Family bus... Outlander PHEV? Passat GTE?
Discussion
Looking for a vehicle with more space for growing family. Thinking of trading the Prius in because it’s the oldest car we have.
Plenty of options for nice estates and things, but they’re nearly all diesel and I just don’t wanna do it. I especially don’t want to be spending 15k on a diesel really. A few grand on a diesel shed, maybe, but I want to try keep at least a hybrid drivetrain or better.
To that end, I see Outlander PHEVs are getting quite cheap. I mean 10-12k for a first gen, around 15 for a newer one. Are they much of a risk? I know:
1) Mitsubishi are all but out of the U.K. now (or will be shortly), so getting things fixed might be hard (I’d service it myself probably)
2) The outlander has that battery deg “issue” which might not be an issue and more just overly conservative software
3) most of them have probably never been plugged in!
I think a PHEV really suits our use at that kind of money as we do drive a lot and we could cover our many short excursions on battery with frequent topping up and then use the engine to get to further afield places like work, granny’s house, etc etc. If 4-5 year old ones will still do 20 miles EV range, I think they could work for us.
There is also the Passat GTE. More expensive and the ones in range seem to have quite a lot of miles for their age (70-80k) on 3 year old cars. But I don’t know much about them bar 20-25 miles range and the EV motor is only 80hp which seems a bit weak for a big car (whereas in the Oultander the motors are the main drive so EV mode isn’t limp)
Any comments on these two?
Plenty of options for nice estates and things, but they’re nearly all diesel and I just don’t wanna do it. I especially don’t want to be spending 15k on a diesel really. A few grand on a diesel shed, maybe, but I want to try keep at least a hybrid drivetrain or better.
To that end, I see Outlander PHEVs are getting quite cheap. I mean 10-12k for a first gen, around 15 for a newer one. Are they much of a risk? I know:
1) Mitsubishi are all but out of the U.K. now (or will be shortly), so getting things fixed might be hard (I’d service it myself probably)
2) The outlander has that battery deg “issue” which might not be an issue and more just overly conservative software
3) most of them have probably never been plugged in!
I think a PHEV really suits our use at that kind of money as we do drive a lot and we could cover our many short excursions on battery with frequent topping up and then use the engine to get to further afield places like work, granny’s house, etc etc. If 4-5 year old ones will still do 20 miles EV range, I think they could work for us.
There is also the Passat GTE. More expensive and the ones in range seem to have quite a lot of miles for their age (70-80k) on 3 year old cars. But I don’t know much about them bar 20-25 miles range and the EV motor is only 80hp which seems a bit weak for a big car (whereas in the Oultander the motors are the main drive so EV mode isn’t limp)
Any comments on these two?
Otispunkmeyer said:
1) Mitsubishi are all but out of the U.K. now (or will be shortly), so getting things fixed might be hard (I’d service it myself probably)
Colt Car Company, the UK importers are independent from Mitsubishi themselves and have said they'll continue to provide servicing and parts. So not necessarily a terrible thing, though that's assuming they don't go bust in the process. They seem to be looking for another brand to import, presumably some new chinese EV brand, to find things for their dealerships to do.We bought an Outlander a couple of years ago now. It was £14.5k. Probably not lost a while heap of value in that time.
Ours is charged every night and had no battery degradation issues. Will generally do 20 miles in the battery. In fact we have had no mechanical issues, but then we've only done about 25,000 miles with it.
The interior is not the most stylish, but it isn't offensive either. It's wearing pretty well to our toddlers antics. It isn't the fastest, or most engaging drive but it's fairly effortless and quiet. I've seen people complain about the ride but not had much of an issue myself.
As a new buy they are ridiculous but at this sort of price range, provided the plug in hybrid range works for your needs there isn't much else out there, or at least there wasn't at the time we bought ours.
Ours is charged every night and had no battery degradation issues. Will generally do 20 miles in the battery. In fact we have had no mechanical issues, but then we've only done about 25,000 miles with it.
The interior is not the most stylish, but it isn't offensive either. It's wearing pretty well to our toddlers antics. It isn't the fastest, or most engaging drive but it's fairly effortless and quiet. I've seen people complain about the ride but not had much of an issue myself.
As a new buy they are ridiculous but at this sort of price range, provided the plug in hybrid range works for your needs there isn't much else out there, or at least there wasn't at the time we bought ours.
The VW works better as a short-range electric car IMO. They can heat the cabin (including preheat, whether plugged in or not) and unless you press the throttle so hard you hit the kickdown switch, it'll stay in EV mode with the engine off even up to motorway speeds. Quite possible to go for months without it firing up, which it eventually will force to prevent anything going awry from lack of use.
Spent 2 years in a Golf GTE, the electric-only mode is pokey enough for suburban speeds, 0-30 is as quick as any other mainstream car. If I'm going faster it's because I'm going a long way so I'd put in hybrid mode anyway and let it slowly drain down the battery rather than use it all up at the start.
The low end Outlanders don't have electric heating (need GX4h and above to get that) and need the petrol engine running to heat the cabin. They also need nursing the throttle to prevent the engine coming on to assist. Later models get an "EV Priority" mode but from what I've read there's still plenty of circumstances it'll run the engine. Still a good fuel saving overall but I'd find it grating to have enough battery to get where I want to go yet have the car burning petrol anyway.
If you like Toyota hybrids though there's some interesting JDM imports for that sort of money - there's a 2014 Toyota Voxy hybrid on ebay that looks great for a big boxy family minivan (disclaimer: I have a similar Honda Stepwgn for our family bus and I love it).
Spent 2 years in a Golf GTE, the electric-only mode is pokey enough for suburban speeds, 0-30 is as quick as any other mainstream car. If I'm going faster it's because I'm going a long way so I'd put in hybrid mode anyway and let it slowly drain down the battery rather than use it all up at the start.
The low end Outlanders don't have electric heating (need GX4h and above to get that) and need the petrol engine running to heat the cabin. They also need nursing the throttle to prevent the engine coming on to assist. Later models get an "EV Priority" mode but from what I've read there's still plenty of circumstances it'll run the engine. Still a good fuel saving overall but I'd find it grating to have enough battery to get where I want to go yet have the car burning petrol anyway.
If you like Toyota hybrids though there's some interesting JDM imports for that sort of money - there's a 2014 Toyota Voxy hybrid on ebay that looks great for a big boxy family minivan (disclaimer: I have a similar Honda Stepwgn for our family bus and I love it).
sjg said:
They also need nursing the throttle to prevent the engine coming on to assist. Later models get an "EV Priority" mode but from what I've read there's still plenty of circumstances it'll run the engine. Still a good fuel saving overall but I'd find it grating to have enough battery to get where I want to go yet have the car burning petrol anyway.
This isn't my experience of the car. I don't nurse the throttle when getting up to the NSL and the engine doesn't come on. This is with it in standard mode from the off not EV Priority. I can also drain the battery without the engine coming on and this is driving in the Yorkshire Wolds so not the flattest of places.I ran an Outlander PHEV for 2 years.
Arrived at 45,000km @ 93% SOH, charged every day left with 75,000 and 85% SOH. That for me seemed to go fine.
As for the car itself its nothing exciting at all but competent (for a suv), its quick enough but without the push of EV torque you get with most others. I wouldnt have bought it at all if it wasnt about the only plug in 4wd option in the price range but was more impressed with it than I expected long term
Heres a post I wrote elsewhere.
Android Phone + PHEV watchdog(free) + the right OBD2 dongle (check the website) will tell you all you need to know, worth buying or borrowing before you go shopping. Easy to use.
The car has a 12kwh battery as new, and keeps ~30% of it as reserve which means you can only use ~8-9kwh max when 100%.
Town driving thats good for 60+km or 30km highway, in summer.
My car (2014) was at ~75,000km and about 85% SOH when I sold it, wasnt charged in japan much at all IMO so arrived with 93% at 45,000km
Means I had about 7kwh usable, got about 50km city driving in summer.
Winter really hurt range on it, using heater etc cuts into small battery cars harder so can easily halve that.
Arrived at 45,000km @ 93% SOH, charged every day left with 75,000 and 85% SOH. That for me seemed to go fine.
As for the car itself its nothing exciting at all but competent (for a suv), its quick enough but without the push of EV torque you get with most others. I wouldnt have bought it at all if it wasnt about the only plug in 4wd option in the price range but was more impressed with it than I expected long term
Heres a post I wrote elsewhere.
Android Phone + PHEV watchdog(free) + the right OBD2 dongle (check the website) will tell you all you need to know, worth buying or borrowing before you go shopping. Easy to use.
The car has a 12kwh battery as new, and keeps ~30% of it as reserve which means you can only use ~8-9kwh max when 100%.
Town driving thats good for 60+km or 30km highway, in summer.
My car (2014) was at ~75,000km and about 85% SOH when I sold it, wasnt charged in japan much at all IMO so arrived with 93% at 45,000km
Means I had about 7kwh usable, got about 50km city driving in summer.
Winter really hurt range on it, using heater etc cuts into small battery cars harder so can easily halve that.
wassap said:
How about a Merc C class PHEV. They did both Diesel and petrol hybrids.
It's a nice car (I have a C350E estate) - but realistically you're not going to see 20miles on the battery, probably only just over half that.On the plus side, it's pretty quick and my 2016 model is tax exempt.
Merry said:
We bought an Outlander a couple of years ago now. It was £14.5k. Probably not lost a while heap of value in that time.
Ours is charged every night and had no battery degradation issues. Will generally do 20 miles in the battery. In fact we have had no mechanical issues, but then we've only done about 25,000 miles with it.
The interior is not the most stylish, but it isn't offensive either. It's wearing pretty well to our toddlers antics. It isn't the fastest, or most engaging drive but it's fairly effortless and quiet. I've seen people complain about the ride but not had much of an issue myself.
As a new buy they are ridiculous but at this sort of price range, provided the plug in hybrid range works for your needs there isn't much else out there, or at least there wasn't at the time we bought ours.
Exactly mirrors our Outlander experience. We are very satisfied with it and have had no issues. Local driving on electric and all-day motorway cruising at 37-40mpg when necessary (we would probably get more without roof bars and hefty Geolander A/T tyres).Ours is charged every night and had no battery degradation issues. Will generally do 20 miles in the battery. In fact we have had no mechanical issues, but then we've only done about 25,000 miles with it.
The interior is not the most stylish, but it isn't offensive either. It's wearing pretty well to our toddlers antics. It isn't the fastest, or most engaging drive but it's fairly effortless and quiet. I've seen people complain about the ride but not had much of an issue myself.
As a new buy they are ridiculous but at this sort of price range, provided the plug in hybrid range works for your needs there isn't much else out there, or at least there wasn't at the time we bought ours.
I like it because it is a simple layout - NA 2.0 petrol engine, no auto box. A lot of other PHEVs just seem to add layer after layer of complexity - turbo, auto or DSG box then on top of those the electric bits etc. etc. They never seem to take the opportunity to say 'what can we get rid of now we have the electric motors driving the car?'
I've just bought a 2016 PHEV outlander and as I've said in other threads, its probably the favourite car I've owned (and I've owned a lot!). It gets plugged in most days, just 3 pin. Its perfect for my travel profile - 4 miles to office, shopping, dogs. The level of toys is amazing - birds eye camera, sat nav, amazing sound system, touch media etc, heated seats/wheel/4wd. Load of boot space and really comfortable to drive. 200bhp petrol engine so it goes really well expecially on motorway but free tax! I have a motorbike for fun and find the fun challenge with this car is trying to drive on battery only!
Go for a 2015 upwards (you can tell as facelift has extra plastic around front grill) and get a decent spec.
Not aware of any major issues with them - I have a 17 month warranty with mine anyway but we'll see.
Go for a 2015 upwards (you can tell as facelift has extra plastic around front grill) and get a decent spec.
Not aware of any major issues with them - I have a 17 month warranty with mine anyway but we'll see.
wassap said:
How about a Merc C class PHEV. They did both Diesel and petrol hybrids.
I found the outlander incredible cheap feeling and the the Passat fuller than a very dull thing.
might be a bit pokey for rear facing seats in the back! a friend has a saloon and i didnt think it all that spacious inside. will check it out though as there is one at the dealer down the road.I found the outlander incredible cheap feeling and the the Passat fuller than a very dull thing.
ozzuk said:
Not aware of any major issues with them - I have a 17 month warranty with mine anyway but we'll see.
There was a handbrake issue on the earlier cars I think but not a big problemBiggest issue is the BMS is garbage and unable to be reprogrammed so drops the SOH sometimes too quickly. I've no idea what triggers it either.
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