Pavement parking ban consultation
Discussion
Looks pretty clear England and Wales will follow Scotland and London
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-08-30/consultation-l...
About time too in my view.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-08-30/consultation-l...
About time too in my view.
Here here!
It f
ks me off to see lazy bd/self centred parking like this.
Why should a family with a pushchair or a wheelchair user/elderly pedestrian or whatever be forced to walk into the road to get past when the very means provided to allow a safe passage (a FOOTpath) is occupied by a car or SUV?
Maybe if criminal damage was made legal to cars that are parked on the pavement obstructing a safe passage then it would cease overnight.
It f
ks me off to see lazy bd/self centred parking like this.Why should a family with a pushchair or a wheelchair user/elderly pedestrian or whatever be forced to walk into the road to get past when the very means provided to allow a safe passage (a FOOTpath) is occupied by a car or SUV?
Maybe if criminal damage was made legal to cars that are parked on the pavement obstructing a safe passage then it would cease overnight.
The idea that you can just leave your property (As long as it’s a car) on publicly owned and maintained space is sort of bonkers anyway, you couldn’t build a car-sized garden in the road outside your house, or keep a car sized pile of rubbish, or erect a statue of yourself, or... but if it’s a car it’s ok, it’s a bit weird, though I am not saying it’s wrong.
Pavement Parking: the majority of the time where this happens the road is wide enough for 2 cars to pass so it’s just people thinking they are being considerate (to motorists) but not thinking about the negative effects on pedestrians esp partially sighted or mobile ones, and it fks up the pavement. So ban it.
Pavement Parking: the majority of the time where this happens the road is wide enough for 2 cars to pass so it’s just people thinking they are being considerate (to motorists) but not thinking about the negative effects on pedestrians esp partially sighted or mobile ones, and it f
ks up the pavement. So ban it.The question I would ask is where do all the cars go?
Personally this wouldn't affect me, as I have two cars and 2 (or even 3 if I were to try hard, and replacing my up and over garage door with a roller would make it an easy 3) off-road spaces. From a rational point of view, of course it's correct to stop pavement parking. However, millions of cars cannot disappear overnight.
Take the area I live in. In an area of about 1.5km2 of residential streets, just about every single road will have every inch of available pavement with a car part on it. come mid-evening. I would guess there are hundreds, probably thousands in fact, of cars parked on the pavement just in this little area alone. There is nowhere else for these to go - nearest roads with some free space would be half a mile plus for many - and those roads would soon be rammed anyway.
So the problem is that we have created a society where we have for decades encouraged everyone to drive and own multiple cars because the increased mobility led to increased economic well being for the country, better social mobility etc. At the same time we built vast swathes of new housing which is very densely packed with little or no off-road parking and narrow streets that don't lend themselves to parking up to the kerb in many places (my area is mainly 1980s 1-3 bed houses, and almost all the 1 and 2 beds were built without off-road parking as were a fair few of the 3 beds).
It is very easy for those who have wherewithal to ensure all the off-road parking they require to say of course we should ban, because they don't need to deal with the consequences. I don't have the answer, but a total ban would be catastrophic economically unless the local councils decide to allow it in a vast array of suburban roads. Most of the thousands of residents in my area would need to either give up some of their vehicles (and probably jobs as a result) or would need to try and move (good luck finding somewhere with parking for a reasonable price after that change comes in).
It's a policy which worked reasonably well in London, firstly because of how long ago it came in, and secondly because you can actually get around fairly well on public transport in London. Outside London, bon chance...
Personally this wouldn't affect me, as I have two cars and 2 (or even 3 if I were to try hard, and replacing my up and over garage door with a roller would make it an easy 3) off-road spaces. From a rational point of view, of course it's correct to stop pavement parking. However, millions of cars cannot disappear overnight.
Take the area I live in. In an area of about 1.5km2 of residential streets, just about every single road will have every inch of available pavement with a car part on it. come mid-evening. I would guess there are hundreds, probably thousands in fact, of cars parked on the pavement just in this little area alone. There is nowhere else for these to go - nearest roads with some free space would be half a mile plus for many - and those roads would soon be rammed anyway.
So the problem is that we have created a society where we have for decades encouraged everyone to drive and own multiple cars because the increased mobility led to increased economic well being for the country, better social mobility etc. At the same time we built vast swathes of new housing which is very densely packed with little or no off-road parking and narrow streets that don't lend themselves to parking up to the kerb in many places (my area is mainly 1980s 1-3 bed houses, and almost all the 1 and 2 beds were built without off-road parking as were a fair few of the 3 beds).
It is very easy for those who have wherewithal to ensure all the off-road parking they require to say of course we should ban, because they don't need to deal with the consequences. I don't have the answer, but a total ban would be catastrophic economically unless the local councils decide to allow it in a vast array of suburban roads. Most of the thousands of residents in my area would need to either give up some of their vehicles (and probably jobs as a result) or would need to try and move (good luck finding somewhere with parking for a reasonable price after that change comes in).
It's a policy which worked reasonably well in London, firstly because of how long ago it came in, and secondly because you can actually get around fairly well on public transport in London. Outside London, bon chance...
Pumpkinz said:
The question I would ask is where do all the cars go?
Personally this wouldn't affect me, as I have two cars and 2 (or even 3 if I were to try hard, and replacing my up and over garage door with a roller would make it an easy 3) off-road spaces. From a rational point of view, of course it's correct to stop pavement parking. However, millions of cars cannot disappear overnight.
Take the area I live in. In an area of about 1.5km2 of residential streets, just about every single road will have every inch of available pavement with a car part on it. come mid-evening. I would guess there are hundreds, probably thousands in fact, of cars parked on the pavement just in this little area alone. There is nowhere else for these to go - nearest roads with some free space would be half a mile plus for many - and those roads would soon be rammed anyway.
So the problem is that we have created a society where we have for decades encouraged everyone to drive and own multiple cars because the increased mobility led to increased economic well being for the country, better social mobility etc. At the same time we built vast swathes of new housing which is very densely packed with little or no off-road parking and narrow streets that don't lend themselves to parking up to the kerb in many places (my area is mainly 1980s 1-3 bed houses, and almost all the 1 and 2 beds were built without off-road parking as were a fair few of the 3 beds).
It is very easy for those who have wherewithal to ensure all the off-road parking they require to say of course we should ban, because they don't need to deal with the consequences. I don't have the answer, but a total ban would be catastrophic economically unless the local councils decide to allow it in a vast array of suburban roads. Most of the thousands of residents in my area would need to either give up some of their vehicles (and probably jobs as a result) or would need to try and move (good luck finding somewhere with parking for a reasonable price after that change comes in).
It's a policy which worked reasonably well in London, firstly because of how long ago it came in, and secondly because you can actually get around fairly well on public transport in London. Outside London, bon chance...
What do pedestrians do in your area? Personally this wouldn't affect me, as I have two cars and 2 (or even 3 if I were to try hard, and replacing my up and over garage door with a roller would make it an easy 3) off-road spaces. From a rational point of view, of course it's correct to stop pavement parking. However, millions of cars cannot disappear overnight.
Take the area I live in. In an area of about 1.5km2 of residential streets, just about every single road will have every inch of available pavement with a car part on it. come mid-evening. I would guess there are hundreds, probably thousands in fact, of cars parked on the pavement just in this little area alone. There is nowhere else for these to go - nearest roads with some free space would be half a mile plus for many - and those roads would soon be rammed anyway.
So the problem is that we have created a society where we have for decades encouraged everyone to drive and own multiple cars because the increased mobility led to increased economic well being for the country, better social mobility etc. At the same time we built vast swathes of new housing which is very densely packed with little or no off-road parking and narrow streets that don't lend themselves to parking up to the kerb in many places (my area is mainly 1980s 1-3 bed houses, and almost all the 1 and 2 beds were built without off-road parking as were a fair few of the 3 beds).
It is very easy for those who have wherewithal to ensure all the off-road parking they require to say of course we should ban, because they don't need to deal with the consequences. I don't have the answer, but a total ban would be catastrophic economically unless the local councils decide to allow it in a vast array of suburban roads. Most of the thousands of residents in my area would need to either give up some of their vehicles (and probably jobs as a result) or would need to try and move (good luck finding somewhere with parking for a reasonable price after that change comes in).
It's a policy which worked reasonably well in London, firstly because of how long ago it came in, and secondly because you can actually get around fairly well on public transport in London. Outside London, bon chance...
Dont see pavement parking much since I left London but where I used to see it was on roads too narrow for normal passage without pavement parking, or by the sides of dual carriageways.
I cant remember any that I thought were being particularly inconsiderate. The need for it is no doubt why they havent banned it up till now. Doing so now is just more part of using the Covid-19 crisis to intensify the war on the motorist.
I cant remember any that I thought were being particularly inconsiderate. The need for it is no doubt why they havent banned it up till now. Doing so now is just more part of using the Covid-19 crisis to intensify the war on the motorist.
JagLover said:
Dont see pavement parking much since I left London but where I used to see it was on roads too narrow for normal passage without pavement parking, or by the sides of dual carriageways.
I cant remember any that I thought were being particularly inconsiderate. The need for it is no doubt why they havent banned it up till now. Doing so now is just more part of using the Covid-19 crisis to intensify the war on the motorist.
It's something which has been been in the pipeline for months, so isn't directly Covid related - https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.motor1.com/news/40... .I cant remember any that I thought were being particularly inconsiderate. The need for it is no doubt why they havent banned it up till now. Doing so now is just more part of using the Covid-19 crisis to intensify the war on the motorist.
I'll be glad to see it happen in the village I live in - roads are wide enough to not have to park on the pavement, but some inconsiderate sods still do. Causes a lot of problems for wheelchair users , for example.
The proposal is to extend the current legislation which applies in London to the whole country, so pavement parking becomes an offence, but district/borough councils can issue orders exempting areas from it. Just as they do in London already.
Hopefully. One of my neighbours just went half way across the country for a holiday, their parent went with them, instead of them parking their car on their child’s drive, they felt it better to leave it half parked on the pavement outside the house instead. Even when they come to visit for 10 minutes, they have to park on the pavement, the road is right next to a junction and is wide enough for at least three cars anyways.
Pumpkinz said:
The question I would ask is where do all the cars go?
Personally this wouldn't affect me, as I have two cars and 2 (or even 3 if I were to try hard, and replacing my up and over garage door with a roller would make it an easy 3) off-road spaces. From a rational point of view, of course it's correct to stop pavement parking. However, millions of cars cannot disappear overnight.
Take the area I live in. In an area of about 1.5km2 of residential streets, just about every single road will have every inch of available pavement with a car part on it. come mid-evening. I would guess there are hundreds, probably thousands in fact, of cars parked on the pavement just in this little area alone. There is nowhere else for these to go - nearest roads with some free space would be half a mile plus for many - and those roads would soon be rammed anyway.
So the problem is that we have created a society where we have for decades encouraged everyone to drive and own multiple cars because the increased mobility led to increased economic well being for the country, better social mobility etc. At the same time we built vast swathes of new housing which is very densely packed with little or no off-road parking and narrow streets that don't lend themselves to parking up to the kerb in many places (my area is mainly 1980s 1-3 bed houses, and almost all the 1 and 2 beds were built without off-road parking as were a fair few of the 3 beds).
It is very easy for those who have wherewithal to ensure all the off-road parking they require to say of course we should ban, because they don't need to deal with the consequences. I don't have the answer, but a total ban would be catastrophic economically unless the local councils decide to allow it in a vast array of suburban roads. Most of the thousands of residents in my area would need to either give up some of their vehicles (and probably jobs as a result) or would need to try and move (good luck finding somewhere with parking for a reasonable price after that change comes in).
It's a policy which worked reasonably well in London, firstly because of how long ago it came in, and secondly because you can actually get around fairly well on public transport in London. Outside London, bon chance...
Clrarly very long overdue, so it needs to change asap before it gets even worse.Personally this wouldn't affect me, as I have two cars and 2 (or even 3 if I were to try hard, and replacing my up and over garage door with a roller would make it an easy 3) off-road spaces. From a rational point of view, of course it's correct to stop pavement parking. However, millions of cars cannot disappear overnight.
Take the area I live in. In an area of about 1.5km2 of residential streets, just about every single road will have every inch of available pavement with a car part on it. come mid-evening. I would guess there are hundreds, probably thousands in fact, of cars parked on the pavement just in this little area alone. There is nowhere else for these to go - nearest roads with some free space would be half a mile plus for many - and those roads would soon be rammed anyway.
So the problem is that we have created a society where we have for decades encouraged everyone to drive and own multiple cars because the increased mobility led to increased economic well being for the country, better social mobility etc. At the same time we built vast swathes of new housing which is very densely packed with little or no off-road parking and narrow streets that don't lend themselves to parking up to the kerb in many places (my area is mainly 1980s 1-3 bed houses, and almost all the 1 and 2 beds were built without off-road parking as were a fair few of the 3 beds).
It is very easy for those who have wherewithal to ensure all the off-road parking they require to say of course we should ban, because they don't need to deal with the consequences. I don't have the answer, but a total ban would be catastrophic economically unless the local councils decide to allow it in a vast array of suburban roads. Most of the thousands of residents in my area would need to either give up some of their vehicles (and probably jobs as a result) or would need to try and move (good luck finding somewhere with parking for a reasonable price after that change comes in).
It's a policy which worked reasonably well in London, firstly because of how long ago it came in, and secondly because you can actually get around fairly well on public transport in London. Outside London, bon chance...
Just mark those pavements that are wide enough to park a car slightly off the road and encourage the rest to park elsewhere or give up a car if there's no space.
rscott said:
It's something which has been been in the pipeline for months, so isn't directly Covid related - https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.motor1.com/news/40... .
I'll be glad to see it happen in the village I live in - roads are wide enough to not have to park on the pavement, but some inconsiderate sods still do. Causes a lot of problems for wheelchair users , for example.
You say "some" but when I have seen it done it is by most, or indeed all, of the people parking on a particular stretch of street.I'll be glad to see it happen in the village I live in - roads are wide enough to not have to park on the pavement, but some inconsiderate sods still do. Causes a lot of problems for wheelchair users , for example.
I suspect there is a class issue creeping in here as well. As many of those condemning the practice no doubt live in areas where off-street parking is readily achievable.
The problem is there are too many cars. Forty years ago the parking in the council estate where I grew up wasn’t great but not too bad. Now every inch of pavement has a car on it and they are also using the grass verges on the main road off the top of the road.
Too many people and cars too cheap. When I was growing up a family might have had one car - now it could easily be three or four if there are adult children but there are no places to put them.
Personally I think that if you parking should be much more controlled with parking permits required in most places and the number of permits per house limited. Driving and living in urban areas would be so much better with fewer cars.
Too many people and cars too cheap. When I was growing up a family might have had one car - now it could easily be three or four if there are adult children but there are no places to put them.
Personally I think that if you parking should be much more controlled with parking permits required in most places and the number of permits per house limited. Driving and living in urban areas would be so much better with fewer cars.
Esceptico said:
The problem is there are too many cars. Forty years ago the parking in the council estate where I grew up wasn’t great but not too bad. Now every inch of pavement has a car on it and they are also using the grass verges on the main road off the top of the road.
Too many people and cars too cheap. When I was growing up a family might have had one car - now it could easily be three or four if there are adult children but there are no places to put them.
Personally I think that if you parking should be much more controlled with parking permits required in most places and the number of permits per house limited. Driving and living in urban areas would be so much better with fewer cars.
Or alternatively build enough parking for cars and tackle house prices. Too many people and cars too cheap. When I was growing up a family might have had one car - now it could easily be three or four if there are adult children but there are no places to put them.
Personally I think that if you parking should be much more controlled with parking permits required in most places and the number of permits per house limited. Driving and living in urban areas would be so much better with fewer cars.
Mum and Dad both have cars as both work and, speaking in general, mum has to ferry the kids around while dad is at work. Their children grow up and cant afford to move out because of house prices. They have jobs and drive to them and for social reasons.
Instead of trying to force everyone to conform to a lifestyle that only really works for the majority of the local population in central London look how people actually want to live and plan and provide accordingly. Britain would be a far better place if its ruling class didn't keep trying to force its people to live a lifestyle they don't want to live.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 31st August 11:14
Parking on pavements is a nuisance, but I suspect much of it is controlled by what the road itself is like, In areas of older housing, many of the dwellings were built before people even had cars, so often there is no provision for on property parking, and also not really any for in road parking outside the dwellings.
For modern housing estates, there is no excuse for not providing adequate parking areas either on the property itself, or as adjacent parking areas., Developers, and some local authorities nevertheless fail to provide adequate parking.
The developers don't provide adequate parking in their quest to cram as many dwellings onto a site as they possibly can, and local authorities in a misguided attempt to green' the area by deliberately making car ownership difficult or inconvenient.
Don't these organizations realize, that not only will a number of the occupants of the dwellings need a vehicle in their everyday lives, e.g getting to a distant workplace / shopping centre, or a school that is further away than their children could reasonably be expected to walk / cycle to, or be able to visit relatives or friends. etc? Don't they realize that some who must come a distance, might want to visit the occupants of the dwellings. On top of this delivery / emergency vehicles etc, will need vehicular access to the dwellings.
Of course the UK is a small over crowded island, so an objective study of the use of the available road / pavement space must be carried out to ensure what little space is available is utilized as efficiently as possible. To do this, some have suggested that on wider pavements, a painted line is used to mark the extent that a vehicle can put two wheels on the pavement, and still leave adequate space for pedestrians, whilst others have suggested looking at usage patterns to ensure that the greater number of road / pavement users are accommodated in favour of the group that uses the (often limited) available space the most. That way the most efficient use of what space is available is made. e.g Why have wide pavements that might be used by twenty or thirty people in a day, when the road they bound is used by hundreds of people in a day, and the same applies in reverse, where pedestrians form the bulk of the people using the available space.
Whatever is done it must be carried out in a measured and objective study of `real' use, real world conditions, and not a biased one way or the other, phantasy, I want the `this to be done' knee jerk fashion, which seems to be the way much of road use thinking, has been carried out to to date. We have too little space to allow this to be carried out the wrong way. There is a lot more to all of this, than just a knee jerk ban all cars from parking on all pavements approach, which if adopted will lead to a whole new raft of problems.
For modern housing estates, there is no excuse for not providing adequate parking areas either on the property itself, or as adjacent parking areas., Developers, and some local authorities nevertheless fail to provide adequate parking.
The developers don't provide adequate parking in their quest to cram as many dwellings onto a site as they possibly can, and local authorities in a misguided attempt to green' the area by deliberately making car ownership difficult or inconvenient.
Don't these organizations realize, that not only will a number of the occupants of the dwellings need a vehicle in their everyday lives, e.g getting to a distant workplace / shopping centre, or a school that is further away than their children could reasonably be expected to walk / cycle to, or be able to visit relatives or friends. etc? Don't they realize that some who must come a distance, might want to visit the occupants of the dwellings. On top of this delivery / emergency vehicles etc, will need vehicular access to the dwellings.
Of course the UK is a small over crowded island, so an objective study of the use of the available road / pavement space must be carried out to ensure what little space is available is utilized as efficiently as possible. To do this, some have suggested that on wider pavements, a painted line is used to mark the extent that a vehicle can put two wheels on the pavement, and still leave adequate space for pedestrians, whilst others have suggested looking at usage patterns to ensure that the greater number of road / pavement users are accommodated in favour of the group that uses the (often limited) available space the most. That way the most efficient use of what space is available is made. e.g Why have wide pavements that might be used by twenty or thirty people in a day, when the road they bound is used by hundreds of people in a day, and the same applies in reverse, where pedestrians form the bulk of the people using the available space.
Whatever is done it must be carried out in a measured and objective study of `real' use, real world conditions, and not a biased one way or the other, phantasy, I want the `this to be done' knee jerk fashion, which seems to be the way much of road use thinking, has been carried out to to date. We have too little space to allow this to be carried out the wrong way. There is a lot more to all of this, than just a knee jerk ban all cars from parking on all pavements approach, which if adopted will lead to a whole new raft of problems.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff