Accounts - Independent Examination
Discussion
I am the Secretary of a local swimming club and the accounts are meant to be independently examined every year, which has t happened for a number of years. It’s not believed the Treasurer is dishonest or anything but it is felt they should be examined.
However year end is the end of August with the AGM in September when the accounts are meant to be presented. The Treasurer hasn’t mentioned it yet but I don’t believe there is sufficient time to do end of year accounts, and get them independently examined by the AGM.
The swimming club turns over around £100k a year, income is mainly monthly fees with occasional income from events, kit etc. Outgoings are mainly pool hire to 3 pools and coaches.
I know it’s a bit how long is a piece of sting, but roughly how long should it take a volunteer treasurer to do the year end accounts, and then how long for the examiner to examine them?
However year end is the end of August with the AGM in September when the accounts are meant to be presented. The Treasurer hasn’t mentioned it yet but I don’t believe there is sufficient time to do end of year accounts, and get them independently examined by the AGM.
The swimming club turns over around £100k a year, income is mainly monthly fees with occasional income from events, kit etc. Outgoings are mainly pool hire to 3 pools and coaches.
I know it’s a bit how long is a piece of sting, but roughly how long should it take a volunteer treasurer to do the year end accounts, and then how long for the examiner to examine them?
depends how the accounts are maintained through the year and then the standards to which they are being presented...
an independent examiner need not be an accountant, but someone who knows their way through accounts, and is basically looking to ensure there is no fraud and that the figures add up... when I used to do a local church, it took less than an evening - similar turnover...
an independent examiner need not be an accountant, but someone who knows their way through accounts, and is basically looking to ensure there is no fraud and that the figures add up... when I used to do a local church, it took less than an evening - similar turnover...
Chrisgr31 said:
I am the Secretary of a local swimming club and the accounts are meant to be independently examined every year, which has t happened for a number of years. It’s not believed the Treasurer is dishonest or anything but it is felt they should be examined.
However year end is the end of August with the AGM in September when the accounts are meant to be presented. The Treasurer hasn’t mentioned it yet but I don’t believe there is sufficient time to do end of year accounts, and get them independently examined by the AGM.
The swimming club turns over around £100k a year, income is mainly monthly fees with occasional income from events, kit etc. Outgoings are mainly pool hire to 3 pools and coaches.
I know it’s a bit how long is a piece of sting, but roughly how long should it take a volunteer treasurer to do the year end accounts, and then how long for the examiner to examine them?
How long it takes really depends on what bookkeeping / preparation has already been done, and what software you are using.However year end is the end of August with the AGM in September when the accounts are meant to be presented. The Treasurer hasn’t mentioned it yet but I don’t believe there is sufficient time to do end of year accounts, and get them independently examined by the AGM.
The swimming club turns over around £100k a year, income is mainly monthly fees with occasional income from events, kit etc. Outgoings are mainly pool hire to 3 pools and coaches.
I know it’s a bit how long is a piece of sting, but roughly how long should it take a volunteer treasurer to do the year end accounts, and then how long for the examiner to examine them?
I can do our end of years books in 30 mins, but we keep weekly bookkeeping up to date using Quickbooks.
If everything is paper based and thrown in cardboard boxes, it could take a couple of weeks, maybe longer.
If you are nervous and want to get them checked but don’t have enough time, you have a couple of options. First, you could get the previous years checked and have these ready for your AGM, or report to the AGM that this years haven’t been checked in time for the meeting but you wilk issue a memo / bulletin once they have been.
OP - in 'my' experience
'My' being my current partner does the local Brownies accounts, ex-wife her local Scouts. They are both accountants.
The accounts should be being kept up to date during the year - so long as the info is consistently being provided to the treasurer (Brownies, looking at you here). If not it can be a pain, but even then realistically is a 1/2 day job for the worst 'carrier bag' experience. Cash is the biggest nightmare - the subs for scouts/brownies and leaders just spending the cash their are holding on sundry expenses rather than claiming expenses properly, and then having to scrabble to find receipts.
The year end independent check in both cases takes about an hour, both cases using a qualified accountant (we know a few).
You club (charity?) is bigger and has more transactions, I'd guess. But probably less cash so should be easier to trace transactions. Net net - sounds like about the same.
It may not all be the treasurers fault - as alluded to above, they may not be being given the info during the year, just have it dumped on them after year end, and that can be a royal PITA.
'My' being my current partner does the local Brownies accounts, ex-wife her local Scouts. They are both accountants.
The accounts should be being kept up to date during the year - so long as the info is consistently being provided to the treasurer (Brownies, looking at you here). If not it can be a pain, but even then realistically is a 1/2 day job for the worst 'carrier bag' experience. Cash is the biggest nightmare - the subs for scouts/brownies and leaders just spending the cash their are holding on sundry expenses rather than claiming expenses properly, and then having to scrabble to find receipts.
The year end independent check in both cases takes about an hour, both cases using a qualified accountant (we know a few).
You club (charity?) is bigger and has more transactions, I'd guess. But probably less cash so should be easier to trace transactions. Net net - sounds like about the same.
It may not all be the treasurers fault - as alluded to above, they may not be being given the info during the year, just have it dumped on them after year end, and that can be a royal PITA.
Chrisgr31 said:
Eric Mc said:
Is the club a registered charity?
Nope - fortunately. Well arguably unfortunately as it would be a lot easier to force the Treasurer to do things then with the statutory requirements that come with being a charity!The concept of "Independent Examination" was introduced to enable smaller Registered Charities to have their accounts checked without the need to engage a full blown (and expensive) Registered Auditor to conduct a full legal audit of the books, records and accounts.
The Charity Regulations state clearly what an Independent Examination actually is and who is authorised to carry out an Independent Examination.
If you club is NOT a Registered Charity, what rules are you operating under that makes you feel the club needs an Independent Examination.
Is it written into the club's Constitution?
Chrisgr31 said:
I know it’s a bit how long is a piece of sting, but roughly how long should it take a volunteer treasurer to do the year end accounts,
It depends on how good the bookkeeping is and the volume of transactions. If, for example, the turnover of £100k represents a donation of £100k from 1 member and 1 invoice for "Buildings maintenance" then it should take about 15 minutes to do a P&L and Balance Sheet. If, on the other hand, the £100k represents 100,000 donations of £1 and the expenditure is 1000 lots of invoices for £100 then it's going to take longer.
On top of that if you havent kept detailed accounting entries for the income and expenditure reconciled back to source documents (receipts, invoices, bank statements) it could take an experienced bookkeeper a week to construct the accounts and fill in the blanks (to a level where they could be submitted for an independent examination)
Chrisgr31 said:
and then how long for the examiner to examine them?
Again it depends on the amount of sample checking they want to do. However I would be surprised if it couldn't be done in 1 day.Eric Mc said:
What regulations govern the requirement for the club to have an Independent Examination then?
The concept of "Independent Examination" was introduced to enable smaller Registered Charities to have their accounts checked without the need to engage a full blown (and expensive) Registered Auditor to conduct a full legal audit of the books, records and accounts.
The Charity Regulations state clearly what an Independent Examination actually is and who is authorised to carry out an Independent Examination.
If you club is NOT a Registered Charity, what rules are you operating under that makes you feel the club needs an Independent Examination.
Is it written into the club's Constitution?
Its in the Clubs constitution, and of course would be good practice anyway.The concept of "Independent Examination" was introduced to enable smaller Registered Charities to have their accounts checked without the need to engage a full blown (and expensive) Registered Auditor to conduct a full legal audit of the books, records and accounts.
The Charity Regulations state clearly what an Independent Examination actually is and who is authorised to carry out an Independent Examination.
If you club is NOT a Registered Charity, what rules are you operating under that makes you feel the club needs an Independent Examination.
Is it written into the club's Constitution?
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