Anyone owned both a 993 and 997?
Discussion
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's owned both, in particular at the same time.
How did they compare, does the 997 feel like a traditional 911 (ie air cooled) with the edges softened and a better all rounder, or does it feel worlds apart.
I'm comparing base Carrera's in both cases, so not RS/GT3 etc.
Cheers for any insight
PS appreciate you can simply test drive, but my experience is that 911's are far more of a slow burner/grower.
How did they compare, does the 997 feel like a traditional 911 (ie air cooled) with the edges softened and a better all rounder, or does it feel worlds apart.
I'm comparing base Carrera's in both cases, so not RS/GT3 etc.
Cheers for any insight
PS appreciate you can simply test drive, but my experience is that 911's are far more of a slow burner/grower.
Well, I had a gen 2 997 C2 PDK Carrera, sold it, and got a 993 C2 manual coupe. Not owned at the same time, but back to back.
Of course some things don't change - the traction with the weight over the rear wheels for example.
However, a 1995 air cooled is a very different feel to a 2011 997.2; it's much, much more engaging. The driving experience makes you feel far more involved; manual gear changes, the noise is way, way better, the whole car feels more alive and connected than with the 997. There's an oily smell about an air cooled, the steering is heavy, you don't have proper traction control, and there's no tech to distract you.
The 997 was much faster than the 993 on paper, but on normal UK roads you can't safely use much beyond 250 bhp in my opinion. In the real world the 993 is just as fast - not on a track though.
My feeling is this: you "pilot" a 997, whereas you "drive" a 993. Plus the 993 is prettier, and, well, it's a bit of a classic. And rising in value.
If you're using it every day, the 997 is the better car. But if you want to really connect with your drive, and you like to concentrate and focus, then it's 993 all the way.
Just my humble opinion you understand.
Of course some things don't change - the traction with the weight over the rear wheels for example.
However, a 1995 air cooled is a very different feel to a 2011 997.2; it's much, much more engaging. The driving experience makes you feel far more involved; manual gear changes, the noise is way, way better, the whole car feels more alive and connected than with the 997. There's an oily smell about an air cooled, the steering is heavy, you don't have proper traction control, and there's no tech to distract you.
The 997 was much faster than the 993 on paper, but on normal UK roads you can't safely use much beyond 250 bhp in my opinion. In the real world the 993 is just as fast - not on a track though.
My feeling is this: you "pilot" a 997, whereas you "drive" a 993. Plus the 993 is prettier, and, well, it's a bit of a classic. And rising in value.
If you're using it every day, the 997 is the better car. But if you want to really connect with your drive, and you like to concentrate and focus, then it's 993 all the way.
Just my humble opinion you understand.
I had a 997.1 c2s from new, a 993 c4 and currently have a 993 c2.
They are all very different cars and although it’s an obvious thing to say, it all depends what you want it for.
The 997 was a fabulous everyday car that I used for the commute, holiday trips and I even managed to cook the brakes on a track day!
The 993 is much more of a car that grows on you and you have to learn how to get the most of. My current 993 is a non varioram, so is the least powerful of the 3 but it’s lower gearing and weight compared to my previous c4 makes it a more involving drive, but it’s not a car to sit in traffic or crawling along in town. These thrive on using the revs and fantastic handling. Definitely the choice for an early Sunday morning blast just for the hell of it. Of course there is the little matter of cost, a 997 will necessarily be significantly cheaper to buy and so long the dreaded bore wear or IMS bearing doesn’t get you, it should be cheaper to run as well!
They are all very different cars and although it’s an obvious thing to say, it all depends what you want it for.
The 997 was a fabulous everyday car that I used for the commute, holiday trips and I even managed to cook the brakes on a track day!
The 993 is much more of a car that grows on you and you have to learn how to get the most of. My current 993 is a non varioram, so is the least powerful of the 3 but it’s lower gearing and weight compared to my previous c4 makes it a more involving drive, but it’s not a car to sit in traffic or crawling along in town. These thrive on using the revs and fantastic handling. Definitely the choice for an early Sunday morning blast just for the hell of it. Of course there is the little matter of cost, a 997 will necessarily be significantly cheaper to buy and so long the dreaded bore wear or IMS bearing doesn’t get you, it should be cheaper to run as well!
I have owned a 993s and now a 997.2 GT3.
I test drove various 997s after selling the 993, and the only version that had anything like the specialness of the 993 was a GT3.
I regret selling the 993, but I also enjoy the GT3.
Both cars demand your concentration. You know that feeling when you arrive after a short familiar journey, and you realise that you did the whole thing on autopilot ? This never happens in the GT3 because each journey is an event.
Just like the 993.
I test drove various 997s after selling the 993, and the only version that had anything like the specialness of the 993 was a GT3.
I regret selling the 993, but I also enjoy the GT3.
Both cars demand your concentration. You know that feeling when you arrive after a short familiar journey, and you realise that you did the whole thing on autopilot ? This never happens in the GT3 because each journey is an event.
Just like the 993.
Many thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
I've had the 993 12 years and utterly adore it, even after all this time I still feel like I'm learning to drive it.
Last year I bought an E92 M3 manual, it's a great car with an incredible engine but where I struggle is that you need to be pushing it (very hard) to get the best from it, most of the time bar the feeling of the V8 it feels fairly ordinary. The 993 on the other hand feels special at 5mph, so I was wondering if a 997.2 to replace the M3 at some point would be the way to go, plus I'd like some 911 in my everyday life. I've also considered a 981 Cayman, but S models are 997.2 money.
Appreciate they're two generations apart, and probably more like 4 or 5 in reality given the glacial speed at which Porsche progressed the 911 pre water cooling, but trying to understand if it could be the way to go.
Cheers
I've had the 993 12 years and utterly adore it, even after all this time I still feel like I'm learning to drive it.
Last year I bought an E92 M3 manual, it's a great car with an incredible engine but where I struggle is that you need to be pushing it (very hard) to get the best from it, most of the time bar the feeling of the V8 it feels fairly ordinary. The 993 on the other hand feels special at 5mph, so I was wondering if a 997.2 to replace the M3 at some point would be the way to go, plus I'd like some 911 in my everyday life. I've also considered a 981 Cayman, but S models are 997.2 money.
Appreciate they're two generations apart, and probably more like 4 or 5 in reality given the glacial speed at which Porsche progressed the 911 pre water cooling, but trying to understand if it could be the way to go.
Cheers
Had 2 variocam 993 C2 Manuals from new and also a 997.
The 993's were wonderful to drive and full of character. The 997 was also a great car. Easier to get to know and in my case much more reliable.
It is worth bearing in mind that 993's were manufactured during a period when Porsche was struggling financially and was not renowned for build quality or reliability. I had no problems with the engine or the excellent 6 speed manual gearbox on either of my 993's, but both were plagued with niggling bodywork and electrical faults that required frequent visits to the dealer. Two of the biggest problems were a squeaky bonded windscreen and a rattly glovebox. Despite many attempts at finding a solution both the OPC/their nearby Porsche approved bodyshop ended up admitting defeat.
I know such faults should be of lesser consequence in a sports car than in a luxury saloon. But they lessened the enjoyment of the car for many owners. Much was written about the windscreen problem e.g. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turbo-forum/307282... and some owners claimed to have found a solution.
Taken at face value, as the last of the aircooled 911's, a 993 can appear to be a very attractive investment. However my strong a advice to anyone contemplating a purchase would be to take the car for a long test drive over a variety of less than perfect surfaces. If everything feels and sounds fine, or you don't mind background squeaks and rattles then well and good. Otherwise stay well clear or be prepared to be faced with significant remedial expenses.
The 993's were wonderful to drive and full of character. The 997 was also a great car. Easier to get to know and in my case much more reliable.
It is worth bearing in mind that 993's were manufactured during a period when Porsche was struggling financially and was not renowned for build quality or reliability. I had no problems with the engine or the excellent 6 speed manual gearbox on either of my 993's, but both were plagued with niggling bodywork and electrical faults that required frequent visits to the dealer. Two of the biggest problems were a squeaky bonded windscreen and a rattly glovebox. Despite many attempts at finding a solution both the OPC/their nearby Porsche approved bodyshop ended up admitting defeat.
I know such faults should be of lesser consequence in a sports car than in a luxury saloon. But they lessened the enjoyment of the car for many owners. Much was written about the windscreen problem e.g. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turbo-forum/307282... and some owners claimed to have found a solution.
Taken at face value, as the last of the aircooled 911's, a 993 can appear to be a very attractive investment. However my strong a advice to anyone contemplating a purchase would be to take the car for a long test drive over a variety of less than perfect surfaces. If everything feels and sounds fine, or you don't mind background squeaks and rattles then well and good. Otherwise stay well clear or be prepared to be faced with significant remedial expenses.
Squeaky screens are a pain but most decent cars have had the screen refitted/replaced by someone who knows how to do it properly.
My 997 was the one with the most niggles and the quality of the paint finish was by far the worst.
Absolutely right to point out that the 993 is a sports car not a grand tourer so a little hardship is to expected imo
My 997 was the one with the most niggles and the quality of the paint finish was by far the worst.
Absolutely right to point out that the 993 is a sports car not a grand tourer so a little hardship is to expected imo
surtees said:
Had 2 variocam 993 C2 Manuals from new and also a 997.
The 993's were wonderful to drive and full of character. The 997 was also a great car. Easier to get to know and in my case much more reliable.
It is worth bearing in mind that 993's were manufactured during a period when Porsche was struggling financially and was not renowned for build quality or reliability. I had no problems with the engine or the excellent 6 speed manual gearbox on either of my 993's, but both were plagued with niggling bodywork and electrical faults that required frequent visits to the dealer. Two of the biggest problems were a squeaky bonded windscreen and a rattly glovebox. Despite many attempts at finding a solution both the OPC/their nearby Porsche approved bodyshop ended up admitting defeat.
I know such faults should be of lesser consequence in a sports car than in a luxury saloon. But they lessened the enjoyment of the car for many owners. Much was written about the windscreen problem e.g. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turbo-forum/307282... and some owners claimed to have found a solution.
Taken at face value, as the last of the aircooled 911's, a 993 can appear to be a very attractive investment. However my strong a advice to anyone contemplating a purchase would be to take the car for a long test drive over a variety of less than perfect surfaces. If everything feels and sounds fine, or you don't mind background squeaks and rattles then well and good. Otherwise stay well clear or be prepared to be faced with significant remedial expenses.
This makes for an interesting read. In all the years I've been around the Porsche community your comments appear to be the polar opposite of almost all, i.e. the 993's the last of the great air cooled, largely hand built, very reliable etc. However, your experience is clearly from when the cars were new so interesting to read.The 993's were wonderful to drive and full of character. The 997 was also a great car. Easier to get to know and in my case much more reliable.
It is worth bearing in mind that 993's were manufactured during a period when Porsche was struggling financially and was not renowned for build quality or reliability. I had no problems with the engine or the excellent 6 speed manual gearbox on either of my 993's, but both were plagued with niggling bodywork and electrical faults that required frequent visits to the dealer. Two of the biggest problems were a squeaky bonded windscreen and a rattly glovebox. Despite many attempts at finding a solution both the OPC/their nearby Porsche approved bodyshop ended up admitting defeat.
I know such faults should be of lesser consequence in a sports car than in a luxury saloon. But they lessened the enjoyment of the car for many owners. Much was written about the windscreen problem e.g. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turbo-forum/307282... and some owners claimed to have found a solution.
Taken at face value, as the last of the aircooled 911's, a 993 can appear to be a very attractive investment. However my strong a advice to anyone contemplating a purchase would be to take the car for a long test drive over a variety of less than perfect surfaces. If everything feels and sounds fine, or you don't mind background squeaks and rattles then well and good. Otherwise stay well clear or be prepared to be faced with significant remedial expenses.
As mentioned squeaky screens are still a bug bear, mine comes and goes often with a change in the weather. Teflon tap, new rubbers and someone with experience in fitting the screens is the key.
I still have access to both. Chalk and cheese but complimentary. 993 for weekends and high days/track days and 997 for fast touring long distance. Lots of similarities in the way they handle but 997 even C2S, C4S misses the mechanical NVH that makes the 993 so special. My 997 turbo like fast private jet. 993 a second world war fighter.
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