Where does this Facebook response sit on political spectrum?
Discussion
A FB friend of mine, of who used I used to be a work colleague with quite a few years ago posts the occasional political point as his status.
He is clearly pro Brexit and whilst we don't agree with one another, he has never been especially controversial nor does he share nonsense 'Britain First' type posts. In summary we disagree but I like the fact it exposes me an opposing viewpoint.
Today he posted a fairly common viewpoint that he 'feels sorry for the young immigrant that died today but really the French should sort their border out and stop it from happening'.
I rose to the bait and replied with 'the French are under no obligation to help us and perhaps not we have left the EU, influencing may prove to be more difficult'.
Fairly generic TBH and highly the height of debate.
He then responded with this:
He is clearly pro Brexit and whilst we don't agree with one another, he has never been especially controversial nor does he share nonsense 'Britain First' type posts. In summary we disagree but I like the fact it exposes me an opposing viewpoint.
Today he posted a fairly common viewpoint that he 'feels sorry for the young immigrant that died today but really the French should sort their border out and stop it from happening'.
I rose to the bait and replied with 'the French are under no obligation to help us and perhaps not we have left the EU, influencing may prove to be more difficult'.
Fairly generic TBH and highly the height of debate.
He then responded with this:
FB friend said:
But then people shouldn’t cry when dead teenagers get washed up in Calais.
My way would be simpler. If you get here, you get rounded up and put into a lockup, until we can establish who you are and why you are here. Genuine political asylum seekers can be given asylum. Those who are not are flown back to where they come from.
If we can’t establish where you come from, you spend 5 years in a “UK Initialisation Course”, where you live on a camp, you must learn English, you must do a years national service, a years community service and we will give you a trade qualification. Upon completion you get a nice NI number and citizenship. In that time, you’ve contributed to society, made an effort to adapt, represented your new countries military and been given a life skill.
If you still want to come here illegally knowing you won’t have any proper freedom for 5 years and your confident you can convince our authorities that we don’t know where you are from, then by all means, risk your life to make that journey across The Channel.
I don't mind admitting my political view are left of centre but this has really struck my as being a bit of an out there viewpoint - interested to hear the PH view. My way would be simpler. If you get here, you get rounded up and put into a lockup, until we can establish who you are and why you are here. Genuine political asylum seekers can be given asylum. Those who are not are flown back to where they come from.
If we can’t establish where you come from, you spend 5 years in a “UK Initialisation Course”, where you live on a camp, you must learn English, you must do a years national service, a years community service and we will give you a trade qualification. Upon completion you get a nice NI number and citizenship. In that time, you’ve contributed to society, made an effort to adapt, represented your new countries military and been given a life skill.
If you still want to come here illegally knowing you won’t have any proper freedom for 5 years and your confident you can convince our authorities that we don’t know where you are from, then by all means, risk your life to make that journey across The Channel.
I think your FB friend would feel at home in many of the N, P & E threads on PH.
I think the question is where that FB post sits on the humanitarian and reality spectrums.
Edited to add: Your FB friend would also end up in the Spelling Police and Apostrophe threads.
I think the question is where that FB post sits on the humanitarian and reality spectrums.
Edited to add: Your FB friend would also end up in the Spelling Police and Apostrophe threads.
Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 19th August 21:06
‘Left of centre’ nowadays just means you don’t actually have an opinion. It’s the do nothing option. Taking the ops point, say that we had stayed in the eu, which removes the convenient hook to hang the blame on ‘right wingers’ via brexit, then presumably he’s ok with a system that allows people into the country to be used as slave labour/ exploited?.
I definitely don't agree with a fair chunk of what he has posted, but I've seen the likes of the Calais jungle as a big failing of the EU - leaving Brexit aside completely.
With regards to refugees, while there will always be some who take advantage of the situation, many of these people are genuinely leaving places which are war torn, should not go back there and indeed should be helped when they get somewhere safe, as it is the right thing to do.
However, with a union of 27/ 28 countries, surely whenever people are entering the EU as a refugee, it should be this sort of situation where the numbers coming through are absorbed across the members. Figure out a ratio of how people should be distributed between the various countries and ensure they are supported where they end up.
Does the fact that people see it being worth the risk of being drowned/ crushed to get from France to Dover say something on the level of support they get coming into Europe?
With regards to refugees, while there will always be some who take advantage of the situation, many of these people are genuinely leaving places which are war torn, should not go back there and indeed should be helped when they get somewhere safe, as it is the right thing to do.
However, with a union of 27/ 28 countries, surely whenever people are entering the EU as a refugee, it should be this sort of situation where the numbers coming through are absorbed across the members. Figure out a ratio of how people should be distributed between the various countries and ensure they are supported where they end up.
Does the fact that people see it being worth the risk of being drowned/ crushed to get from France to Dover say something on the level of support they get coming into Europe?
markcoznottz said:
‘Left of centre’ nowadays just means you don’t actually have an opinion. It’s the do nothing option. Taking the ops point, say that we had stayed in the eu, which removes the convenient hook to hang the blame on ‘right wingers’ via brexit, then presumably he’s ok with a system that allows people into the country to be used as slave labour/ exploited?.
I'm not sure it means that at all. How does the system allow people into the UK to be used/exploited as slave labour?coolg said:
He is saying once you get to the uk you can stay.
You might have a couple of difficult years but you have made it.
I would assume not right of centre.
Like bad late night movie I can't stop watching as his thread continues. You might have a couple of difficult years but you have made it.
I would assume not right of centre.
In summary.
He is advocating for an immigrant education centre where they perform national service, learn a trade and earn citizenship.
BUT if they put a foot wrong they they are out.
He is undoubtedly anti-immigrant but this proposed solution would attract immigrants in their droves. Strange viewpoint but interesting to observe.
TheFungle said:
A FB friend of mine, of who used I used to be a work colleague with quite a few years ago posts the occasional political point as his status.
He is clearly pro Brexit and whilst we don't agree with one another, he has never been especially controversial nor does he share nonsense 'Britain First' type posts. In summary we disagree but I like the fact it exposes me an opposing viewpoint.
Today he posted a fairly common viewpoint that he 'feels sorry for the young immigrant that died today but really the French should sort their border out and stop it from happening'.
I rose to the bait and replied with 'the French are under no obligation to help us and perhaps not we have left the EU, influencing may prove to be more difficult'.
Fairly generic TBH and highly the height of debate.
He then responded with this:
I posted this up on NP&EHe is clearly pro Brexit and whilst we don't agree with one another, he has never been especially controversial nor does he share nonsense 'Britain First' type posts. In summary we disagree but I like the fact it exposes me an opposing viewpoint.
Today he posted a fairly common viewpoint that he 'feels sorry for the young immigrant that died today but really the French should sort their border out and stop it from happening'.
I rose to the bait and replied with 'the French are under no obligation to help us and perhaps not we have left the EU, influencing may prove to be more difficult'.
Fairly generic TBH and highly the height of debate.
He then responded with this:
FB friend said:
But then people shouldn’t cry when dead teenagers get washed up in Calais.
My way would be simpler. If you get here, you get rounded up and put into a lockup, until we can establish who you are and why you are here. Genuine political asylum seekers can be given asylum. Those who are not are flown back to where they come from.
If we can’t establish where you come from, you spend 5 years in a “UK Initialisation Course”, where you live on a camp, you must learn English, you must do a years national service, a years community service and we will give you a trade qualification. Upon completion you get a nice NI number and citizenship. In that time, you’ve contributed to society, made an effort to adapt, represented your new countries military and been given a life skill.
If you still want to come here illegally knowing you won’t have any proper freedom for 5 years and your confident you can convince our authorities that we don’t know where you are from, then by all means, risk your life to make that journey across The Channel.
I don't mind admitting my political view are left of centre but this has really struck my as being a bit of an out there viewpoint - interested to hear the PH view. My way would be simpler. If you get here, you get rounded up and put into a lockup, until we can establish who you are and why you are here. Genuine political asylum seekers can be given asylum. Those who are not are flown back to where they come from.
If we can’t establish where you come from, you spend 5 years in a “UK Initialisation Course”, where you live on a camp, you must learn English, you must do a years national service, a years community service and we will give you a trade qualification. Upon completion you get a nice NI number and citizenship. In that time, you’ve contributed to society, made an effort to adapt, represented your new countries military and been given a life skill.
If you still want to come here illegally knowing you won’t have any proper freedom for 5 years and your confident you can convince our authorities that we don’t know where you are from, then by all means, risk your life to make that journey across The Channel.
Seriously - what is wrong with you as a parent to drag your kid thousands of miles across dozens of very safe countries to then put them aboard a Halfords dinghy to try to cross the world's busiest shipping lane - in the hope that you don't drown.
I also posted up.... the second you leave the first safe country you land in - you are no longer a refugee - but an economic migrant.
And... The UK needs to play our part here... If they land in Greece etc and claim "Asylum" - and it is proven - we take out fair share ( which means we will likely have more than we do now )
And... Merkel f
ked the whole thing up - by declaring - "All migrants welcome" - and the EU was engulfed by economic migrants. Not all of the EU is onboard with this.And... Funny they all lose all documentation when they land here.
I would be more than happy with a policy of - if they declare Asylum in the first country we land - we take our fair share. If they land on these shores - we will find a nice place in one of the currently uninhabited islands in the Falklands - and we make a new community,
We have legal economic migrants spending a lot of money to get here. Those illegals who do get here - are cheating the system and others out of their place.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Wednesday 19th August 22:57
Troubleatmill said:
I posted this up on NP&E
Seriously - what is wrong with you as a parent to drag your kid thousands of miles across dozens of very safe countries to then put them abort a Halfords dinghy to try to cross the world's busiest shipping lane - in the hope that you don't drown.
I also posted up.... the second you leave the first safe country you land in - you are no longer a refugee - but an economic migrant.
And... The UK needs to play our part here... If they land in Greece etc and claim "Asylum" - and it is porven - we take out fair share ( which means we will likely have more than we do now )
And... Merkel fked the whole thing up - by declaring - "All migrants welcome" - and the EU was engulfed by economic migrants. Not all of the EU is onboard with this.
And... Funny they all lose all documentation when they land here.
I would be more than happy with a policy of - if they declare Asylum in the first country we land - we take our fair share. If they land on these shores - we will find a nice place in one of the currently uninhabited islands in the Falklands - and we make a new community,
We have legal economic migrants spending a lot of money to get here. Those illegals who do get here - are cheating the system and others out of their place.
I've heard this several times about refugees having to seek asylum in the first safe country they cross, would you mind pointing me in the direction of the policy that dictates this.Seriously - what is wrong with you as a parent to drag your kid thousands of miles across dozens of very safe countries to then put them abort a Halfords dinghy to try to cross the world's busiest shipping lane - in the hope that you don't drown.
I also posted up.... the second you leave the first safe country you land in - you are no longer a refugee - but an economic migrant.
And... The UK needs to play our part here... If they land in Greece etc and claim "Asylum" - and it is porven - we take out fair share ( which means we will likely have more than we do now )
And... Merkel f
ked the whole thing up - by declaring - "All migrants welcome" - and the EU was engulfed by economic migrants. Not all of the EU is onboard with this.And... Funny they all lose all documentation when they land here.
I would be more than happy with a policy of - if they declare Asylum in the first country we land - we take our fair share. If they land on these shores - we will find a nice place in one of the currently uninhabited islands in the Falklands - and we make a new community,
We have legal economic migrants spending a lot of money to get here. Those illegals who do get here - are cheating the system and others out of their place.
TheFungle said:
I've heard this several times about refugees having to seek asylum in the first safe country they cross, would you mind pointing me in the direction of the policy that dictates this.
In the context of the EU, this page implies it is the Dublin Regulation which lays down criteria for determining the Member State responsible for examining an application for international protection (in principle the first country of entry). https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet...
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/t...
Seems a vaguely valid viewpoint. No swearing nothing particularly racist. It seems as valid (in a different direction) as saying we should welcome them with open arms. This morning I removed a "friend" swearing at me because I dared ponder why we look down at certain regimes who threaten and imprison their citizens while we now do the same to massive public support. Your friend seems perfectly sane and rational to me!
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
TheFungle said:
the French are under no obligation to help us
Why do you feel that the French are under no obligation to deal with illegal immigrants in their country?In the context of Europe we have chosen to fly solo and as yet have no agreement in place how the border will be treated in the future.
Therefore how we control our border is of no-ones concern but ours.
TheFungle said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
TheFungle said:
the French are under no obligation to help us
Why do you feel that the French are under no obligation to deal with illegal immigrants in their country?In the context of Europe we have chosen to fly solo and as yet have no agreement in place how the border will be treated in the future.
Therefore how we control our border is of no-ones concern but ours.
Ridgemont said:
It’s an interesting point though: ignore the destination (here). Why is the French government standing back as their northern seaboard sees large numbers of homeless young people milling around without intervention and subject to criminal gangs and god knows what else?
To add....knowing that there is a high probability they will be trying to make a crossing of a dangerous shipping lane in circumstances where the chances of them dying are not negligible.They are safe on land in France. How they got there is very much France's issue. Just letting them set sail is hardly an "answer"...whether we're in the EU or not.
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