Are EV drivers Eco warriors ?

[J4CKO]

As per the title, a lot of people when discussing any kind of Electric vehicle start rattling on about "virtue signalling" and then go on to cite all the reasons why EV manufacture and electricity production are the greatest threats to nature, completely glossing over any little issues oil extraction and usage causes.

I know someone who bought a Model S, not an eco warrior, just likes a swift, comfy car and paying as little to fuel it as possible. I know a lady with a Leaf who does social work locally and it suits her, she gets x p per mile so makes money on that as it costs pennies to run.

The other Tesla owner I know, bought one as it accelerates like a ride at Alton Towers, he is wealthy and likes gadgets/having the latest thing.

None of them said they are saving the planet or made any indication its motivated by anything of the sort.



But, loads of middle aged and older men seem to get really animated about them and pour scorn on the owners based on them having perceived position of eco piousness that, based on my anecdotal evidence doesnt seem to exist.

Does anyone thinks spending 100 grand on a big luxury car with batteries is saving the planet ?


Mods, can this stay n GG please, its not a specific EV thread, ok well it is but putting it in the EV subforum is like asking "Hands up, who likes guns" at an NRA meeting.

[PixelpeepZ4]

J4CKO said:

As per the title, a lot of people when discussing any kind of Electric vehicle start rattling on about "virtue signalling" and then go on to cite all the reasons why EV manufacture and electricity production are the greatest threats to nature, completely glossing over any little issues oil extraction and usage causes.

I know someone who bought a Model S, not an eco warrior, just likes a swift, comfy car and paying as little to fuel it as possible. I know a lady with a Leaf who does social work locally and it suits her, she gets x p per mile so makes money on that as it costs pennies to run.

The other Tesla owner I know, bought one as it accelerates like a ride at Alton Towers, he is wealthy and likes gadgets/having the latest thing.

None of them said they are saving the planet or made any indication its motivated by anything of the sort.



But, loads of middle aged and older men seem to get really animated about them and pour scorn on the owners based on them having perceived position of eco piousness that, based on my anecdotal evidence doesnt seem to exist.

Does anyone thinks spending 100 grand on a big luxury car with batteries is saving the planet ?


Mods, can this stay n GG please, its not a specific EV thread, ok well it is but putting it in the EV subforum is like asking "Hands up, who likes guns" at an NRA meeting.

I don't really understand your question, or your own viewpoint.

We've owned an i3 for just over 3 years now, and are in the process of getting an e-niro. - neither of these are 100k - less than half that.

i don't think we are saving the planet either - but i do think it's better than driving their ICE equivalents.

EVs are not the saviour of the planet - but they are helping, both in less overall pollution and more importantly, they're making people think about the environment in general.

(disclaimer - we also own a 3.0 twin turbo petrol car... but that's just for fun..)

[The spinner of plates]

The two 'owners' I know both lease them for BiK reasons.

Plus they have charging points at work nobody else uses - and they're at the front near the door, handy for when it's raining.

And they have expense accounts for planes / trains when visiting clients or sites the other side of the country.

Neither are that into the environment, but like the side-effect that others feel they are 'doing their bit', especially clients.

Although one freely admits that in the long term batteries will likely be proved not as CSR as they are thought now. It's all about cost - makes his old M6 GC look ridiculously, impossibly expensive.

[WonkeyDonkey]

In my opinion the initial buyers would typically be coming from another car thats under 5 years old. It's not environmentally friendly to be buying brand new cars every few years even if the method of propulsion is cleaner.

What it does do though is kick start a supply chain of vehicles that are more environmentally friendly. These should trickly down over the years through the second hand market. The majority of buyers that pay cash for cars can't really afford what EV's currently cost. But once they get down into the £4k-£8k bracket it opens up to a whole new market that are currently rolling about in 4-8 year old dirty cars.

As long as the batteries and associated electronics can last a 10-15year typical lifespan of a normal petrol car then the lifetime emissions will be significantly lower. (as long as we don't have to fire up our coal power plants again!)

[jjwilde]

I like fast cars but yes, I do want cleaner local air.

[Scrump]

I had a PHEV and used it alongside my 911 and do not consider myself an eco warrior.
A neighbour has changed his Jaguar for a Model S as he likes the quietness and the performance, he still has a motorbike and is not an eco warrior.

Another neighbour has a Leaf and is a bit of an eco warrior but drove a diesel before.

If an eco warrior needs to drive then I am sure they would be attracted to an electric vehicles so EV drivers may have a higher percentage of eco warriors than with ice powered cars.

[NDA]

As a long-term owner of V12's and V8's I'm obviously very concerned about polar bears and badgers.

However I would consider (am considering) an EV as my daily drive - whilst maintaining a V8 in the garage for high days and holidays.

An EV is on the list simply because fuelling a thirsty Range Rover is £130 a pop... the services costs, the road tax etc etc. When there is a cheaper alternative, it would be mad not to consider it. I rarely travel over 200 miles in a day and an overnight charge would be no hassle.

I am not an eco warrior and don't eat muesli or crushed avocado.

[Terminator X]

"What it does do though is kick start a supply chain of vehicles that are more environmentally friendly"

If that is your thing, just run the current car in to the ground over 40 years or whatever. Surely every new car produced whether EV or ICE is "bad" for the environment?

TX.

[sjg]

I like how they drive first and foremost. If you do a lot of suburban, traffic-filled driving then they’re better than anything. Plus you get to use all the performance even cold straight off your driveway, no waiting for it to heat up. On that, also pre-heating or cooling the cabin before you set off is lovely.

Cheap running costs are nice. The convenience of
filling up on my driveway while I sleep is nice. Not using up fossil fuels is nice too, but a lot further down the list.

[bristolracer]

It's just a car with a different form of propulsion.
It has some advantages it has some disadvantages

If the maths worked for me then I'd have one, but it doesn't so I dont.
Choose what works for you. I expect thats what most owners have done.

[kambites]

I think EVs have gone well beyond the "Eco warriors" thing now.

I suspect most buyers are moderately concerned about the environment, but clearly not concerned enough to run a shed into the ground or even better simply not drive. I think, beyond the taxation advantages, EVs are bought with the mindset of "I want to maintain my current standard of living in the greenest way easily possible". Some will buy them through concern about local air quality.

I think we're very close to the cut off point for them being primarily bought by people who simply think "I want a new car that best suits my personal needs" though.

Edited by kambites on Monday 24th August 12:14

[jjwilde]

Terminator X said:

"What it does do though is kick start a supply chain of vehicles that are more environmentally friendly"

If that is your thing, just run the current car in to the ground over 40 years or whatever. Surely every new car produced whether EV or ICE is "bad" for the environment?

TX.

Keeping an old diesel on the road is bad for the local environment tho. It would be better to get rid of it and join a car club or similar.

I actually think car clubs are a good answer to things, far fewer cars needed and they can all be EVs.

[Greg_D]

I work on the premise that any new car is terrible from a manufacturing PoV.

I also work on the premise that i am going to continue buying new cars because i am a hypocrite and don't 'genuinely' care for the environment (i nod to it like everyone else, but not enough to fundamentally change my buying patterns...)

So... it's a no brainer to go electric from a recycling PoV as the batteries can be reused for some time. either as new batteries or static storage.
there is practically nothing to go wrong - the reliability is excellent
they cost a lot less to power, and you're not burning a scarce resource
they encourage the development and acceleration of renewable electricity generation, look at the rampant change of the energy mix over the last 10 years!!!
they are generally quicker than the petrol equivalent
they are LOADS cheaper for company car users

that's why i flip and flop into and out of electric cars. They are a genuinely welcome addition to the nations' fleet IMO. Yes they can't do every single job at the moment, but they are improving at a pace.

[otolith]

I think early adopters were perhaps eco-warriors, back when the cars were slow, dull, worthy things. Same people who bought the first hybrids when they were slow, dull, worthy things - whereas now hybrids are just normal. What Tesla have done is kickstart the idea that they don't have to be like that, and I really don't understand why so many people who think they are car enthusiasts hate them for it. They've saved us from being forced into Zoes and Leafs.

[Richard-D]

J4CKO said:

I know someone who bought a Model S, not an eco warrior, just likes a swift, comfy car and paying as little to fuel it as possible.

Equates to the same as paying £5k on solar panels to save £20 on electricity. Or when <2005 Range Rovers were selling for £2k more than later models as they saved £200 a year on road tax. Makes so sense.

J4CKO said:

The other Tesla owner I know, bought one as it accelerates like a ride at Alton Towers, he is wealthy and likes gadgets/having the latest thing.

That's a good reason to buy one. Have money, want something, buy it. That's what money's for.

J4CKO said:

None of them said they are saving the planet or made any indication its motivated by anything of the sort.

No reason why they should.

J4CKO said:

But, loads of middle aged and older men seem to get really animated about them and pour scorn on the owners

No they don't. 2 weirdos do but 'loads' certainly don't. Some owners also seem to view anything that isn't 100% positive as scorn being poured. Just more of the current 'being offended by everything' attitude that makes that kind of person so tedious.

J4CKO said:

Does anyone thinks spending 100 grand on a big luxury car with batteries is saving the planet ?

If they do they're fairly dim.

J4CKO said:

Mods, can this stay n GG please, its not a specific EV thread, ok well it is but putting it in the EV subforum is like asking "Hands up, who likes guns" at an NRA meeting.

It seems that 'no' is the answer to that one. That's probably right though, It's not fair to subject any more people than necessary to Rob

edit: road tax change wrong way round, you know what I meant though.

Edited by Richard-D on Monday 24th August 13:16

[J4CKO]

Yeah, lol, I think the mods can be a bit literal, funny how the electrified Rolls Royce thread managed to stay in GG though ? Oh and the Rimac Two....

I am quite pro EV, not sure I want one but I love the tech and pace of development.

just gets my goat when people peg all the owners as being sanctimonious, I think a lot is down to a lack of understanding and not being able to afford a new car, and most EV's are still pretty new and maybe seen as something for "rich" people, like not everyone got diesels at first until theyr started trickling through and people got comfortable with them, enjoying the frugality and and torque.

Some folk cant get their head round ECUs on petrol engines so something without an engine will scare them right off.

[otolith]

Richard-D said:

J4CKO said:

I know someone who bought a Model S, not an eco warrior, just likes a swift, comfy car and paying as little to fuel it as possible.

Equates to the same as paying £5k on solar panels to save £20 on electricity. Or when >2005 Range Rovers were selling for £2k more than earlier models as they saved £200 a year on road tax. Makes so sense.

Doesn't really though, does it? More like me the other week feeling very smug because I scored four half kilo lobsters straight off the boat for £16/kg when the shops are £30/kg - but I could have fed everyone with a pound of mince and some pasta.

[Terminator X]

otolith said:

Richard-D said:

J4CKO said:

I know someone who bought a Model S, not an eco warrior, just likes a swift, comfy car and paying as little to fuel it as possible.

Equates to the same as paying £5k on solar panels to save £20 on electricity. Or when >2005 Range Rovers were selling for £2k more than earlier models as they saved £200 a year on road tax. Makes so sense.

Doesn't really though, does it? More like me the other week feeling very smug because I scored four half kilo lobsters straight off the boat for £16/kg when the shops are £30/kg - but I could have fed everyone with a pound of mince and some pasta.

You get his point though "look at my tiny running costs" when he has blown £100k to buy it.

TX.

[Greg_D]

Terminator X said:

otolith said:

Richard-D said:

J4CKO said:

I know someone who bought a Model S, not an eco warrior, just likes a swift, comfy car and paying as little to fuel it as possible.

Equates to the same as paying £5k on solar panels to save £20 on electricity. Or when >2005 Range Rovers were selling for £2k more than earlier models as they saved £200 a year on road tax. Makes so sense.

Doesn't really though, does it? More like me the other week feeling very smug because I scored four half kilo lobsters straight off the boat for £16/kg when the shops are £30/kg - but I could have fed everyone with a pound of mince and some pasta.

You get his point though "look at my tiny running costs" when he has blown £100k to buy it.

TX.

yes and no... if someone is going to spend £100k anyway, then the option with lower running costs is a valid comparison. that's saying nothing of the 'eco bling' that is the modern version of 'my car has air conditioning...' it's simply a point of differentiation

[otolith]

Terminator X said:

You get his point though "look at my tiny running costs" when he has blown £100k to buy it.

I do - but you have to compare it to what he would have paid otherwise for something similarly big and fast from AMG or ///M or RS, or what else he would have had to settle for at the same total cost of ownership (something smaller or slower or older or all three). Someone paying 100k for a brand new Tesla, or M5, or E63, or RS6 may well arguably have more money than sense, but that doesn't mean that they have no sense or infinite money.