Parking ticket. Fraud surely.
Discussion
Just opened my mail to find a parking charge notice from North Wales 3 weeks ago.
This is from Smart Parking and shows a lovely photo of me car entering the car park at 08:26 and leaving at 13:39.
Ticket says that I have either "not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted"
This was from the LLanberis car park Snowdonia.
I paid £8 for all day parking (on my debit card so have proof) and also a photo of the sign which clearly states all day £8 and after 2pm it is £5.
I have just phoned the Ringo app giving that location as if I am there right now and that confirms it is the above prices.
Surely they are just scamming people and if so how can they legally get away with this as surely it is fraud or they just hoping that people pay up in ignorance?
Just going to email my appeal to them now but this has really pee'd me off as I am always very careful and never had a ticket in 32 years driving.
This is from Smart Parking and shows a lovely photo of me car entering the car park at 08:26 and leaving at 13:39.
Ticket says that I have either "not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted"
This was from the LLanberis car park Snowdonia.
I paid £8 for all day parking (on my debit card so have proof) and also a photo of the sign which clearly states all day £8 and after 2pm it is £5.
I have just phoned the Ringo app giving that location as if I am there right now and that confirms it is the above prices.
Surely they are just scamming people and if so how can they legally get away with this as surely it is fraud or they just hoping that people pay up in ignorance?
Just going to email my appeal to them now but this has really pee'd me off as I am always very careful and never had a ticket in 32 years driving.
There's obviously an issue between Ringo's records of who purchased a ticket, and the car park.
Double check your receipt is for the right carpark, and the right car. If it is, you have an easy appeal.
Given you were in the car park, I'm not sure how its a scam. A scam would be sending you tickets for Lands End when you were in LLanberis
Double check your receipt is for the right carpark, and the right car. If it is, you have an easy appeal.
Given you were in the car park, I'm not sure how its a scam. A scam would be sending you tickets for Lands End when you were in LLanberis
randlemarcus said:
There's obviously an issue between Ringo's records of who purchased a ticket, and the car park.
Double check your receipt is for the right carpark, and the right car. If it is, you have an easy appeal.
Given you were in the car park, I'm not sure how its a scam. A scam would be sending you tickets for Lands End when you were in LLanberis
I din't use Ringo that day. I bought and displayed a ticket, paid for by card.Double check your receipt is for the right carpark, and the right car. If it is, you have an easy appeal.
Given you were in the car park, I'm not sure how its a scam. A scam would be sending you tickets for Lands End when you were in LLanberis
I just used Ringo right now as if I was parking there today to confirm the price which confirms that my £8 ticket entitled me to all day parking.
nessiemac said:
I din't use Ringo that day. I bought and displayed a ticket, paid for by card.
I just used Ringo right now as if I was parking there today to confirm the price which confirms that my £8 ticket entitled me to all day parking.
SO which bit of "not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted" leads you to think they are accusing you of buying the wrong ticket. I can't see this being a big money spinner if they only send the demand for payment to folks with the right tickets.I just used Ringo right now as if I was parking there today to confirm the price which confirms that my £8 ticket entitled me to all day parking.
It sounds like a badly run company with lax processes. Perhaps not a big surprise given the industry, but not the basis of fraud accusations.
randlemarcus said:
SO which bit of "not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted" leads you to think they are accusing you of buying the wrong ticket. I can't see this being a big money spinner if they only send the demand for payment to folks with the right tickets.
It sounds like a badly run company with lax processes. Perhaps not a big surprise given the industry, but not the basis of fraud accusations.
Ok, maybe fraud is a bit much!It sounds like a badly run company with lax processes. Perhaps not a big surprise given the industry, but not the basis of fraud accusations.
But they know I paid for an all day ticket but still sent me the parking charge.
Do I just appeal now through their own online process?
nessiemac said:
randlemarcus said:
SO which bit of "not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted" leads you to think they are accusing you of buying the wrong ticket. I can't see this being a big money spinner if they only send the demand for payment to folks with the right tickets.
It sounds like a badly run company with lax processes. Perhaps not a big surprise given the industry, but not the basis of fraud accusations.
Ok, maybe fraud is a bit much!It sounds like a badly run company with lax processes. Perhaps not a big surprise given the industry, but not the basis of fraud accusations.
But they know I paid for an all day ticket but still sent me the parking charge.
Do I just appeal now through their own online process?
randlemarcus said:
There's obviously an issue between Ringo's records of who purchased a ticket, and the car park.
Double check your receipt is for the right carpark, and the right car. If it is, you have an easy appeal.
Given you were in the car park, I'm not sure how its a scam. A scam would be sending you tickets for Lands End when you were in LLanberis
Double check your receipt is for the right carpark, and the right car. If it is, you have an easy appeal.
Given you were in the car park, I'm not sure how its a scam. A scam would be sending you tickets for Lands End when you were in LLanberis
How do they know you bought the correct ticket? They may be asserting they could not see a ticket on your car.
The debit card transaction may not be a slam dunk for your defence as it is unlikely to show the location.
Do you still have the ticket?
Regardless of who is correct (and let's assume it's you), at this point they assert you didn't pay and you assert you did. What can you prove to support your case?
If they clarify that the ticket is for overstaying then you should be on safer ground as the value of your transaction with the acceptance of the existence of a ticket should prove you paid for the whole day.
Unfortunately at this point the onus is on you to prove your innocence. It isn't right, but that's where it is.
The debit card transaction may not be a slam dunk for your defence as it is unlikely to show the location.
Do you still have the ticket?
Regardless of who is correct (and let's assume it's you), at this point they assert you didn't pay and you assert you did. What can you prove to support your case?
If they clarify that the ticket is for overstaying then you should be on safer ground as the value of your transaction with the acceptance of the existence of a ticket should prove you paid for the whole day.
Unfortunately at this point the onus is on you to prove your innocence. It isn't right, but that's where it is.
nessiemac said:
Just opened my mail to find a parking charge notice from North Wales 3 weeks ago.
This is from Smart Parking and shows a lovely photo of me car entering the car park at 08:26 and leaving at 13:39.
Ticket says that I have either "not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted"
This was from the LLanberis car park Snowdonia.
I paid £8 for all day parking (on my debit card so have proof) and also a photo of the sign which clearly states all day £8 and after 2pm it is £5.
I have just phoned the Ringo app giving that location as if I am there right now and that confirms it is the above prices.
Surely they are just scamming people and if so how can they legally get away with this as surely it is fraud or they just hoping that people pay up in ignorance?
Just going to email my appeal to them now but this has really pee'd me off as I am always very careful and never had a ticket in 32 years driving.
Do you have more than one car? My daughter paid for my car parking on her app, the cameras generated a fine because they didn’t see her car reg, they saw mine, could be similar?This is from Smart Parking and shows a lovely photo of me car entering the car park at 08:26 and leaving at 13:39.
Ticket says that I have either "not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted"
This was from the LLanberis car park Snowdonia.
I paid £8 for all day parking (on my debit card so have proof) and also a photo of the sign which clearly states all day £8 and after 2pm it is £5.
I have just phoned the Ringo app giving that location as if I am there right now and that confirms it is the above prices.
Surely they are just scamming people and if so how can they legally get away with this as surely it is fraud or they just hoping that people pay up in ignorance?
Just going to email my appeal to them now but this has really pee'd me off as I am always very careful and never had a ticket in 32 years driving.
PhilboSE said:
How do they know you bought the correct ticket? They may be asserting they could not see a ticket on your car.
The debit card transaction may not be a slam dunk for your defence as it is unlikely to show the location.
Do you still have the ticket?
Regardless of who is correct (and let's assume it's you), at this point they assert you didn't pay and you assert you did. What can you prove to support your case?
If they clarify that the ticket is for overstaying then you should be on safer ground as the value of your transaction with the acceptance of the existence of a ticket should prove you paid for the whole day.
Unfortunately at this point the onus is on you to prove your innocence. It isn't right, but that's where it is.
Surely the onus is on them to prove I didn't buy the correct ticket? The debit card transaction may not be a slam dunk for your defence as it is unlikely to show the location.
Do you still have the ticket?
Regardless of who is correct (and let's assume it's you), at this point they assert you didn't pay and you assert you did. What can you prove to support your case?
If they clarify that the ticket is for overstaying then you should be on safer ground as the value of your transaction with the acceptance of the existence of a ticket should prove you paid for the whole day.
Unfortunately at this point the onus is on you to prove your innocence. It isn't right, but that's where it is.
The only proof I have is my card transaction.
Ticket is long gone as it was 3 weeks ago and the parking notice is for not purchasing the correct time etc not not not displaying a ticket.
TTmonkey said:
Do you have more than one car? My daughter paid for my car parking on her app, the cameras generated a fine because they didn’t see her car reg, they saw mine, could be similar?
The car reg is correct as per their photos. I'm not disputing I parked there just disputing that the £8 I paid with my card entitled me to park all day as per their own signs and the ringo app.
nessiemac said:
TTmonkey said:
Do you have more than one car? My daughter paid for my car parking on her app, the cameras generated a fine because they didn’t see her car reg, they saw mine, could be similar?
The car reg is correct as per their photos. I'm not disputing I parked there just disputing that the £8 I paid with my card entitled me to park all day as per their own signs and the ringo app.
Only three things make sense.
1. They have failed to connect your transaction to your parking stay, due to an systems error.
2. Their systems genuinely show no payment, for the registration number on the car concerned,
3. They have miss-read your registration number on the camera, and failed to check the photo, before sending out payments.
All three are contenders.
Hol said:
Was it one of those systems, where you have to select a registration number, when paying?
Only three things make sense.
1. They have failed to connect your transaction to your parking stay, due to an systems error.
2. Their systems genuinely show no payment, for the registration number on the car concerned,
3. They have miss-read your registration number on the camera, and failed to check the photo, before sending out payments.
All three are contenders.
Pretty sure you had to input your number plate yep.Only three things make sense.
1. They have failed to connect your transaction to your parking stay, due to an systems error.
2. Their systems genuinely show no payment, for the registration number on the car concerned,
3. They have miss-read your registration number on the camera, and failed to check the photo, before sending out payments.
All three are contenders.
Do I just appeal on their website or do I have to go through any other way to cover myself?
nessiemac said:
This is the reason below...
"not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted!
It's possible that "not purchased the appropriate parking time" covers the no ticket situation and that "remained in the car park longer than permitted" covers the not paid enough situation. Not 100% clear though."not purchased the appropriate parking time or remained in the car park longer than permitted!
If the latter then if they accept you had a ticket then your (provable) transaction value should support your case.
If the former then it's their word against yours.
Did they supply any photographs, or can you access any online? If you can see a ticket in their photos then it supports your case (though does not prove it as the ticket detail is unlikely to be visible).
Don't get outraged at the injustice of it. Just work out the best way forward for you. You can go to appeal and assert you paid, supported by your transaction. If they don't accept this then you need to decide whether you want to challenge them until
a) you give up and pay
b) they give up and stop issuing invoices
c) they take you to court where you have your day
I must admit given the increasing frequency of "invoices" being issued weeks after any reasonable person has disposed of the ticket, I've taken to using the apps to pay as they retain the evidence of payment.
Equally, where there has been a mistake (such as when a pay machine keypad had a dodgy key and wouldn't let me enter the correct registration) I've found that the parking companies have cancelled the invoice at appeal. Present your evidence and see what they say.
Is the car registered to you, or a lease company/employer?
Assuming it's registered to you, and that the Notice to Keeper they've sent arrived with you 3 weeks after the car was parked there, then you should also appeal on the basis that it's too late to hold you liable as keeper and that they can only pursue the driver - who, of course, you won't be naming.
Also, your name sounds Scottish - is your address in Scotland? If so, they also can't hold you liable as the Protection of Freedoms Act doesn't apply north of the border (regardless of where you parked), which would be another reason they should only be pursuing the driver.
I know that some people on here will suggest that it's a "loophole", but it isn't - and you're far more likely to get the charge cancelled on the basis that the NTK was late than by telling them that you bought a ticket that covered the required parking period. Quite simply, the parking company think you didn't buy/display the ticket and they're not going to back down without a fight because, as you've said, they make a lot of mistakes and don't seem too bothered by it.
Assuming it's registered to you, and that the Notice to Keeper they've sent arrived with you 3 weeks after the car was parked there, then you should also appeal on the basis that it's too late to hold you liable as keeper and that they can only pursue the driver - who, of course, you won't be naming.
Also, your name sounds Scottish - is your address in Scotland? If so, they also can't hold you liable as the Protection of Freedoms Act doesn't apply north of the border (regardless of where you parked), which would be another reason they should only be pursuing the driver.
I know that some people on here will suggest that it's a "loophole", but it isn't - and you're far more likely to get the charge cancelled on the basis that the NTK was late than by telling them that you bought a ticket that covered the required parking period. Quite simply, the parking company think you didn't buy/display the ticket and they're not going to back down without a fight because, as you've said, they make a lot of mistakes and don't seem too bothered by it.
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