for when its lowest is a good idea, as you'll generally always have "some" range.
Obviously with a PHEV your range (on EV) is much lower, 20-25'ish miles it seems, something you good easily use in a morning, leaving you with ICE only (unless you charge) in the afternoon, hence my question are real world PHEV users generally just using a mix of EV and ICE throughout a typical day? or are they trying to maximise EV which inevitably means plugging in multiple times a day - which i'm guessing means an optimised electricity tarriff offers less value than with a full EV?
Basically i'm trying to figure out what the best home charging solution is, as i'd rather avoid making an expensive mistake going the wrong route.
Having just ordered my first PHEV, i'm trying to get my head around the electrics/charging options for the home, which has got me thinking about what real world PHEV users are actually doing charge wise? i've been reading about the virtues of smart chargers and optimised tariffs (such as Octopus Go and Agile) - which all makes sense with a full EV. My thoughts are with an EV that has a range of several hundred miles, chances are you'll be charging maybe once or twice a week (unless you are doing hundreds/thousands of miles in which case you'd probably buy a diesel anyway), so optimising the charge costs for when its lowest is a good idea, as you'll generally always have "some" range.
Obviously with a PHEV your range (on EV) is much lower, 20-25'ish miles it seems, something you good easily use in a morning, leaving you with ICE only (unless you charge) in the afternoon, hence my question are real world PHEV users generally just using a mix of EV and ICE throughout a typical day? or are they trying to maximise EV which inevitably means plugging in multiple times a day - which i'm guessing means an optimised electricity tarriff offers less value than with a full EV?
Basically i'm trying to figure out what the best home charging solution is, as i'd rather avoid making an expensive mistake going the wrong route.
We don't drive every day. And when we do it's almost always within the EV range (Passat GTE so about 25-30 miles in summer). I had a proper EV charger fitted so plugging in is not a pain. The car just sits connected to the charger whenever it's not in use. If I could get the rubbish VW CarNet stuff to work properly this would allow remote starting of heating/cooling without impacting the battery charge which would be great.
Likewise, we do not use the PHEV (BMW 225XE) every day, and generally the mileage, when used, is within the the electric range. As our garage has a soft seal on the base of the door the charge cable is just routed under the door to a standard 13 Amp plug. It's plugged in generally after every use. Typically range is 25 miles in summer, winter drops to to 16 to 18. For 50 ish mile journeys, including electric costs, it is equivalent to around 65 - 70 mpg.
We like the ability to pre-commission in winter, the App allows you to set remotely provided there is sufficient electrical power available or if plugged in.
We like the ability to pre-commission in winter, the App allows you to set remotely provided there is sufficient electrical power available or if plugged in.
thanks both, maybe i should just wait till i get it and see what our usage patterns are, i can just use the 3 pin "granny charger" under the garage door i suppose till i figure out whats what. Its just i have the opportunity to get my brother in law(qualified sparky) to do some of the prep work for me cheap, unfortunately the company he works for isn't OLEV accredited.
I’ve got a 330e on order and I will have a EV point fitted, but I’m self sourcing the point and going to get a sparky to fit. The quotes I’m getting to go via OLEV scheme are quite frankly daft, it seems they are that busy that they are quoting daft amounts as they don’t need the business. Cheapest quote I’ve had is 800 for a very straightforward install. That’s after the grant for a pod point unit. Local sparks will carry out and certify the install for £200, and will install according to the current regs. I’ll get a used 7kw charge point to tide me over, hopefully in a few years there will be a definitive standard in regards to the smart functions on the EV points. It’s all a bit of a fudge right now it seems.
Orion917 said:
Having a "proper" charger fitted, increases the usefulness of you PHEV when you do multiple journeys in a day. Shortened charge times means that you can potentially utilise the full battery range more than once in any given day!!
Depending on your particular PHEV. The charge time on our Passat GTE (66 plate) is not all that different as even when connected to a 7.2Kw charger it only charges at 3.6Kw max. If it's not empty it's more like 2Kw according to the charger. But the convenience of having the cable ready outside the house at all times means it's not a chore to plug inrobbieduncan said:
If I could get the rubbish VW CarNet stuff to work properly this would allow remote starting of heating/cooling without impacting the battery charge which would be great.
Mercedes app is also a bit temperamental in this regard, but mostly works and this is definitely one of the main advantages to leaving it hooked up to the charger. Especially in this hot weather, being able to leave in a pre-cooled car is really nice, and probably ekes out the battery range a bit as you're not having to do the initial cool down on battery power. Works equally well for pre-heating in winter too.Think I paid less than £500 for a Pod Point charger after government grant
With the i8, I find I plug it I every night (just from an outside 3 pin plug) as most local journeys I can undertake under Electric drive (about 18 miles) or I'll hold the state of charge, and use the ICE until I come to a town.
I was thinking about changing to an EV tarrif, but just use the Scottish Energy one we have at the moment. The car is set to charge when it's off peak via the App, I've worked out it is about 70p to fill it up.
I would ideally like a wall charger to pop it on at the end of each trip, as I do sometimes do a few journeys per day. At the moment I tend to pop it in sport mode to top the battery back up again...
I was thinking about changing to an EV tarrif, but just use the Scottish Energy one we have at the moment. The car is set to charge when it's off peak via the App, I've worked out it is about 70p to fill it up.
I would ideally like a wall charger to pop it on at the end of each trip, as I do sometimes do a few journeys per day. At the moment I tend to pop it in sport mode to top the battery back up again...
I'd definitely recommend getting a proper charger. Don't get too hung up on tarrif as even a non ev tariff (driven sensibly) will get you cheaper driving than using the ICE.
Also don't get hung up on battery range. The battery in a PHEV is basically an mpg improver. If you try to drive it like an EV then you'll spend your life worrying about range, when/where to charge etc. Which is ridiculous when the range will be 20-30 miles on a full charge.
Since I've been WFH full time, 99% of my car use has been local trips to shops etc so have been able to do it all on battery with either 1 or 2 charges a day. Prior to lockdown, I was doing 80 miles a day and only able to charge at home once a day but still good economy.
Also don't get hung up on battery range. The battery in a PHEV is basically an mpg improver. If you try to drive it like an EV then you'll spend your life worrying about range, when/where to charge etc. Which is ridiculous when the range will be 20-30 miles on a full charge.
Since I've been WFH full time, 99% of my car use has been local trips to shops etc so have been able to do it all on battery with either 1 or 2 charges a day. Prior to lockdown, I was doing 80 miles a day and only able to charge at home once a day but still good economy.
We have a 330e - its always plugged in when its at home (with a proper charger) - during a normal work week about 80% of the driving is in EV mode.
I did some research around electricity tariffs/e7 etc, but it didnt stack up for me.. think that aspect is difficult to justify for a PHEV with their small batteries
I would definitely get a 32amp charging socket fitted, as call it future proofing!
Also, use the car features - scheduled car conditioning is a game changer!.. youll never need to defrost the windows again!!!
I did some research around electricity tariffs/e7 etc, but it didnt stack up for me.. think that aspect is difficult to justify for a PHEV with their small batteries
I would definitely get a 32amp charging socket fitted, as call it future proofing!
Also, use the car features - scheduled car conditioning is a game changer!.. youll never need to defrost the windows again!!!
I have an Vauxhall Ampera which in summer does an estimated 40+ miles on battery. I rarely use petrol
I also have a chargepoint in the garage. When I park, I plug the car in - that has swiftly become second nature.
I have Octopus Go getting cheap electricity between 00:30 and 04:30 and the car only charges at that time - but its enough to fill the battery
I also have a chargepoint in the garage. When I park, I plug the car in - that has swiftly become second nature.
I have Octopus Go getting cheap electricity between 00:30 and 04:30 and the car only charges at that time - but its enough to fill the battery
I've had a 330e for 2 1/2 years now, I rarely charge at home as I have a fuel card through work, however i have fitted an outside plug to aid the winter pre heating which really is a game changer as said above, worth the extra 90p or so to make sure its hot and clear when frosty, only issue with this on the 330e is that it uses the range and doesn't re top up the battery so when you get in its usually around 75% full.
I also agree with the statement above about thinking of a PHEV as different to a full EV, trying to eek out electric miles is pointless, think of it as helping the ICE motor and you really see the MPG difference.
I do quite long runs (100 miles plus) and when fully charged there is a noticeable difference in MPG even if ICE is used (i.e motorway)
I also agree with the statement above about thinking of a PHEV as different to a full EV, trying to eek out electric miles is pointless, think of it as helping the ICE motor and you really see the MPG difference.
I do quite long runs (100 miles plus) and when fully charged there is a noticeable difference in MPG even if ICE is used (i.e motorway)
Assuming a PHEV qualifies for the grant I would get one, as you'll need one at some point in the future and the grant won't be around for ever.
You don't need an EV to make savings, the Octopus Agile tariff will be cheaper for all who don't need much power outside of the peak 4 to 7pm window.
The Go tariff is targeted at EV owners, but the standard rate is comparable to most providers allowing for big savings when you can schedule high power items (washing machine, dishwasher etc..) in the Go cheap window (00:30 to 4:30am), if you fill up your PHEV battery every night it's a third of the daytime rate of most suppliers. Would you drive an ICE past a garage offering fuel for 33% of everyone else?
Do the sums based on your use-age.
If you go with Octopus use my link for a free £50 credit (and you can leave whenever you want too):
https://share.octopus.energy/ivory-snail-551
You don't need an EV to make savings, the Octopus Agile tariff will be cheaper for all who don't need much power outside of the peak 4 to 7pm window.
The Go tariff is targeted at EV owners, but the standard rate is comparable to most providers allowing for big savings when you can schedule high power items (washing machine, dishwasher etc..) in the Go cheap window (00:30 to 4:30am), if you fill up your PHEV battery every night it's a third of the daytime rate of most suppliers. Would you drive an ICE past a garage offering fuel for 33% of everyone else?
Do the sums based on your use-age.
If you go with Octopus use my link for a free £50 credit (and you can leave whenever you want too):
https://share.octopus.energy/ivory-snail-551
A PHEV qualifies for a grant, I got a ZAPPI2 for my Outlander PHEV.
My daily drive is 54 miles. Twenty-seven miles each-way, 19 miles of each journey is motorway, M5-M6-M42, I use electric to get to the motorway, petrol on the motorway, if I can maintain above 50 (arbitrary with no real science) then I revert to electric on departure. On the return I use electric until I again reach the motorway then switch to petrol. I stay on petrol until the EV range is equal to remaining journey mileage.
I am on Octopus Agile, generally I charge after midnight and preheat the car in winter.
Longer journeys I use charge setting on the motorways. It has become a bit of a game. Filling her up costs about £40 for petrol. I can usually make that last 500 miles or so, less when SWMBO drives.
My daily drive is 54 miles. Twenty-seven miles each-way, 19 miles of each journey is motorway, M5-M6-M42, I use electric to get to the motorway, petrol on the motorway, if I can maintain above 50 (arbitrary with no real science) then I revert to electric on departure. On the return I use electric until I again reach the motorway then switch to petrol. I stay on petrol until the EV range is equal to remaining journey mileage.
I am on Octopus Agile, generally I charge after midnight and preheat the car in winter.
Longer journeys I use charge setting on the motorways. It has become a bit of a game. Filling her up costs about £40 for petrol. I can usually make that last 500 miles or so, less when SWMBO drives.
If economy is a big deal and a reason for switching to PHEV, the best way (I found) of comparing fuel economy between ICE car and PHEV is to translate costs into pence per mile.
My PHEV averaged 10p per mile from charging once a day, with pre lockdown usage, over a year. That's the equivalent of 50mpg in an ICE, I think. Anyway, my conclusion was that economy, when doing daily trips above the battery range, was about the same as my previous diesel ICE. So although no big savings, the bonus was the pre heat/cool that you don't get with an ICE.
However, new age of WFH and PHEV has probably cost considerably less than an ICE as most of my journeys now are within battery range and I can charge multiple times a day at home if I want to which I couldn't do if I was at the office.
Finally, don't use public charge points unless they're free. They are not viable for PHEVs and you'd be better off buying petrol.
My PHEV averaged 10p per mile from charging once a day, with pre lockdown usage, over a year. That's the equivalent of 50mpg in an ICE, I think. Anyway, my conclusion was that economy, when doing daily trips above the battery range, was about the same as my previous diesel ICE. So although no big savings, the bonus was the pre heat/cool that you don't get with an ICE.
However, new age of WFH and PHEV has probably cost considerably less than an ICE as most of my journeys now are within battery range and I can charge multiple times a day at home if I want to which I couldn't do if I was at the office.
Finally, don't use public charge points unless they're free. They are not viable for PHEVs and you'd be better off buying petrol.
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