Blagging a project management role?

[fiju]

I'd like to get into contracting as a project manager, however I feel that my experience is insufficient. I don't have any experience of being a project manager, however I have worked as a Project Engineer on NEC contracts, shadowing a project manager. I can do most of the role, but I feel that I may get tripped up during an interview with specific questions. What I'd like to do is prepare myself for such interviews. Any pointers?

[n3il123]

Good luck, there are about a million experienced project managers looking for work at the moment.

In IT I know of 3 good experienced project/ programme managers that have been looking for contract work for ~6 months, other peoples experiences may differ though.

[xx99xx]

There's no hiding as a contractor. If you make mistakes or do a poor job etc, you'll be gone. Maybe think about doing some courses/qualifications instead of trying to 'blag' it? Obviously some projects can be easier than others but an experienced PM can make the job look easy, when it actually isn't.

[iphonedyou]

The NEC 4 (and 3, which you can convert with a half day) course is well worth it.

It's two online courses with multiple choice tests, then a five day course followed by another online test and a written exam.

I run a PM and QS consultancy and we regard that qualification pretty highly.

[Pit Pony]

Strangely, I've just got a contract as a project manager.
I'm a Chartered Manufacturing Engineer, and 6 Sigma Black Belt.
If I look back over 30 years, I have project managed lots of projects, bringing in New equipment, and carrying out improve my projects.
I've been contracting for 11 years, doing the same, but this came out of the blue.
Phone call from the MD of a small defence contractor, who I'd worked with about 7 years ago.
I didn't apply.

[fiju]

The engineering/construction industries are always on the look out for project managers, so I don't think there's any chance of stagnation.

I see what you're saying about the winging it part, perhaps i'm better off going on the books with a company who will train me up? I could probably get a project engineer role, has anyone here got experience of doing so as a contractor?

What's the NEC course being referred to?

[Fittster]

xx99xx said:

There's no hiding as a contractor. If you make mistakes or do a poor job etc, you'll be gone.

It's amazing how people working in the same industry can have very different opinions about the same thing.

[fiju]

Fittster said:

It's amazing how people working in the same industry can have very different opinions about the same thing.

I do understand where you're coming from. I knew a PM who wasn't great at his job (from what I hear). Nobody really liked him, and he always stank of BO and wore the same clothes every day - no matter the occasion. It was amazing that they didn't get rid of him, it only happened when they had a purge of contractors due to IR35. Most were offered to come onto the books, he wasn't...

[jpringle819]

Some kind of Project Manager qualification would probably be the biggest help. I have been a project engineer and often feel like I could be doing the PM job better than the PM. Having said that I wouldn't want to be one

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

as an aside, I have been seconded into a department to provide resource for a couple of roles that were undertaken by contractors pre COVID. The roles are mostly reporting and some project based stuff. The contractors left very detailed process notes, but I am noticing that I can complete their assigned reporting tasks in about half the time and with a much simpler process. Do I assume that contractors deliberately make their role to be harder than it is to keep them in a job, in a kind of " I know he's expensive, but all the stuff he does is so complicated, I've seen how long it takes him, kind of way?"

[Jumpy Guy]

On an associated note, what's the current best PM qualification in Engineering projects?

What's the latest/ newest technique/fad/method?

I.e. What training should an aspiring PM look at

[hutchst]

Jumpy Guy said:

On an associated note, what's the current best PM qualification in Engineering projects?

What's the latest/ newest technique/fad/method?

I.e. What training should an aspiring PM look at

The kind that involves getting your hands or boots dirty. You can't manage a process effectively that you don't thoroughly understand.

[deckster]

hutchst said:

Jumpy Guy said:

On an associated note, what's the current best PM qualification in Engineering projects?

What's the latest/ newest technique/fad/method?

I.e. What training should an aspiring PM look at

The kind that involves getting your hands or boots dirty. You can't manage a process effectively that you don't thoroughly understand.

I disagree completely. All the best PMs I've worked with have been very good at managing tasks, delegating, looking at dependencies, managing messages and most importantly being a st umbrella for the project resources. Being good at the tasks themselves is absolutely not a requirement.

People who have moved over from the technical side have either been completely awful at the PM role, or were awful at the technical stuff in the first place. They're very different roles that need very different people, and it's a rare person who's good at both sides.

[hyphen]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Would you? Why?

It's not like a formal skill, such as an engineer where you actually need to 'do' a knowledge based task and produce an output.

You just need to talk the talk, use MS projects or another suitable tool. Make sure deadlines are met and to budget.

Very few PM's add much if the team themselves are good.

[T5R+]

"Blagging" really sums up the view of "PM" as a vocation.

[Pit Pony]

deckster said:

hutchst said:

Jumpy Guy said:

On an associated note, what's the current best PM qualification in Engineering projects?

What's the latest/ newest technique/fad/method?

I.e. What training should an aspiring PM look at

The kind that involves getting your hands or boots dirty. You can't manage a process effectively that you don't thoroughly understand.

I disagree completely. All the best PMs I've worked with have been very good at managing tasks, delegating, looking at dependencies, managing messages and most importantly being a st umbrella for the project resources. Being good at the tasks themselves is absolutely not a requirement.

People who have moved over from the technical side have either been completely awful at the PM role, or were awful at the technical stuff in the first place. They're very different roles that need very different people, and it's a rare person who's good at both sides.

The best project manager, I've ever met was female, 30, had a history degree, and was managing 5 contractors, 6 graduate trainees and 4 permies on a range of manufacturing engineering tasks.
I reckon she was good at it because she knew she couldn't do the work herself.

[Jumpy Guy]

So, assuming my employer will pay for one course, any reason not to do APM PMQ?

[98elise]

deckster said:

hutchst said:

Jumpy Guy said:

On an associated note, what's the current best PM qualification in Engineering projects?

What's the latest/ newest technique/fad/method?

I.e. What training should an aspiring PM look at

The kind that involves getting your hands or boots dirty. You can't manage a process effectively that you don't thoroughly understand.

I disagree completely. All the best PMs I've worked with have been very good at managing tasks, delegating, looking at dependencies, managing messages and most importantly being a st umbrella for the project resources. Being good at the tasks themselves is absolutely not a requirement.

People who have moved over from the technical side have either been completely awful at the PM role, or were awful at the technical stuff in the first place. They're very different roles that need very different people, and it's a rare person who's good at both sides.

I'm with you on that. The best PM's I've worked with have not been experts in the task at hand. They are experts in managing time, resources, and budgets.

I became a contractor because I know I'm good at what I do, but I would make a crap project manager. It's simply wasn the right career progression for me.

[Thebaggers]

Consider a scrum master role and training. The roles are often as plentiful as a PM and as more deliveries move to agile the trend will be to have more scrum and less waterfall in many industries. Qualification is straightforward, as is the job, it is a subset of the skill based of a PM but the goal is similar; get the best out of the team and keep things clear, transparent and organised.

Checkout scrum.org.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

98elise said:

I'm with you on that. The best PM's I've worked with have not been experts in the task at hand. They are experts in managing time, resources, and budgets.

I became a contractor because I know I'm good at what I do, but I would make a crap project manager. It's simply wasn the right career progression for me.

I’d say a bit of both and neither is written in stone.

Hire the experts and let them flourish is all well and good but a lot of projects invariably involve managing other people’s teams so you can’t know strengths and weaknesses until they are tested.

Fine if your bullst-ometer is finely tuned but skills knowledge will always give you perspective.

I suppose the problem with PM is everyone without exception, always thinks they can do it themselves. As I’m in construction I have a few choice episodes of Grand Designs I like to recommend as good viewing for people who think it’s as easy as pencilling in the joiners for a week in February