Is this a really stupid idea?!

[bad_panda]

For a while now I've been thinking about buying an old 4x4 and doing a bit of a camper conversion on it, but the cost has always been prohibitive. I really want a LWB pre-2001 (for the cheaper tax) Shogun or Pajero, but even the ropey looking ones with 150k + on the clock still seem to go for a couple of grand or more. Also, manuals are comparatively rare and I'd rather have a manual as it's less weight and less to go wrong.

Yesterday I spotted a LWB 2.8 TD manual with 178k miles on the clock for £1k. Unsurprisingly it's tatty, with a few scrapes and rust patches on the body, filthy interior, damage to some of the seats etc but the body looks straight, it apparently drives and runs fine and it's still got 9 months of MOT. It's had at least 10 owners though and I've got no idea if it has any service history as I couldn't get in touch with the seller when I tried earlier.
Unfortunately it's miles away and especially given the current situation, there's no way for me to look at it, so I'd literally be buying it over the phone and getting it delivered.
I realise how insane this sounds, and I'm questioning my own sanity for even considering it, but I'm reasoning on the following:

- They tend to be pretty bullet-proof even at higher mileages
- It's unlikely to have had any serious off-road abuse as it looks standard
- Even if it ends up needing something major like a new gearbox or even an entire new head, it still works out cheaper than buying the next cheapest one I'm likely to find
- Worst-case I could probably get the best part of £300 for it scrap, so I'm risking nearer £700 than £1k

It'd be a second car so I wouldn't ever be reliant on it. I've also got space on the drive to leave it parked long-term if necessary.

What do you guys reckon? I suppose the fact I'm even posting this thread is evidence that I already know it's a stupid idea, but just how stupid is it?
Or is it actually genius as a small part of my brain is insisting it is?

I'd never normally even consider this but I've become a bit obsessed with these old Shoguns and Pajeros...

[Macron]

1) There is a car buying folder.

2) They rust for a pass time.

3) What difference will service history make on a grand banger?

4) Keep your eye on gumtree, you'll find something local.

5) And buy an MPV. Much easier to do the convert.

[sunbeam alpine]

They both rust really badly, often in places you don't see until it's pretty terminal.

Do you actually need 4x4? If you don't there are a lot more possibilities.

[A1VDY]

Once had a Pajero years ago. A jap import swb 2.8 so it was totally rust free but... the fuel consumption was dire, 20-25mpg if you're lucky.

[Bill]

Macron said:

5) And buy an MPV. Much easier to do the convert.

This. But what do you want to use it for (As in camping and driving where)?

Big 4x4s command a premium and have more to go wrong with more parts availability issues.

Personally I'd rather sleep in a tent than a car. They're warmer with less condensation and have more space.

[bad_panda]

Yeah unfortunately an MPV won't cut it for a lot of the stuff I want to do. As well as visiting places accessed via green lanes/worse, I'd be using it to get about during flooding as well (which happens most years where I live) so the extra wading depth would be really handy even when not using it as a camper.

Good point about the service history. I suppose it's just reassuring even on an old banger but also unlikely at that sort of price.

The potential rust does worry me, although I'm thinking if it got through an MOT 3 months ago then how bad can it be? Ignoring the possibility of a dodgy MOT...
I'd buy it on a credit card just for the extra consumer rights in case it turned up falling to bits, for what it's worth...

As for fuel economy, my daily is an E92 M3 so I'm already well accustomed to crying at petrol stations

I suppose it comes down to "Can I afford to lose £800 if it just ends up scrap?"! I'm tempted. It's not like I'd be risking paying my mortgage or anything, but obviously £800 is still a lot of money to gamble on anything.
Maybe I should just keep on watching Gumtree but they do seem to be really rare at this kind of money. Probably for good reason though

[Jaaack]

They're not as bulletproof as you might think. The diesels have a bit of a reputation for blowing the head gasket and cracking the head in some cases. Some say the 2.8 is more reliable, some prefer the 2.5. If the cooling system is well maintained, it should dramatically improve their chance of survival. Maybe worth looking into upgraded radiators etc. 2.5 is belt, 2.8 is chain.

They pop up quite often with mechanical issues (head gasket, snapped timing belt or whatever) so it may be wise to find one in this state but with a very good body and chassis. Depends how willing/able you are to mess around repairing or swapping engines. I saw a rare 2.8 Fieldmaster for sale the other day, it was around £300 with a failed timing chain tensioner. This would be the exact sort of thing I'll be looking for when I've built my garage - a car I really want to own at some point is a MK1 or 2 Pajero, but converted to run a VW 1.9TDI. If you're looking at something to keep for a long time and do some long trips in, this conversion makes a lot of sense but it'll obviously need a fair bit of custom work and development. Not sure if it's ever been done before, but it'd make one so much nicer to drive, and dramatically improve fuel consumption, reliability and performance.

These cars are owned by a wide variety of people, from oldies that just nip to the garden centre once a month, to builders that fill them with rubble every day. If the photos show it outside an absolute dive of a house then maybe steer clear.

I'd take a Pajero over a Shogun any day, they tend to have more spec and look a lot nicer. All of the chrome trim on Pajeros is just black plastic on Shoguns.

Also, I don't think you'd ever lose money on one, especially if you buy a nice one. Look at the price of JDM import Pajeros in America if you need convincing! Most are now over 25yrs old so can be sold to America legally when you come to sell.

[bad_panda]

Jaaack said:

They're not as bulletproof as you might think. The diesels have a bit of a reputation for blowing the head gasket and cracking the head in some cases. Some say the 2.8 is more reliable, some prefer the 2.5. If the cooling system is well maintained, it should dramatically improve their chance of survival. Maybe worth looking into upgraded radiators etc. 2.5 is belt, 2.8 is chain.

They pop up quite often with mechanical issues (head gasket, snapped timing belt or whatever) so it may be wise to find one in this state but with a very good body and chassis. Depends how willing/able you are to mess around repairing or swapping engines. I saw a rare 2.8 Fieldmaster for sale the other day, it was around £300 with a failed timing chain tensioner. This would be the exact sort of thing I'll be looking for when I've built my garage - a car I really want to own at some point is a MK1 or 2 Pajero, but converted to run a VW 1.9TDI. If you're looking at something to keep for a long time and do some long trips in, this conversion makes a lot of sense but it'll obviously need a fair bit of custom work and development. Not sure if it's ever been done before, but it'd make one so much nicer to drive, and dramatically improve fuel consumption, reliability and performance.

These cars are owned by a wide variety of people, from oldies that just nip to the garden centre once a month, to builders that fill them with rubble every day. If the photos show it outside an absolute dive of a house then maybe steer clear.

I'd take a Pajero over a Shogun any day, they tend to have more spec and look a lot nicer. All of the chrome trim on Pajeros is just black plastic on Shoguns.

Also, I don't think you'd ever lose money on one, especially if you buy a nice one. Look at the price of JDM import Pajeros in America if you need convincing! Most are now over 25yrs old so can be sold to America legally when you come to sell.

Yeah one thing I've read loads about is cracked heads. I've been trying to think of a list of the most expensive things likely to be wrong with it and have come up with:

1. Cracked head
2. Damaged diffs
3. Broken gearbox
4. Chassis rusted beyond repair
5. Damaged bottom-end

A cracked head wouldn't be too bad as I've done head swaps before and I've found some reputable places selling brand new, all-metal heads (non-Chinese ones) for £250 - £300.

Replacement diffs seem to go for about £150 each so not bad at all.

Replacement manual boxes seem to go for about £350, so again, not too bad.

Chassis rusted beyond repair would obviously be a major problem, but I'm thinking if that's the case it's clearly not as described, the MOT is likely fake and I can reject it on delivery.

I'm still awaiting prices on a replacement bottom end but I did find a complete replacement 4m40 engine for £700, and individual parts don't seem too bad even for new aftermarket cranks, rods etc.
Also if it's running and driveable with no ominous noises then a knackered bottom end seems really unlikely.

Of course it'd start to get very expensive if it turned out to have all of the above problems But again, that seems very unlikely and I'd be in a strong position to reject the sale and get my money back.


The thing that puts me off Pajeros is the insurance. I found it impossible to even get a quote for day insurance because they're imports, and even normal annual insurance was quite a lot more expensive. For something I'll probably do 1,000 miles per year in tops, I want to keep costs down as much as possible, thus why I'm even considering buying something like this with a hell of a lot to go wrong without even seeing or driving it. And let's face it, at that price it's going to need time and money putting into it. The gamble is on it needing hundreds rather than thousands...
You're right though, the Pajeros do seem to be nicer and they hold their money well.

[tomsugden]

A delica would be a better starting point for a camper conversion, and they're basically a Shogun underneath with 4wd and low ratio etc

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MISUBISHI-DELICA/303663...

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-vehicles/mitsubish...

[TurboHatchback]

Proper 4x4s have a lot of stuff to go wrong, there are so many gears, shafts, bearings, joints, oil seals etc. Personally I wouldn't touch one without driving it first, it might be great but also it might make all sorts of strange noises and be leaking oil from half a dozen places. Depending on what your planned usage is this can be no problem at all or deal breaking, pay&play custom offroad specials aren't fussed about this sort of thing but if you plan to keep it road legal and use it for long journeys then the niggles could add up to multiples of the purchase price quite quickly.

Also the suggestion about the Delica is quite correct though they tend to be more expensive for this very reason.

[bad_panda]

I did consider a Delica but it's only the gen 3/L300 ones that are based on the Shogun chassis, and they've got some weird quirks like having access to the engine from inside the cabin and having the front seats directly over the front axle. I think they're great for more tame overlanding stuff, but of all the offroaders I watch on YouTube, I've never once seen one on any of their trips. They also don't look much bigger than a SWB Shogun and I'm after something LWB Shogun, or at least Patrol GR or Prado sized.

The Shogun I was deliberating over has sold anyway, so it's all moot now. Clearly someone else has bigger balls than I do or is just crazier than me