We need a new Forum section for Porsche electric
Discussion
After spending 500 miles over two days with the Taycan Turbo, there is so much more to be said for electric cars.
I live in central London with no charging at home and was due to travel to York for one night. Porsche East London kindly lent me their Taycan Turbo fully charged.
My wife and son were coming with and given there was so much unknown, I was nervous if it would go smoothly. The hotel had no charging capabilities and I’d have to shuttle round York looking at houses, so....
As it happens, there was a fast charger round corner where I live on street for a Friday night top up. Easy enough so far.
Saturday set off and stopped at Peterborough services for ionic chargers (fast), and most were faulty. 20 mins and it was 100% again. Not sure how long it took, as that’s a toilet break with masks and child.
Get to York, round lots of houses, visit family outside York, back into York and public car park round from hotel has chargers. I’m less than 30%. The car park has one fast charger but 1 hour limit and slow slow chargers which I used over night - 12 hours later car was 98% and suspect the charger couldn't fill the porsche 100%. There was only one spare point though. Enterprise car hire had taken up all the bays with chargers - to park normal cars. It wasn’t easy and all the systems except central London were clearly too fragile to use.
On way back, I’m told by Porsche navigation I’ll get to Peterborough with 35% charge which was nice, and setting off with lots more local driving, we arrive at Peterborough with 40% - the nav helped me avoid an hour on the A1 after lorry fire. Waze didnt even pick it up.
Arriving at Peterborough I only did 11 mins and got another +25% charge. Back home. Then back to Porsche East London this morning. Still 50 miles left.
It is clear to me that the electric motor is the future. I don’t think it can’t be lithium though. Wonder if this is why no one really invested in the infrastructure.
There’s a lot to fix before we see electric as mainstream in UK. I think 10 years is optimistic because the more of us that use them, the less viable it becomes. The infrastructure is poor today, but because so few of us are using it, it’s “ok”. Imagine how many pumps there are vs charge points.
Now consider there are no real world usable charging points that can charge the Taycan at maximum capacity. You won’t get one at home either - you’ll need a connection direct to grid and substation.
I live in central London with no charging at home and was due to travel to York for one night. Porsche East London kindly lent me their Taycan Turbo fully charged.
My wife and son were coming with and given there was so much unknown, I was nervous if it would go smoothly. The hotel had no charging capabilities and I’d have to shuttle round York looking at houses, so....
As it happens, there was a fast charger round corner where I live on street for a Friday night top up. Easy enough so far.
Saturday set off and stopped at Peterborough services for ionic chargers (fast), and most were faulty. 20 mins and it was 100% again. Not sure how long it took, as that’s a toilet break with masks and child.
Get to York, round lots of houses, visit family outside York, back into York and public car park round from hotel has chargers. I’m less than 30%. The car park has one fast charger but 1 hour limit and slow slow chargers which I used over night - 12 hours later car was 98% and suspect the charger couldn't fill the porsche 100%. There was only one spare point though. Enterprise car hire had taken up all the bays with chargers - to park normal cars. It wasn’t easy and all the systems except central London were clearly too fragile to use.
On way back, I’m told by Porsche navigation I’ll get to Peterborough with 35% charge which was nice, and setting off with lots more local driving, we arrive at Peterborough with 40% - the nav helped me avoid an hour on the A1 after lorry fire. Waze didnt even pick it up.
Arriving at Peterborough I only did 11 mins and got another +25% charge. Back home. Then back to Porsche East London this morning. Still 50 miles left.
It is clear to me that the electric motor is the future. I don’t think it can’t be lithium though. Wonder if this is why no one really invested in the infrastructure.
There’s a lot to fix before we see electric as mainstream in UK. I think 10 years is optimistic because the more of us that use them, the less viable it becomes. The infrastructure is poor today, but because so few of us are using it, it’s “ok”. Imagine how many pumps there are vs charge points.
Now consider there are no real world usable charging points that can charge the Taycan at maximum capacity. You won’t get one at home either - you’ll need a connection direct to grid and substation.
Edited by woollyjoe on Monday 17th August 19:47
Missing rest of post but in short, it sounds. Like I’m saying I wouldn’t get one. Except
I would.
I think it offers a paradigm shift in driving that supersedes what a 992 offers. Price aside, it’s like your Marty mcfly, and you’ve gone back in time driving one. It attracts curious interest from everyone. I’ve never felt more special in a car.
It is a better car. I just don’t think we’re ready for them. As if to prove the point, I got a migraine today. Bad one too. My brain had enough. It was working overtime to process more information driving faster. It’s not about breaking speed limits but we’ve grown up allowing our brains to slowly process our movement on the road. With a Taycan everything happens immediately. You think about setting off at lights and your at 30. You think of overtake, it’s already happened. It doesn’t matter who else is on the road. Electric motors are instant. Then the g force - it was discombobulating.
I would.
I think it offers a paradigm shift in driving that supersedes what a 992 offers. Price aside, it’s like your Marty mcfly, and you’ve gone back in time driving one. It attracts curious interest from everyone. I’ve never felt more special in a car.
It is a better car. I just don’t think we’re ready for them. As if to prove the point, I got a migraine today. Bad one too. My brain had enough. It was working overtime to process more information driving faster. It’s not about breaking speed limits but we’ve grown up allowing our brains to slowly process our movement on the road. With a Taycan everything happens immediately. You think about setting off at lights and your at 30. You think of overtake, it’s already happened. It doesn’t matter who else is on the road. Electric motors are instant. Then the g force - it was discombobulating.
Solid state battery will change how people think about electric.
So the current crop of cars are the most unfriendly cars to buy imo as they will be out of date big time in 3 years, then what ?
Spend £15k on a new battery for a 3 year old car ? To get a solid state one when you will see 600plus miles a charge.
Atm the only people I knew who buy them are rich company owners to pay less Tax.
We are in limbo land atm but I would buy a mini with 400 mile solid state battery.
But as we stand it's out of date tech ,very few fast chargers, no standards , and not much gov help vs the rest of Europe.
So the current crop of cars are the most unfriendly cars to buy imo as they will be out of date big time in 3 years, then what ?
Spend £15k on a new battery for a 3 year old car ? To get a solid state one when you will see 600plus miles a charge.
Atm the only people I knew who buy them are rich company owners to pay less Tax.
We are in limbo land atm but I would buy a mini with 400 mile solid state battery.
But as we stand it's out of date tech ,very few fast chargers, no standards , and not much gov help vs the rest of Europe.
WonkeyDonkey said:
I'm sorry but if the only people buying them are the rich for the tax break then why should the government help?
I suppose the tories are in charge though.
Because mr ave is not going to pay £40k for a pretty basic electric car, when you can go out and buy a golf gti for £30k I suppose the tories are in charge though.
to help the climate you need to get old s
tty cars off the road, other countries offer £15k the UK offer £3k !!! Their should be no help above £50k cars I agree.
The issue we have today is no standards, no fast chargers and soon to be out of date batteries.
So as I say the main buyers are high end company directors cars as the £150k Aston they could get on 1k a month killed them on TAX hence even at £1k Aston could not shift them !!!
Cheaper to own a 2.5k a month tacan turbo s.
Atm hybrids are the stop gap, electric is playing at it and have zero future with today’s batteries, just helps lower the ave co2 for the manafactures !!!
I might get a mini but on a 2 year lease as the markets moving too fast to be stuck in one. But it’s very wasteful changing cars that often.
Porsche911R said:
So the current crop of cars are the most unfriendly cars to buy imo as they will be out of date big time in 3 years, then what ?
Spend £15k on a new battery for a 3 year old car ? To get a solid state one when you will see 600plus miles a charge.
Atm the only people I knew who buy them are rich company owners to pay less Tax.
We are in limbo land atm but I would buy a mini with 400 mile solid state battery.
But as we stand it's out of date tech ,very few fast chargers, no standards , and not much gov help vs the rest of Europe.
You are mistaken. They don't get to 3 years old and then the batteries fail. Our electric car has better range now after over three years than it had new.Spend £15k on a new battery for a 3 year old car ? To get a solid state one when you will see 600plus miles a charge.
Atm the only people I knew who buy them are rich company owners to pay less Tax.
We are in limbo land atm but I would buy a mini with 400 mile solid state battery.
But as we stand it's out of date tech ,very few fast chargers, no standards , and not much gov help vs the rest of Europe.
BertBert said:
You are mistaken. They don't get to 3 years old and then the batteries fail. Our electric car has better range now after over three years than it had new.
You misread my post.Solid state battery will double maybe triple ranges, charge faster and maybe be lighter. If it’s also a lot lighter then fitted one to a 3 year old car won’t work with it's suspension.
A battery degrades from day one, so you prob just have learnt how to drive different with electric over thinking the battery after 3 years has improved.
Porsche911R said:
Solid state battery will change how people think about electric.
So the current crop of cars are the most unfriendly cars to buy imo as they will be out of date big time in 3 years, then what ?
Spend £15k on a new battery for a 3 year old car ? To get a solid state one when you will see 600plus miles a charge.
Atm the only people I knew who buy them are rich company owners to pay less Tax.
We are in limbo land atm but I would buy a mini with 400 mile solid state battery.
But as we stand it's out of date tech ,very few fast chargers, no standards , and not much gov help vs the rest of Europe.
I am not sure it is three years...talking to someone who works for JLR in electric drivetrain he said batteries will become cheaper in short to medium term but nothing expected in terms of vastly better battery technology/life for a fair few years. When I was watching one of the recent Gordon Murray interviews about the T.50 he commented it’s 10 years before we see a significant change in battery tech. So the current crop of cars are the most unfriendly cars to buy imo as they will be out of date big time in 3 years, then what ?
Spend £15k on a new battery for a 3 year old car ? To get a solid state one when you will see 600plus miles a charge.
Atm the only people I knew who buy them are rich company owners to pay less Tax.
We are in limbo land atm but I would buy a mini with 400 mile solid state battery.
But as we stand it's out of date tech ,very few fast chargers, no standards , and not much gov help vs the rest of Europe.
Ionity’s network is surprisingly more developed in Germany and the countries bordering Germany (except France) because the shareholders are mostly the German OEM’s. I guess over the next 5 years that will change dramatically.
I cancelled my original Taycan as i didn't think i'd like it but ordered another one back in March..I drove one quite recently and was hugely impressed with all aspects of how it drove..I much prefer it compared to the 992S i owned..It changes direction instantly which is at odds with its 2,2T weight..The interior design and quality is outstanding..
The 4S with the larger PP battery has 571PS and faster than you need which makes the Turbo and Turbo S just overkill..Mine is arriving early October and i'm looking forward to it as much as my RS WP..
Interestingly when i get it, my RS will be my third most powerful car in the garage after my 670HP 488 and Taycan's 570..Very strange times.!!
The 4S with the larger PP battery has 571PS and faster than you need which makes the Turbo and Turbo S just overkill..Mine is arriving early October and i'm looking forward to it as much as my RS WP..
Interestingly when i get it, my RS will be my third most powerful car in the garage after my 670HP 488 and Taycan's 570..Very strange times.!!
Cheib said:
I am not sure it is three years...talking to someone who works for JLR in electric drivetrain he said batteries will become cheaper in short to medium term but nothing expected in terms of vastly better battery technology/life for a fair few years. When I was watching one of the recent Gordon Murray interviews about the T.50 he commented it’s 10 years before we see a significant change in battery tech.
Ionity’s network is surprisingly more developed in Germany and the countries bordering Germany (except France) because the shareholders are mostly the German OEM’s. I guess over the next 5 years that will change dramatically.
I think we will see solid date before 10 years things do change quite dramatically, look at the last 3 years in battery tech. Ionity’s network is surprisingly more developed in Germany and the countries bordering Germany (except France) because the shareholders are mostly the German OEM’s. I guess over the next 5 years that will change dramatically.
It’s 3 years away imo less than 2 in power tools and smaller apps , only way it’s 10 is with back handlers to keep it off the market in cars. People seem to say 5 years in cars but seems too long for the know breakthrough which is already a few years old.
I love the idea of the Taycan, but the thought of stopping here and there to get a top up is a novelty more than a practicality. The idea of squeezing the loud pedal, getting a predictable range and a quick splash and dash before continuing remains very appealing to me. Additionally, I can carry some fuel as a top up.
Solid state batteries as opposed to liquid batteries were being developed in the early 1960s but stopped in 1965 due to the lack of conductive ionic solids..Its still at least 10 years away from being commercially viable in cars as there are still technical and cost issues to sort out..
bolidemichael said:
I love the idea of the Taycan, but the thought of stopping here and there to get a top up is a novelty more than a practicality. The idea of squeezing the loud pedal, getting a predictable range and a quick splash and dash before continuing remains very appealing to me. Additionally, I can carry some fuel as a top up.
That’s what I thought until I drove it. So porsche have managed to make their batteries more “available” than say a Tesla. I think that’s a game changer for performance and consumer friendliness.
car batteries are managed way more sophisticatedly than any other device like an iPhone. The batteries aren’t depleting like phones and laptops because they have advanced software management and cooling. How long they last we don’t know but Tesla’s in Amsterdam being used as taxis Have proven there’s minimal degradation that happens thus far.
battery advancement Now is about getting cheaper - not better. Safer too - don’t even think about electron discharge!
car batteries are managed way more sophisticatedly than any other device like an iPhone. The batteries aren’t depleting like phones and laptops because they have advanced software management and cooling. How long they last we don’t know but Tesla’s in Amsterdam being used as taxis Have proven there’s minimal degradation that happens thus far.
battery advancement Now is about getting cheaper - not better. Safer too - don’t even think about electron discharge!
woollyjoe said:
bolidemichael said:
I love the idea of the Taycan, but the thought of stopping here and there to get a top up is a novelty more than a practicality. The idea of squeezing the loud pedal, getting a predictable range and a quick splash and dash before continuing remains very appealing to me. Additionally, I can carry some fuel as a top up.
That’s what I thought until I drove it. Just prior to lockdown, my wife asked me to collect her Mum in Glasgow and we're in London. That involved a quick fuel top up prior to departure after dinner i.e. immediately, along with bringing the 20L can along. I stopped overnight in Tebay and topped up in the morning, continuing my journey to Glasgow. Granted, I could've topped up an electric vehicle overnight but I do not recall seeing any dedicated chargers outside the hotel.
Once in Glasgow, she was ready to go, we stopped at a few places to buy enough bog roll to resell on ebay and afford a Taycan and then headed back down South. We stopped for fuel once and that's that.
I would've been loth to build charging stops into the journey, particularly the lottery of non-availability as you described above. It's hard enough ensuring that I find a Shell with V Power!
Of all electric cars, it certainly intrigues me, but there's no overlooking the fact that the practicality isn't a patch an ICE powered motor. That isn't to mention the flexibility in speed that I like to have in my pocket, in all temperatures.
I have a love hate relationship with our french electric car. It's pretty good, not been unreliable, does the job as well now as it did 3 years ago. But the instant acceleration is just vile. It's ok for a hoon, one up. In fact good fun (surprising for a Zoe). It's Mrs Bert's car and noone in the family wants to go out in it as it's so uncomfortable.
But I fear that the electric car experience is going to be pretty horrid in the next few years. We have been looking at replacing it (just because Mrs Bert thinks I always look after myself with cars, so it's a browny points exercise) and the demand for them is huge. You can get the new Zoe, but Renault are manic and it took a big (effective) price rise from pre to post lockdown. The VW dealer doesn't even have time to talk to me about the ID3, they will sell by the bucket load. So, to my point, there is now a boom in electric car ownership and the charger network isn't going to be up to it. The stops on that long journey will take hours because the chargers will all have queues. Imagine the saturday morning drive down through france where each fill takes 30-60 mins, the queues will stretch back to the UK!
Bert
But I fear that the electric car experience is going to be pretty horrid in the next few years. We have been looking at replacing it (just because Mrs Bert thinks I always look after myself with cars, so it's a browny points exercise) and the demand for them is huge. You can get the new Zoe, but Renault are manic and it took a big (effective) price rise from pre to post lockdown. The VW dealer doesn't even have time to talk to me about the ID3, they will sell by the bucket load. So, to my point, there is now a boom in electric car ownership and the charger network isn't going to be up to it. The stops on that long journey will take hours because the chargers will all have queues. Imagine the saturday morning drive down through france where each fill takes 30-60 mins, the queues will stretch back to the UK!
Bert
I test drove a Taycan Turbo and thought it would make an awesome daily driver but I don't want to daily anything worth £115K in London. As a weekend fun car it's not "fun" enough.
I live in central London with no possibility to charge at home so would be at the mercy of public charging infrastructure which I'm not willing to do. Public charging is borderline acceptable right now but I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. At the moment government approvals process means from inception to plug in and first charge it takes at least eight months to put a fast charge point on a garage forecourt.
As an electrical engineer I don't believe the changes required to the existing electrical distribution network to accommodate widespread fast charger instillation can keep up with the adoption of EV's.
My husband thinks unwrapping dishwasher tablets is a massive PITA, if I made us waif for 20 minutes in a motorway services while we waited to charge the car that would result in a cold shoulder or a massive argument.
I live in central London with no possibility to charge at home so would be at the mercy of public charging infrastructure which I'm not willing to do. Public charging is borderline acceptable right now but I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. At the moment government approvals process means from inception to plug in and first charge it takes at least eight months to put a fast charge point on a garage forecourt.
As an electrical engineer I don't believe the changes required to the existing electrical distribution network to accommodate widespread fast charger instillation can keep up with the adoption of EV's.
My husband thinks unwrapping dishwasher tablets is a massive PITA, if I made us waif for 20 minutes in a motorway services while we waited to charge the car that would result in a cold shoulder or a massive argument.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff