What am I getting into with an entry-level Vantage?
Discussion
I've heard the "definition of an optimist - the person who thinks they can just about run a secondhand Aston" mentioned a few times. I've read countless owner reviews and watched many YouTube videos.
I think the V8 Vantage is quite possibly one of the best-looking cars of recent decades and it's an itch that I would love to scratch. However, I am by no means "well-off" - Although £25k - £30k isn't a lot for an early 4.3 Vantage, it is an awful lot of money for me, so I don't want to get into something that is going to kill the ownership experience.
I have no problem spending a few quid looking after a car properly - a couple of grand a year would be quite acceptable and it would almost certainly be maintained through the independents rather than the main dealer network. However, the thought of a five grand + bill worries me, so buying wisely is clearly important.
I have an impending job change in early 2021, and there's a chance that the new job will involve quite a lot of miles. In this case, I'll probably go for a BWM 640D and the Aston idea will go on the back-burner. However, if I carry on with my current working from home with occasional office visits, then I can see that a Vantage could work.
From what I've read, they seem to be pretty robust, with a few well-known and well-documented niggles and occasional big bills (clutch?).
I've seen a handful of Vantages in the various classified in the £25k - £28k region and some of them have been up for sale for several months, which leads me to believe they are either over-priced or there's an issue (or potential issue). If they were decent, surely they would have sold already?
For reference, I have a 12 year old Alfa with a quarter of a million miles on it as a daily, a 21 year old turbo-nutter Fiat Coupe for speed kicks and a 16 year old Westfield for tinkering and sunny Sunday blasts. Getting under the bonnet definitely doesn't worry me. The Fiat is up for sale and the Alfa would probably get relegated to a family pool car (nobody would buy it with the mileage that's on it, so it might as well be kept as a spare in case it's needed).
So - to my question. Is an entry-level (c. £25k) V8 Vantage a true Brave Pill and a huge financial catastrophe waiting to happen, or is it simply a case of treating it like it is - a 15 year old car that simply needs a more hands-on approach to ownership and a specialist maintenance regime?
I think the V8 Vantage is quite possibly one of the best-looking cars of recent decades and it's an itch that I would love to scratch. However, I am by no means "well-off" - Although £25k - £30k isn't a lot for an early 4.3 Vantage, it is an awful lot of money for me, so I don't want to get into something that is going to kill the ownership experience.
I have no problem spending a few quid looking after a car properly - a couple of grand a year would be quite acceptable and it would almost certainly be maintained through the independents rather than the main dealer network. However, the thought of a five grand + bill worries me, so buying wisely is clearly important.
I have an impending job change in early 2021, and there's a chance that the new job will involve quite a lot of miles. In this case, I'll probably go for a BWM 640D and the Aston idea will go on the back-burner. However, if I carry on with my current working from home with occasional office visits, then I can see that a Vantage could work.
From what I've read, they seem to be pretty robust, with a few well-known and well-documented niggles and occasional big bills (clutch?).
I've seen a handful of Vantages in the various classified in the £25k - £28k region and some of them have been up for sale for several months, which leads me to believe they are either over-priced or there's an issue (or potential issue). If they were decent, surely they would have sold already?
For reference, I have a 12 year old Alfa with a quarter of a million miles on it as a daily, a 21 year old turbo-nutter Fiat Coupe for speed kicks and a 16 year old Westfield for tinkering and sunny Sunday blasts. Getting under the bonnet definitely doesn't worry me. The Fiat is up for sale and the Alfa would probably get relegated to a family pool car (nobody would buy it with the mileage that's on it, so it might as well be kept as a spare in case it's needed).
So - to my question. Is an entry-level (c. £25k) V8 Vantage a true Brave Pill and a huge financial catastrophe waiting to happen, or is it simply a case of treating it like it is - a 15 year old car that simply needs a more hands-on approach to ownership and a specialist maintenance regime?
Edited by Nigel_O on Saturday 30th July 15:25
Interesting......I've been considering something similar. I've looked at those bottom-end cars and tbh nothing immediately put me off but...I do have the option to spend more and as this will probably be my only AM ownership experience I'll probably delve in to the dealer/specialist market place to get some peace of mind.
Of course, the counter is I could get a bargain and have the funds to put right a big ticket item
Only other issue is that I think I'm swayed towards a 4.7
Of course, the counter is I could get a bargain and have the funds to put right a big ticket item
Only other issue is that I think I'm swayed towards a 4.7
Same as any used car of that age, the history is everything. Then check all the consumables, which if they all fall due in a 12 month period can be a couple of grand, pretty much like any premium car.
Running costs are well documented on here, just search, comes up every week or two. Couple of grand a year on average should be enough. Just make sure its had a clutch when needed, would be a bonus if its had an upgraded twin plate fitted.
For £25k car I cant think of anything else that compares.
Running costs are well documented on here, just search, comes up every week or two. Couple of grand a year on average should be enough. Just make sure its had a clutch when needed, would be a bonus if its had an upgraded twin plate fitted.
For £25k car I cant think of anything else that compares.
I'd agree with bogie's view. These are pretty robust sports cars, the 'sports' tag meaning you can expect to get through tyres and fuel at a good rate, because you'll want to drive it enthusiastically.
The clutch is the only concern, single plate clutches last between 5k-65k miles, depending on how they are driven. Yes the range really is that wide. They cost around £3.5k to replace, but for an extra £500 or so you can have a twin-plate clutch that will last forever (or at least, that's what I'm hoping)
The clutch is the only concern, single plate clutches last between 5k-65k miles, depending on how they are driven. Yes the range really is that wide. They cost around £3.5k to replace, but for an extra £500 or so you can have a twin-plate clutch that will last forever (or at least, that's what I'm hoping)
Budget for a new twin-plate clutch if you don't have evidence of it having been done lately (haggle some of that into any purchase price). Reckon on around £700 pa for a service, and to be honest there shouldn't be much else really.
Of course there will always be odds and sods and general consumables, but thankfully stories of serious issues are very few and far between. Buy on condition and service history, don't get hung up on mileage. For me, if there are nasty gaps or a strange smell with the history then i'd walk walk. If you can turn a spanner then a lot of the stuff you can do yourself, disks, pads the odd sensor etc.
These are very robust cars but only if they're been looked after. If there's any hint that a car you look at hasn't been, walk away.
Other than that, get looking and join the fold
Of course there will always be odds and sods and general consumables, but thankfully stories of serious issues are very few and far between. Buy on condition and service history, don't get hung up on mileage. For me, if there are nasty gaps or a strange smell with the history then i'd walk walk. If you can turn a spanner then a lot of the stuff you can do yourself, disks, pads the odd sensor etc.
These are very robust cars but only if they're been looked after. If there's any hint that a car you look at hasn't been, walk away.
Other than that, get looking and join the fold
Well this is exactly the risk I took myself a few months back. My conclusions are....
I found a few utterly useless sellers! How they ever sell a car is beyond me! Those cars are still for sale today. I suspect they make their money elsewhere! Wink!
You will have to make some compromise between mileage, condition, number of owners, spec etc but it is totally possible to get a very nice V8V for £25-28k. £30k get main dealer warranty but not mega low miles also, these will be £30k+
I decided to take the gamble on a private sale and got bitten to the tune of a rear shock and two tyres that had cracked with age and I’d not noticed. This cost me the money I had negotiated off the asking price so I can forgive myself!
My compromise was that mine had low miles, clear rear lights, “S“ wheels and N400 sills but the front bumper is well peppered and the rear bumper has the well reported distortion. I love the look of the upgraded parts so will spend money on paint later this year.
As you say OP, the money the car cost represents a lot of money to me also and I can honestly say if you want an absolute minter then you need to shop at £30k. But........ £25k and change bought me an absolutely stunning car that I can forgive it’s faults and enjoy and improve in my own time that should never owe me more than its worth.
Happy hunting! You will love it!!!
I found a few utterly useless sellers! How they ever sell a car is beyond me! Those cars are still for sale today. I suspect they make their money elsewhere! Wink!
You will have to make some compromise between mileage, condition, number of owners, spec etc but it is totally possible to get a very nice V8V for £25-28k. £30k get main dealer warranty but not mega low miles also, these will be £30k+
I decided to take the gamble on a private sale and got bitten to the tune of a rear shock and two tyres that had cracked with age and I’d not noticed. This cost me the money I had negotiated off the asking price so I can forgive myself!
My compromise was that mine had low miles, clear rear lights, “S“ wheels and N400 sills but the front bumper is well peppered and the rear bumper has the well reported distortion. I love the look of the upgraded parts so will spend money on paint later this year.
As you say OP, the money the car cost represents a lot of money to me also and I can honestly say if you want an absolute minter then you need to shop at £30k. But........ £25k and change bought me an absolutely stunning car that I can forgive it’s faults and enjoy and improve in my own time that should never owe me more than its worth.
Happy hunting! You will love it!!!
Agree with what's said regarding early Vantage V8. I've had 3 AMs and nothing more than niggles here. From the earliest to the latest they are pretty robust and supreme British fun.
Man maths and buying justification are always hard to rationalise when the car just looks and sounds so damned good but go to look armed with all the facts and you should be absolutely fine.
I recognise your surroundings Paul. The car looks bloody lovely.
Man maths and buying justification are always hard to rationalise when the car just looks and sounds so damned good but go to look armed with all the facts and you should be absolutely fine.
I recognise your surroundings Paul. The car looks bloody lovely.
Thanks for all the replies chaps - keep them coming. I'm especially interested to hear ownership experiences from anybody that has purchased at the "cheap" end
I've read about the cost of a clutch - I spend about £700 on a Helix organic single-plate clutch for my Fiat, plus the labour to fit - £3.5k is quite eye-watering and clearly something that I'll be looking for
I've spent almost 20 years taking a succession of Italian stuff to a specialist garage, so I know the benefits they can bring. I really don't mind the lack of a clean, shiny workshop floor if it halves the labour rate. I also find that a good specialist can know more about the main dealers, simply because they can find ways to complete work without following the factory instructions to the letter. I can accept that many jobs will need a specialist's experience, but is "routine" maintenance possible at a non-specialist? eg, oil, filters, brakes etc
It occurs to me that a specialist inspection will be invaluable - it will either confirm the car to be sound, or it will unearth bargaining points - either way, its probably worth the money.
Final question for now - in addition the the hefty bill for a clutch, are there any other big-ticket items I should look out for - brakes, suspension, any corrosion points etc? I've done a fair bit of reading and it looks like there's nothing major, but as usual, the people to ask are the owners and not the dealers....
I've read about the cost of a clutch - I spend about £700 on a Helix organic single-plate clutch for my Fiat, plus the labour to fit - £3.5k is quite eye-watering and clearly something that I'll be looking for
I've spent almost 20 years taking a succession of Italian stuff to a specialist garage, so I know the benefits they can bring. I really don't mind the lack of a clean, shiny workshop floor if it halves the labour rate. I also find that a good specialist can know more about the main dealers, simply because they can find ways to complete work without following the factory instructions to the letter. I can accept that many jobs will need a specialist's experience, but is "routine" maintenance possible at a non-specialist? eg, oil, filters, brakes etc
It occurs to me that a specialist inspection will be invaluable - it will either confirm the car to be sound, or it will unearth bargaining points - either way, its probably worth the money.
Final question for now - in addition the the hefty bill for a clutch, are there any other big-ticket items I should look out for - brakes, suspension, any corrosion points etc? I've done a fair bit of reading and it looks like there's nothing major, but as usual, the people to ask are the owners and not the dealers....
leman600 said:
I recognise your surroundings Paul. The car looks bloody lovely.
Thank very much! That pic was a couple of weeks back in the heat wave. We had headed towards the coast from Norwich to get some cooler air.
Once I’d seen this car with the updated bits on I knew whichever car I ended up with would have them fitted in the end.
Nigel_O said:
Thanks " end
...... I've read about the cost of a clutch - I spend about £700 on a Helix organic single-plate clutch for my Fiat, plus the labour to fit - £3.5k is quite eye-watering and clearly something that I'll be looking for
I've spent almost 20 years taking a succession of Italian stuff to a specialist garage, so I know the benefits they can bring. ......
...... I've read about the cost of a clutch - I spend about £700 on a Helix organic single-plate clutch for my Fiat, plus the labour to fit - £3.5k is quite eye-watering and clearly something that I'll be looking for
I've spent almost 20 years taking a succession of Italian stuff to a specialist garage, so I know the benefits they can bring. ......
I expect you know why clutch replacement is more expensive than the norm.
One way of obtaining that wonderful (almost) 50:50 weight balance is having a rear gearbox. The engine and gearbox are then connected by a hefty alloy casting. Therefore to change the clutch involves much more dismantling, than is needed for a more conventional layout.
Talking of workshop expertise. You might even find a specialist, who was a development engineer on the Aston Martin V8 engine.
Ive been running an 06 Vantage for 12 years as my daily driver. It's still rock solid and pretty easy on the pocket. 75,000 miles and no dramas. Two batteries one clutch and the inevitable rear tail lights.
The engine on the 4.3 is unstressed and pretty much bullet proof. Nothing to touch it for the money and still turns heads. Go for it!
The engine on the 4.3 is unstressed and pretty much bullet proof. Nothing to touch it for the money and still turns heads. Go for it!
Dewi 2 said:
Nigel_O said:
Thanks " end
...... I've read about the cost of a clutch - I spend about £700 on a Helix organic single-plate clutch for my Fiat, plus the labour to fit - £3.5k is quite eye-watering and clearly something that I'll be looking for
I've spent almost 20 years taking a succession of Italian stuff to a specialist garage, so I know the benefits they can bring. ......
...... I've read about the cost of a clutch - I spend about £700 on a Helix organic single-plate clutch for my Fiat, plus the labour to fit - £3.5k is quite eye-watering and clearly something that I'll be looking for
I've spent almost 20 years taking a succession of Italian stuff to a specialist garage, so I know the benefits they can bring. ......
I expect you know why clutch replacement is more expensive than the norm.
One way of obtaining that wonderful (almost) 50:50 weight balance is having a rear gearbox. The engine and gearbox are then connected by a hefty alloy casting. Therefore to change the clutch involves much more dismantling, than is needed for a more conventional layout.
Talking of workshop expertise. You might even find a specialist, who was a development engineer on the Aston Martin V8 engine.
...modern Lambo clutches are £3500-£5500 and you dont hear of many of those lasting more than 15k miles......Audi V8 clutches at main dealers can be £4500 and shorter life span than Aston. Clutch costs seem to be one of the larger parts of running a premium car with a big engine.
Edited by bogie on Thursday 3rd September 08:53
Although not cheap as % value of cars we are talking here he clutch on AM Vantage isn't some sort of unusually prone piece of chocolate the usual clutch checks at purchase should tell you what you need to know. If in doubt walk away.
It's a big engine but as others will keep saying the torque isn't as high as some similar cars so....
If driven normally/spiritedly/enjoyably then its certainly not necessarily a disaster just around the corner.
I'm talking manuals here. Sportshift probably quite similar but may be easier to misunderstand clutch sympathy by previous owners?
It's a big engine but as others will keep saying the torque isn't as high as some similar cars so....
If driven normally/spiritedly/enjoyably then its certainly not necessarily a disaster just around the corner.
I'm talking manuals here. Sportshift probably quite similar but may be easier to misunderstand clutch sympathy by previous owners?
Nigel_O said:
So - to my question. Is an entry-level (c. £25k) V8 Vantage a true Brave Pill and a huge financial catastrophe waiting to happen, or is it simply a case of treating it like it is - a 15 year old car that simply needs a more hands-on approach to ownership and a specialist maintenance regime?
Morning Nigel. Perhaps this is becoming a FCCUKer thing - I bought this last month:
Not a V8V of course (I've got/had too many V8s, had to raise the bar a little!) but I guess the approach to ownership is similar. I bought mine from a well-known PHer who very generously lent it to me for a month so that I could appraise and decide whether I wanted to buy. During that time I spotted a few issues and we came to an agreement on how much of that he would put right before I paid for it, so it went into HWM to have those addressed.
You have to be philosophical about these things at this age & price point; it's an older premium, specialist vehicle and you're not going to find many spares for it in Halfords. On the other hand, much like the Fiats, there is a raft of knowledge and specialists out there who we can turn to if necessary. For example, the thread on here with all the equivalent parts where you can buy the same item without an AM carrier bag for far less.
I'm relaxed about it. I don't especially want to flush the value of the car away, but I recognise that in the unlikely event of a massive component failure, eg engine, that might be necessary. Odds are it won't come to that. I've no idea at present how long I'll keep it, and I know it'll cost me more money to run than some other cars but life's too short to drive boring cars anyway!
Still got both the Mooners btw! I have now officially run out of car and bike space at home so unless I rent storage somewhere I simply cannot buy anything else no matter what!
I had the same questions 5 years ago. I bought one, kept it 4 years and loved it (most of the time). In fact, I'm tentatively shopping for another car now - although probably won't seriously look until winter - and another early Vantage is one of the cars I'm considering.
I kept a running report which should give you a decent real world ownership experience :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I kept a running report which should give you a decent real world ownership experience :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff